Chrysler received petition

ViperGeorge

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Posts
2,248
Reaction score
0
Location
Greenwood Village, CO
Just got a call from a representative of Chrysler. He acknowledged receiving the petition supporting the Viper brand and thanked us for submitting it. While he stated he could not share anything new concerning the future of the Viper at this time he did say that management was aware of the support the car had. Apparently several of their folks regularly follow on-line chat sessions and would like to see the brand continue.

They are circulating the petition to SRT, Dodge Motorsports, as well as other senior management. He said it was sent to the right place.

I appreciate that someone would take the time to call me about the petition and not simply send me a form letter saying "thank you for your concern". At least I feel like we've had our voices heard and that they are taking us seriously. Otherwise it would have gone into the circular file and dismissed.

:2tu:LONG LIVE THE VIPER!!! :2tu:
 

ASPIRATIONS

Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Posts
1,464
Reaction score
8
Location
Park City,Utah
Thanks for the effort gbatejan:2tu: I just cant believe the small amount of signatures it received from this site,whats up with that.:omg::dunno: Kevin
 
OP
OP
V

ViperGeorge

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Posts
2,248
Reaction score
0
Location
Greenwood Village, CO
I've been thinking about that too. Not sure how many people actually use this site regularly. It seems like its the same basic group of people posting. I've actually gotten to know some of their online personalities by now. There may be a lot of registered users but probably not all of them sign in on a regular basis. So its possible that a large percentage of the regular users signed it while not too many of the infrequent visitors saw it. I hope that's the reason.
 

JonB

Legacy\Supporting Vendor
Supporting Vendor
Joined
Dec 8, 1997
Posts
10,327
Reaction score
45
Location
Columbia River Gorge
There is no reason you could not send in more signatures.....right up til decision time.

And I confess i'd sign it this time....skipped out reading the first one, with sincere apologies. I simply ASSumed too much and read too little. I know the author, and should have known to participate.
Sorry George. Sorry All. Chapter Two?
 

InjectTheVenom

Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 10, 2004
Posts
6,859
Reaction score
0
There is no reason you could not send in more signatures.....right up til decision time.

And I confess i'd sign it this time....skipped out reading the first one, with sincere apologies. I simply ASSumed too much and read too little. I know the author, and should have known to participate.
Sorry George. Sorry All. Chapter Two?

Chapter two? Hard and simple at the same time now that we know our voice has been heard: we need to get on our (e-)mailbox, put up a more extensive letter, get every single VCA member behind a second petition.
In other words: an attempt to get near the number of mailbags that got the original Viper concept from a "what if" to production under equally tough circumstances.
In other words 2: let history repeat itself to keep the future going.

Call me Dutch 'cause I am one and drive a VERY hard bargain :D

We need to get this going NOW NOW NOW!
Don't make me follow a crash-course in marketing strategy because when I sense that something is even slightly achievable it gets the blood flowing to places it does not usually go!

Mopar Boy good buddy where the hotel are you? Who is also with me?
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
V

ViperGeorge

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Posts
2,248
Reaction score
0
Location
Greenwood Village, CO
I'd be happy to start Chapter 2 but for it to be successful and for us to get "near the number of mailbags" that got the Viper rolling in the first place we'll need the help of club leadership. They would need to contact all the members and give them a letter of support to sign. I believe they could send everyone an email with an embedded link that would take them to a spot to record their support and Chrysler ownership stats. It seems painfully easy to me for this to be done.
 

Frankster

Enthusiast
Joined
May 6, 2008
Posts
293
Reaction score
0
Location
California
I didn't sign because I know it'll make little difference.

If you think otherwise it's self delusional.

Over the years I've learned that whenever I support a cause or contribute money to a political candidate that cause or that candidate looses.

Its like I'm jinxed so I've given up trying. Reality is a funny thing.....................
 
OP
OP
V

ViperGeorge

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Posts
2,248
Reaction score
0
Location
Greenwood Village, CO
Frankster, given your reported track record, thanks for not signing. But I am not self dilusional. The Mustang Club of America saved the Mustang years ago through a write-in campaign so why can't we save the Viper?????
 

GBS

Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Posts
637
Reaction score
0
Location
South Florida
I hope the Viper lives and appreciate your efforts. Who knows if it will make a difference but it doesn't hurt to try.
 

eliems

Viper Owner
Joined
Jun 9, 2009
Posts
237
Reaction score
0
Location
Vancouver BC
I think the Site operators have the ability to email all their members, can't we get them to do that with this?
 

