BTR Performance 9 Second Viper Dyno Sheet.........FEEL THE TORQUE!

[Tom Welch]

No words are needed here! other than the fact that this dyno sheet is 6 months old and we are making even more torque now! (working to put the actual picture here soon)

http://vca2.viperclub.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=2757

 

[J DAWG]

Here she is...

 

[HP]

At what RPM does each stage of NOS kick in, and does the 1st stage stay on
with the 2nd stage? Progressive controller? Direct port or smooth tubes?

 

[1TONY1]

My guess, second stage at 3200 rpm. Both stages on together. No controller. Smooth tubes.
Lets see.....what moves a car ???? TORQUE !!!

 

[HP]

Ok Tony, any spark retard other than that provided by the 2 temp sensor
manipulation.

 

[Torquemonster]

I guess that really is a TORQUEMONSTER!

That thing could pull a 28 wheeler!

 

[Tom Welch]

On this particular pull the first stage came on at WOT which I tend to start pulls at about 2800 RPM. The second stage was activated at about 3200 RPM. This results in a torque curve OVER 900 Rear Wheel that lasts for 900 RPM.

Torque is in excess of 800 Rear Wheel for the entire freakin pull! I have a more recent pull that I will post which is real EYE CANDY for torque freaks...969 RWTQ at 3000 RPM........I've got to find it..packed in the trailer still from the V-10 Nats.

HP,

No timing computer or progressive controller required. Air fuel ratio dictates available safe horsepower. This is NOT a direct port system, Nitrous is injected pre-throttle body as an added safety feature. I'm from the KISS school of racing technology.

Horsepower sells and looks good, but its the torque that gets the job done on race day!

Tom

P.S. For those who are wondering..this is a stock bottom end and has been making this kind of torque(over 900 rear wheel) for over 3 years with no ill effects. You can see dyno sheets on my website of this car during its growth over time.

 

[Gerald]

INCREDIBLE TOM!!!!

 

[garolittle]

Wow!

 

[J DAWG]

"Horsepower sells and looks good, but its the torque that gets the job done on race day!"

Very true.

 

[1TONY1]

Ok Tony, any spark retard other than that provided by the 2 temp sensor
manipulation.

Don't know HP. Those were just my guesses....pure speculation. Maybe Tom will enlighten us on the spark retard.

 

[Rich Detert]

Totally Awesome!
On the street or the track torque is what makes you win the race.
It's what really drives the car forward.
But now I think I feel inadequate with only 749 ft. lbs of torque at the rear wheels.

 

[Dr Roof]

Awesome Torque = 9 second passes!

 

[Marc Lublin]

Tom,
Shouldn't this thread be in the Dyno Results section? No flames, but wasn't it you complaining about this the other day?

 

[Tom Welch]

[******] Mark,

You sure are sharp!

Tom

 

[Larry Macedo]

BRAGGART!!!! LOL

 

[Tom Welch]

Just thought I'd bump this.....so you can see the torque again. Remember, this is a stock displacement engine and its making over;


800 Ft/lbs at 3000 rpm
900++ Ft/Lbs at 3200 RPM THRU 4200 rpm
960 Ft/Lbs PEAK Torque

And over 800 Ft/lbs for the ENTIRE DURATION of the pull.

Have a great day.

Tom

 

[Gerald]

Incredible again Tom!!!

 

[Tom Welch]

thanks Gerald......just taking Larry's advice and braggin a bit....LOL

 

[Torquemonster]

Subtle!

The only thing other than another NO2 engine that could create a curve like that would be a twin turbo setup - at MUCH greater cost... because they can spool in a heart beat once past critical flow mass. So your point is made....

That doesn't mean that a bunch of blown cars are not about to join you in the 9's club though so get ready to share the stage 'cause I suspect there's a few sc cars joining you soon

.....I know - you're still waiting

 

[Tom Welch]

I welcome them ALL with open arms!

Please keep in mind though, that this dyno sheet and our 9 second passes are produced from a Viper with only ONE POWER ADDER!

 

[Torquemonster]

"our 9 second passes are produced from a Viper with only ONE POWER ADDER!"

well.... excluding a top shelf blue-printing and rebuild of course

Surely you'd drop the pants of any motor making 900+rwtq and give it a good going over to make sure it was going to seal the power and stay alive?

 

[Tom Welch]

Torque,

Actually no. Nothing is "balanced and blueprinted" as a typical race engine build. We do periodically check cold cranking compression and leak down. Keep in mind that this engine has the same crankshaft securing system as the 426 hemi (crossbolting)and can withstand alot of power. Don't confuse high horsepower/torque with DETONATION. Detonation will beat the rod and main bearings out of a 300 hp engine. Take another peak at the air/fuel numbers on that pull. We don't take any chances with detonation.

