Am I sick?? -- Mods for Gen1 motors

[MadMaxx]

I've already got the craving for more ponies... am I sick in the head? Sheesh

Too much is never enough I guess hehe.

What are considered "entry level mods"? Smooth tubes and filters? I was also considering a new rear gear as well. Any recomendations for header/exhaust type? I want to hold out for Roe's Gen1 blower (plllleeeeeeeeeeeeeease make it!) hehe

Has anyone tried the BTR intake tubes? they look very nice..

MadMaxx

 

[treynor]

If you're sick for contemplating tubes & exhaust, then a number of list members (myself included) are terminal

Here's a spreadsheet I whipped together which plots mods vs cost for a number of different known packages. Although I compiled the list for gen-II cars, many of the options are applicable to your '96, albeit with somewhat different power outcomes.

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Modifications HP TQ Power Mods Cost (installed)
Stock '01 400 440 420 $0
Tubes & Filters 410 445 428 $100
Above + Catback 415 450 433 $1,500
Above + Headers & Cats 440 485 463 $4,500
Above + 1.7 rockers & lifters 460 500 480 $6,200
Above + heads & cam 525 535 530 $12,700
Roe S/C + full exhaust & 1.7s 545 585 565 $13,000
APEX Lethal 650 570 580 575 $18,000
DLM Stage 1 605 615 610 $22,000
DLM Stage 1+ 690 700 695 $27,000
DLM Stage 2+ 750 750 750 $35,000
LPE 725 620 630 625 $37,500

 

[joe117]

Max,
Here's what I think. Tubes and filters or even the 1.7 rockers will give you more power but not enough to feel. If you go to NO2 or a blower you will feel it but then you will have the problems of hooking up. If you solve the hooking up you will start busting things. If all you want is a hopped up Viper to show your buds and to drive on the street and do burnouts you can do that for sure but if you expect to get real power to the road then the engine mods are only a start. If you are going to drag race your car very much, even in stock form with stock drivetrain, you will probably break it to the tune of many K$. You will for sure use up the clutch. If you do most of your own work you might keep the cost down. The Viper is an expensive car to fix or to mod. I would say you could drag race a Vette for half the cost of a Viper. As for more power on the street, under full power my gen1 has enough poop to break loose without much warning in first or second gear and from what 've seen on this board that isn't unusual. It is hard to see how you could use an extra 150 hp when driving on the street for a Sunday drive even if you wanted to do a blast here and there to drive the cobwebs out. If you mod your car in any big way it will be worth less. How many folks will pay more for a Viper with a blower? How many folks will run from a car that look's like it has been raced or driven hard? I'm probably going to get a bunch of feedback from guys on this board who will say that they drag their Vipers with blowers and slicks and they never broke anything and that people are lined up to buy their car for double what it cost them. That might be the case but I think you will enjoy your Viper lots more if you leave it mostly stock. Of course I'm an old guy ;-) What do I know?

 

[MadMaxx]

I don't drag anymore, but I sure wouldn't use a car w/ an IRS to race build a cheap tube chasis E-body or GM f-body, maybe even a streetable GN if the price was right.

From my viper, I want pure streetability. I ran a blower on the street for many years, and in many cars. Both roots and centrifugal. I'm used to the stress involved in installing and maintaing a blown car. I'm not to worried about breaking anything in the viper, because i'm not looking to pull 700RWHP on a stock short block or anything. Just maybe 450rw for those spirited jaunts to the speed limit. I want a pure acceleration machine, so a screw style blower and gear seemed like the way to go. Not big on the juice, i'm more of a POD kinda guy.

If everyone was worried about "will someone buy my car if it's been modified" then supertuners wouldn't be in business I spent a TON of cash on my 95 TA (40K+ by the time I was done) but I had a solid 650RWHP platform. The car was sold to someone who wanted just that, and paid for it accordingly. Just because it had all that power didn't mean it was "tracked" or "raced". Quite the opposite, it was designed to be a street car. Engine so clean you could eat off of it

Now, i'm not looking to dump supertuner kinds of cash down, but I figure 6-8K should be enough to get me where I want to go. My only delima now is wether I should hold off on the mods on the RT (since it is kinda rare) and wait untill I buy a Coupe (as they seem to respond better to mods). Who knows, only time will tell. Can't touch the car for another 4 months anyway (decree by the Mrs.)