TAILWAG

Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Posts
785
Reaction score
0
Location
Kansas
I think some members are more (much more) passionate about the Viper "brand" than others. That is not to say that, with a little peer pressure, they would not give in and sign. But, at the end of the day, you can't make someone do something they really don't want to, right?

I congratulate you guys for trying and wish you much success...

:drive::drive::drive::drive::drive:
 

InjectTheVenom

Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 10, 2004
Posts
6,859
Reaction score
0
I think some members are more (much more) passionate about the Viper "brand" than others. That is not to say that, with a little peer pressure, they would not give in and sign. But, at the end of the day, you can't make someone do something they really don't want to, right?

I congratulate you guys for trying and wish you much success...

:drive::drive::drive::drive::drive:

Force people to sign is indeed not the intention ;) As far as I am concerned, it is all in the way we put our motivation into words. Tomorrow during the day I am busy with work and some personal stuff but in the evening I plan to climb on my PM box and start getting some people together.
 

SSGViper

Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 24, 2008
Posts
203
Reaction score
0
Location
Golden, CO
In order for Chapter 2 to work, this needs some serious PR work. We need this to be in the media online/print/etc. We need an outpouring of VCA member owner and non-VCA member owner support to make a real impact. We need VCA leadership support on this to get the ball rolling.

I believe with VCA leadership to spearhead this petition campaign to save the Viper, along with some serious PR, it COULD make a difference.
 

Y2K5SRT

Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 26, 1999
Posts
7,891
Reaction score
0
Location
Overland Park, KS
You need a more broad, easily found, and dedicated petition that outlines your support and your goal. The goal is simple: To keep building the Viper and not kill it. Personally, I don't think you should tie it to a "Dodge or nothing" attitude as the latter could end up happening in that case. As mentioned previously, the club needs to take a careful approach to this as we do not wish to bite the hand that feeds. When some private e-mail addresses were inadvertently published here the club got in some pretty serious hot water as a result - even though they were posted by another Chrysler employee. With two more raffle cars already in the works we simply want to make sure we are careful in our approach.
 

TAILWAG

Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Posts
785
Reaction score
0
Location
Kansas
:2tu:
You need a more broad, easily found, and dedicated petition that outlines your support and your goal. The goal is simple: To keep building the Viper and not kill it. Personally, I don't think you should tie it to a "Dodge or nothing" attitude as the latter could end up happening in that case. As mentioned previously, the club needs to take a careful approach to this as we do not wish to bite the hand that feeds. When some private e-mail addresses were inadvertently published here the club got in some pretty serious hot water as a result - even though they were posted by another Chrysler employee. With two more raffle cars already in the works we simply want to make sure we are careful in our approach.

To that end, here is a sample petition that is MUCH more broad, easier to find, and easier to sign. Anybody can link to it too...

Keep Building America's Exotic Car - The Viper Petition : [ powered by iPetitions.com ]

Just a thought!

Yup, this is more like it...
 
OP
OP
V

ViperGeorge

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Posts
2,248
Reaction score
0
Location
Greenwood Village, CO
Chris, I am more than happy to sign this petition but I have some questions:

1) Are you prepared to email our membership and provide them a link to this petition? Otherwise the effort will not generate the needed exposure.

2) Should we include an indication of Chrysler product ownership, or should we gather this data of club members independent of this petition? It strikes me as this would be powerful information for Chrysler to have. I believe that previous VCA leadership had statistics on this. Have they been updated?

3) Will you or other club leadership contact the media to advise them of this effort?

4) How long will the petition be active before it is submitted?

5) Why do you believe that Chrysler would be upset by any broad effort the club makes to save the Viper? I certainly did not detect any hint of adverse reaction to the petition I already submitted, in fact quite the contrary yet this seems to be your position - "let's not bite the hand that feeds us". Truth is if Chrysler kills the Viper they are no longer the club's supporting manufacturer. I know of no company that would object to customers showing support for one of their brands.

6) While club leadership seems to be ok with the Viper brand being sold off to another party, I do not believe this is in the long term best interests of the Viper, Chrysler, or the club. I believe that there are many people within Chrysler that believe the same as I do, in fact I've spoken to some. Have you polled the membership of their views on this?
 

