Built motor update

[dipapa]

Hey All.

Just got back from some Built motor verification testing at A&C.

The Build motor has 2000 miles. Few weeks back I got a real bad header leak, no biggie... so I took it down to Todd for a looksy.

Ive heard the American Racing headers are not very plane and likely not internally stress relieved post fab cause the headers flange got real warped.

Anyway with header leak fixed and while at shop, figured it be a good time for a health check on the new built motor.. pull valve covers, inspected/changed plugs, changed couple fluids and such. Everything with motor looked ****!

We hit Todd's Dyno Dynamics again with the 2000 mile motor. The car has 76 station pump gas 91 octane in it.
Todd fidled with SCT tune just to see if any further hp could be extracted on 91 oct. tried leaning A/F and advancing/retarding timing however we ultimately went back to original August 2010 tune, same as when the build motor was brand new...the safe tune as well. Wideband was in tailpipe, no cats. I didnt want to push any further (lean any more, higher rpms) just to keep everything safe and sound.

Here couple dyno charts with a comparison of 8/10 vs 1/11 with 2000 miles on motor (SAE corrected on 91 oct).

[media]http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z387/dipapa/Viper%20Copperhead/vipergen3dyno1-7-10lowres.jpg[/media]

[media]http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z387/dipapa/Viper%20Copperhead/vipergen3dynocompare1-7-10lowres.jpg[/media]

 

[TrackAire]

Hmmm, with the few miles you had on the car, I'd really look at the actual header install as being the culprit. I've got over 3500 miles on mine with no problem. There is a sequence and specific way to install headers (torque, pattern, etc). What fasteners did you use for the install, which washers, etc??

How many miles did you have on the car since the rebuild and the header leak?

Nice numbers on the dyno

Let me know if you want to come out to Infineon to run the drags, lots of fun and you'd really get to feel your cars real potential. We've also got a bunch of autocrosses for 2011 too.

Cheers,
George

 

[dipapa]

This following information is coming from a vendor of American Racing Headers who sees them all with 2+mm flatness across the flange. And if that's +/- 2+ mm even worse. Not too good.

Although there was only a header leak on passenger side both flanges were shaved flat so unfortunately some material had to be removed.

Going to track to drag be great, however I had 3 lower back surgeries 4-5 years ago and i dont want to leave my vertebrae at the light!

 

[plumcrazy]

+ or - 2mm sounds like a lot to me.

wonder what the bellangers and M&M are ?

 

[mbccenter]

That is why we run the thickest flang in the industry. Todd will do a top notch job for you...But you already know that

 

[Ripper]

Congrats on repeatable numbers.

I can imagine the car sounds amazing and is quite fun to drive.

 

[NI-KA]

dipapa,

Can you give details? Year of viper, what you put into the build etc. Perhaps if there was a previous thread post a link here?

 

[dipapa]

Todd, owner of A&C in Murrieta, CA handled motor assembly, all installation work & tune & every additonal performance part including paint details.

Greg Good delivered the Heads & Cam.

They know best...call them for details.

Here few pics though
http://forums.viperclub.org/srt10-s.../640662-gen3-copperhead-built-motor-pics.html

 

[TrackAire]

Todd, owner of A&C in Murrieta, CA handled motor assembly, all installation work & tune & every additonal performance part including paint details.

Greg Good delivered the Heads & Cam.

They know best...call them for details.

Here few pics though
http://forums.viperclub.org/srt10-s.../640662-gen3-copperhead-built-motor-pics.html

How many miles were on the rebuild until the headers started to leak?

Cheers,
George

 

[dipapa]

How many miles were on the rebuild until the headers started to leak?

Cheers,
George

The 1 3/4" - 3" AR headers were new to go along with the new built motor. So both headers & motor were brand new at same time. So the motor & headers had 1800 miles before the header leak.

 

[Twister]

any pics of your car?

 

[TrackAire]

This following information is coming from a vendor of American Racing Headers who sees them all with 2+mm flatness across the flange. And if that's +/- 2+ mm even worse. Not too good.

Although there was only a header leak on passenger side both flanges were shaved flat so unfortunately some material had to be removed.

Going to track to drag be great, however I had 3 lower back surgeries 4-5 years ago and i dont want to leave my vertebrae at the light!