James

 

[ruckdr]

MadMaxx,
One modification, NOT to overlook is to install Door Poppers to electronically open the doors.
Go to the "Illustrated Upgrades", then select 'Door Solenoids'.
This is a must option on Gen 1 RT's, and the cost is, give or take, $50.00 for both doors, plus some installation time.
I put this mod on before any other, including tubes and filters.
Email me if you like.
Good luck,
Later,

 

[joe117]

Perhaps I'm wrong about the resale value of your Viper being hurt by big mods. I think that of the universe of potential buyers there is a small percentage who would want a Viper with any big mods. The Viper is the kind of car that isn't desireable by many of those who can afford it. Those who can pay for one are often more the Cad or MB types. Of those who can buy a Viper and want one, there are even fewer who would like one that has been modded to the point of no warranty available and no service manual for the Dodge tech to look at.
I guess the TA you mentioned is Trans Am? Hardly in the same ballpark as a Viper. If you paid $40k for the finished product I'm surprised that you could sell it for half that much.

 

[MadMaxx]

Anything moded, if it's viper or not, will never equal the sum of it's parts when selling.

One of my most famed rides was a 95 Trans-Am. Sported a 396" LT4 w/ a ATI P600B series (when they were still in development). Tons of money went into the car to get it to produce a solid 650RWHP on 11psi. Also dusted the first motor, hence the stroker LT4. LPE had a big hand in it to

While she wasn't the fastest car i've had, it was definetly the most street worthy. I sold it in the summer of 2000 w/ exactly 4,984 miles on it.

I didn't care about resale value at the time, and looking back, it still didn't matter. I'm the kind of guy who would modify a Hemi 'Cuda and think nothing of it. These cars are designed to RUN not to look at. The resto guys have there place, and i'm definely not one of them.


If your buying a car for it's holding of value, then I doubt a viper is the best ticket. Pick up a rare E-body 'vert and put it in the garage for 20 more years...


Any of the mods I have planed are removable w/o much of a trace if any. I doubt a "higher up" would even look at my car because of the miles and the fact that I actualy DRIVE the car than look at it.

Oh... and while the TA might have not been in the same ball park as a viper, she would lay down low 10's all day long and get 24mpg on the highway, got to love it. She was pure evil when you laid into it, it hurt.

MadMaxx

 

[joe117]

So why would a guy who builds $40k, 10 second, very streetable cars, be asking about things like smooth tubes and filters? I would think that you would know what kind of help you can get from things like that.

 

[MadMaxx]

Because every motor is different. If 1200$ rockers (yikes!) are only going to net a slight bump on the butt dyno, then whats the point? Just asking for the starting points, variations between venders, etc. etc. Hell, you can pick up .2ths in a GN with a paperclip.. every motor has it's tricks.

Not looking to start a flame war here, just wanted opinions from people who actualy modify their cars.

In a perfect world, we'd all have 10:1 comp 540" motors... some day *sigh*

James

 

[ruckdr]

Mad,
Oh, by the way, I forgot to mention that the Doop Pops will not add any HP !!
Later,

 

[MadMaxx]

Ummm.. ok ruckdr... hehe
but the stickers have to be worth alteast 5hp right?

MadMaxx

 

[99 R/T 10]

Just curious as to the cost of the cam and head package?

 

[joe117]

Tell some of the specs for the head/cam packsge that adds 100RWH to a gen1 car. What is the compression? If you have a dyno sheet let's see it. That sounds like a good mod for a guy who might need to go into the engine for the gen1 head gasket problem should it happen. That also sounds like quite a bit of power to gain and still have enough low end to be nice on the street. What's the total price? Anyone on this board have this?

 

[MadMaxx]

I've heard that the aftermarket cams affect the drivability alot... are these claims true? What kind of specs are we talking here? mild or wild?

One thing I love about SC... no emmisions laws.

MadMaxx

 

[viper spray]

Go with the NOS 5180 kit built for Gen. 1 vipers and a short throw shifter,exhaust system ,sticky tires,MSD or other good wires,180 degree thermostat , and tubes and filters. All the little things add up.