HSSSSSS

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 22, 2007
Posts
751
Reaction score
0
Location
Red Deer, AB, Canada
I didn't sign because I know it'll make little difference.

If you think otherwise it's self delusional.

Over the years I've learned that whenever I support a cause or contribute money to a political candidate that cause or that candidate looses.

Its like I'm jinxed so I've given up trying. Reality is a funny thing.....................


You should NEVER sell yourself short!!! Your voice DOES count!!! Every time someone signs a petition, the voice gets louder. If you and 2999 others sign this new petition, when it gets started, you can be sure it will make a much larger impact than 186.:D
For sure you can count me in......again!!!:2tu:

LONG LIVE THE VIPER!!! :famous: :bounce:
 

Y2K5SRT

Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 26, 1999
Posts
7,891
Reaction score
0
Location
Overland Park, KS
Chris, I am more than happy to sign this petition but I have some questions:

1) Are you prepared to email our membership and provide them a link to this petition? Otherwise the effort will not generate the needed exposure.
That is not up to me. We are having our board of directors call next week and this will certainly be a topic of discussion. As this is more of a political stance we need to make sure everybody is comfortable with it.

2) Should we include an indication of Chrysler product ownership, or should we gather this data of club members independent of this petition? It strikes me as this would be powerful information for Chrysler to have. I believe that previous VCA leadership had statistics on this. Have they been updated?
I suspect the petition could be modified to indicate number of Chrysler products owned and we do indeed have previous studies we have shared with the current management. Realize that the folks in charge are the exact same people we have been working with for the past couple years - there were no major changes. We need to be careful that the results would be favorable. If we only get 200 signatures and those 200 people owned all of 300 Chrysler products, it would be very underwhelming and undermine our position. As most lawyers will tell you, don't ask a question in court unless you already know the answer.

3) Will you or other club leadership contact the media to advise them of this effort?
Again, this is a board decision and would come down to whether or not it is newsworthy. Certainly a petition with tens of thousands of signatures would be notable, but <200 people is hardly worth a blog entry - unless you are demonstrating a lack of interest in keeping it alive. Imagine the damage it would cause to see "the Viper Club asked its 4000 members how many wanted to see the line continued and only 143 responded". Again, be careful you aren't shooting yourself in the foot.

4) How long will the petition be active before it is submitted?
If submitted on behalf of the VCA, then it would again be a board decision. Regardless, it would make sense to balance between a significant number of signatures and sooner than later. We don't want to send it in with three signatures but we also don't want to wait six months either.

5) Why do you believe that Chrysler would be upset by any broad effort the club makes to save the Viper? I certainly did not detect any hint of adverse reaction to the petition I already submitted, in fact quite the contrary yet this seems to be your position - "let's not bite the hand that feeds us". Truth is if Chrysler kills the Viper they are no longer the club's supporting manufacturer. I know of no company that would object to customers showing support for one of their brands.
There is passion and there is pushy. I can tell you that Bob Carroll and myself have been on the phone or in meetings with folks concerning the Viper's future every single week since November of last year, including during the bankruptcy process. Of course their customer service folks will smile and tell you "thanks for the great feedback, we will get right on it!" Then hang up the phone, roll their eyes, and shove it in a drawer to collect dust. That is not to say that they did or would do that, but that many, many businesses operate that way. "The customer is always right" - at least as far as they know.

You may or may not recall the message delivered during VOI 10 by both VCA leaders and Chrysler themselves: They announced that they would be selling the platform in order to save it. Indeed, keeping and building upon it didn't seem to be brought up as an option. Threatening to walk away from Chrysler products as a whole, as many have already done, is simply not in the best interest of the club. We were forced to take a similar position on Tator's Dodge: While a very loyal fan of Chuck's and supportive of him in every way possible, we also know that if we had threatened to stop buying Chrysler products they could have easily said, "to heck with it, let's just kill the Viper, ignore the VCA, and be done with all the hassle." When it comes to the carrot or the stick, you don't play that game with an 800 pound gorilla - you will lose.