I think the only decent thing to do is offer my driving services and pilot your car down the strip

Seriously, it's still a lot of fun (especially on Wed nights) to come out and watch the cars run. Usually a couple of Vipers there plus tons of cool cars and people. Very much a low key show car atmoshpere. Enjoy the evening and be back in bed by 10:00 pm.

Cheers,
George

 

[dipapa]

Seriously, it's still a lot of fun (especially on Wed nights) to come out and watch the cars run. Usually a couple of Vipers there plus tons of cool cars and people. Very much a low key show car atmoshpere./QUOTE]

Are Wednesday nights the only times cars are running?

When the next weekend event worth going?

 

[TrackAire]

I've done both, the Wednesday night drags are a one evening and your done deal. The weekend bracket drags are usually an all day event, you run your run and then go park your vehicle and wait to hear your next run group run. Might be 1 hour or more between runs (especially if someones blows up or wrecks on the track and clean up is involved).

Once the weather warms up, the Wednesday night drags are really fun out at Infineon. Leave work a couple of hours early and you can be back at home by 9:00 to 10:00 pm. Great way to break up the week and look forward to **** day.

infineonraceway.com/raceway/race/brackets/

Check out the Infineon website for schedules, there are tons of days listed.

Now if it would only warm up!!

Yassou,
George

 

[dipapa]

Once the weather warms up, the Wednesday night drags are really fun out at Infineon. Leave work a couple of hours early and you can be back at home by 9:00 to 10:00 pm. Great way to break up the week and look forward to **** day.

Yassou,
George

Yeah definitely sounds like a plan...warmer weather & longer days be best.

I am sure real curious on the trap speed of my car.

 

[TrackAire]

Hey, you just solved two problems with your trap speed question.

Since your car will run below 11.50 if you hook up, just take off easy (save your back) and nail it to see what your trap speeds will be. This way you can stay above 11.50 and still have fun at the track.

We should start a competition to see who can run above 12.00 but the winner has the fastest trap speed.

There is a test and tune at Infineon Monday...wonder what the weather will be like

Cheers,
George

 

[plumcrazy]

whats the story on the headers ?

 

[dipapa]

It was fixed. Passenger side header removed, flange shaved flat, re-installed.

 

[dipapa]

Hey, you just solved two problems with your trap speed question.

Since your car will run below 11.50 if you hook up, just take off easy (save your back) and nail it to see what your trap speeds will be. This way you can stay above 11.50 and still have fun at the track.

We should start a competition to see who can run above 12.00 but the winner has the fastest trap speed.

There is a test and tune at Infineon Monday...wonder what the weather will be like

Cheers,
George

I was thinking that myself and wondering if it would in fact be an accurate trap speed. Sounds like it.

Yeah..gotta hit the track to experience the most from this viper...probably closer to early summer though unless its a weekend.

 

[plumcrazy]

It was fixed. Passenger side header removed, flange shaved flat, re-installed.

you shouldnt have to do that to a brand new header.... anyone ever say why it happened ?

now the flange is thinner, id be afraid of it happening again.

 

[dipapa]

you shouldnt have to do that to a brand new header.... anyone ever say why it happened ?

now the flange is thinner, id be afraid of it happening again.

Yeah i agree but unfortunately there not that flat from the vendor. Maybe now that header is thermal cycled & flat it wont happen again.

 

[plumcrazy]

what did the MFG say about it ? did you ask them to replace it ?

 

[dipapa]

what did the MFG say about it ? did you ask them to replace it ?

Frankly have you ever witnessed a performance parts mfg replace anything used...c'mon now. Maybe everyone should just check headers for flange flatness when they receive them.

Am I satisfied with the headers..maybe not, but I could spend weeks with my car down and in the shop which is out of town and dealing with AR. I choose not to go that way for something this minor and get it fixed. It may ultimately happen again with new headers. I feel more confident in the header fix honestly, with the thermal cycling complete and flatness taken care of.

 

[99 R/T 10]

Who's headers are they? OBX?

 

[ViperTony]

now the flange is thinner, id be afraid of it happening again.

Been there, done that, problem solved.
http://forums.viperclub.org/2881802-post110.html