Tom

 

[Torquemonster]

impressive bottom end to handle all that - so the stage 2 heads and cam were just there for the ride - not power adders?

 

[Tom Welch]

"power adders" is a loose term from VOI and the V-10 Nationals.

A power adder in my opinion is an item that is bolted onto the stock cubic inch powerplant.(Vipers or other cars equipped like mine are known as "heads and cam" cars......on top of that designation comes the plethra of "power adder" choices)

Take a look at most DLM or ROE (or anyone elses)cars making this kind of power and you will find all kinds of "engine internal enhancments" before the "power adders" are bolted on.

A few thoughts for you.........

A supercharger is then (1) power adder

A nitrous system is then (1) power adder

How many power adders is a TWIN TURBO??

How many power adders is an Intercooler and a Forced air system?

How many power adders is a stroked engine and a forced air or nitrous or combination of all of the above?

I think its gonna take Indiana Jones to correctly answer those questions........until then, I still believe that our single power adder set up on a stock cubic inch engine is among the TOP producers of the highest torque you can put on your Viper, regardless of price.

Tom

 

[Gerald]

Tom,
That is a tough one to think about. Here would be my 'outside' opinion, not that it matters..
An intercooler helps a S/C car obtain more HP, a intercooler alone is just about absurd.

A bottle heater helps the nitrous obtain more pressure for optimal performance, kind of like an intercooler???

....and so on.

Anything that could be considered modified from it's stock for I would think would be a power adder...

A cam is totally sep from a N20 system as are headers, different heads etc...

So I guess I would have 3 power adders
Supercharger
Headers
Headwork

Well, that's just me looking in as I don't drag race..

Gerald

 

[Torquemonster]

you indicated NO2 will beat anything no matter the cost!

I'll throw this in for fun - to build a Viper engine on twin turbo's making 1800hp and 1800ft/lbs and be streetable (in a pro street sense) would be a piece of cake.... I came up with the 494 cube 2500+ hp combo that ran 3000lbs to 6.8 sec at 208mph on Mopar wedge heads - we were the first in the world to do that on Indy Heads in an A-body heavy weight - so I know what can be done.

Trouble is at 1800hp on the street - you just couldn't drive that mother. You certainly wouldn't get me in it.

Every power adder has its pros and cons - if you want to talk ultimate - you couldn't come up with a NO2 engine that coudn't be out performed with Twin turbos or an efficient high boost blower setup (like a PSI). Ultimately you'd run out of ability to dial in NO2 long before we ran out of ability to pump in air. everything has its limits - so when the gloves come off - high boost will win once the car can use it.

Remember they tried turbos in Top Fuel - made much more power sooner - but no fuel system made could supply enough fuel to top them out - so back to blowers until fuel systems can be made to feed those hair driers. When you get up into serious boost - NO2 is history - the only problem is getting a street car to use it efficiently.

So what do you say about that?

grin

 

[Tom Welch]

Good points, both of you.

For torque,

You have gotten off of the subject of drivable vipers. I assume that the other 800 hp vipers are drivable cars. Roofs car as an example, seemed very mild mannered in the pits at BG. Also, I have not seen an 1800 hp Viper engine yet and most importantly......that won't sell.

As for Nitrous vs. forced air, thats an ongoing argument that I will leave to others. I will say though that there are alot of Nitrous cars running today in NHRA Pro Mod (your old class) and as a matter of fact, nitrous cars started that class......unless Im mistaken(and I've been an active NHRA member and SuperComp class license number holder and participant since 1983). Forced air has made its mark over the last 10 years in Pro Mod. They are all fun to watch, but I attribute them to an ice cream cone in the hot sun.........not gonna last long!

Back to the original posting of this dyno sheet.......957 rear wheel torque on a stock cubic inch Viper engine with a simple throttle body injection nitrous system has outran every forced air unit ever installed on a Viper to date........AT THE TRACK.

How about that? Not bragging, just enforcing a truth.....for the time being. Someone will get there soon Im sure.

Tom

 

[Torquemonster]

good answer!

You are of course right - but I would point out that in order for the nitrous guys to compete with the blower guys in Pro Mod - the nitrous cars can run a lot bigger engines and less weight typically - its not apples with apples. I've not seen a nitrous only car that can run the same cubes and weight and beat a full house blown car given both cars are built to same top spec and driven by good drivers. The blower cars run smaller engines to even it up. The problem the nitrous guys have is trying to pump in enough.... plus of course the odd fire and bang or two. But then in Pro Mod - blower belts often go as do burst panels.... grin... but the 6 second car I spoke of now runs whole seasons on no broken parts - that's pretty good for a car now running 6.6 and 60lb boost now weighing 2650lbs.

in the Viper world - nitrous is king at the track - as you say.... for now