6) While club leadership seems to be ok with the Viper brand being sold off to another party, I do not believe this is in the long term best interests of the Viper, Chrysler, or the club. I believe that there are many people within Chrysler that believe the same as I do, in fact I've spoken to some. Have you polled the membership of their views on this?
That is because you are not as close to it as many others are. While it is easy for somebody to say, "Make it 700 horsepower and price it at $50,000", the reality is that it simply isn't practical. This has NOTHING to do with what club leadership thinks, but is the harsh reality in today's automotive climate. My dream scenario? Dodge announces they are keeping the Viper, introducing a new body style in 2011/2012, creating a true "halo" marketing campaign (using the Viper to elevate the rest of the Dodge product line), and returning to Le Mans. Unfortunately, that scenario is unlikely at best.

Again, from Chrysler's very own executives last fall: They were selling the Viper as it provided the best possible chance of saving it. Is that still true today? Well, orders are way down, the new corporate partners have two other "halo" brands, and the Viper is, by most public impressions (incorrectly) one of the most environmentally unfriendly cars on the planet. So when you add it all up (and as was discussed with a senior Chrysler executive even today), the car might be better off under an independent owner that would recognize it for what it is and not allow it to languish or die based on what other people perceive it to be.

Again, I hope Dodge renews its lease on life, as does just about everybody in the VCA. You don't need a poll to figure that out. You simply need to look closely at what all indications have been in the past, and that was in order to save it you needed to find somebody to buy it. We hope that is no longer the case, but we wouldn't stake everything on that hope. We instead need to base our actions on what Chrysler has told us previously until told otherwise. And support it accordingly if it means saving the Viper.

Thanks again for your support, both of the club and of the Viper platform itself. :2tu:

Chris
 
OP
OP
V

ViperGeorge

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Posts
2,248
Reaction score
0
Location
Greenwood Village, CO
Chris, Thank you for your thorough and thoughtful response. I hope that the Board decides to endorse a club wide campaign to show support for the Viper. I've given the previous petition effort and the number of signatures it gathered a lot of thought (as have several other site posters) and I have come to the conclusion that 184 signatures gathered over a little over a week from VCA members that visit this site is actually pretty good. I have been a member of the VCA for 10 years and it is only recently that I have become active on the web site. There is no question in my mind that if you approach the entire membership their positive response to the petition will not be a disappointment. We will not shoot ourselves in the foot.

At my first VOI (number 7), my wife and I were literally blown away by the incredible energy that the Viper nation had for the Viper, Chrysler, and the club. The support from Chrysler was amazing, in fact the whole event was simply incredible. This is not a club that will fail to speak up and show their support for the car, of that I am confident. How many other events like this are there in the car world? and how many other clubs have a membership as passionate about the brand as does the VCA?

However, and I am by no means being vindictive, if Chrysler sells or kills the Viper brand there will be many club members that will no longer buy Chrysler products. That is not out of a sense of revenge rather it is out of brand identification. When I was growing up my dad bought Fords and Lincolns. I learned to drive on a Mustang, my first car was a Torino. Now I own two Vipers and two Jeeps. In fact since I bought my first Viper in 1998 I've owned many Jeeps and a few Vipers. While I enjoy and admire other cars, including the dreaded ZR1, my "car identity" is now centered on Chrysler. That would change pretty quickly if Chrysler sells or kills the Viper as my primary link to them would be broken. Today, I don't even think about buying a Ford Explorer or a GM Yukon, I buy a Jeep because the Viper has made me a Chrysler guy. So yes while I want the Viper to continue, it is in fact important to me that it remain a Dodge Viper.

I share your dream of having the Viper return to Le Mans. My son and I were present at Daytona when the Viper took the overall win. That further helped shape my car identity and his. He now longs for a Challenger that I may well buy him after he gets out of graduate school. Without the Viper I would likely buy him a Mustang. By the way he drives a Jeep today. Chrysler would lose the halo effect if they no longer had the Viper. I don't know if there is a way for them to scientifically measure that effect but its there none the less.

The memory of hearing Ralph announce at the last VOI that Chrysler was trying to sell the Viper brand is still very clear to me. Ralph is a car guy and, while he couldn't say it publicly, I believe he and others wanted to keep the Viper in-house. Heck he even drives the snot out of the first production ACR. Those were different times though, when Ralph stood up in front of VOI 10. Chrysler was owned by a private equity firm that, in my opinion, did not know anything about running a car company. Fiat, on the other hand, does and they seem to have a passion for cars that go beyond providing basic transportation. I can't imagine that anyone would think that the Ferrari, Maseratti, or Alpha are any less environmentally friendly than the Viper. Has anyone told the press that my 08 Viper gets 25 mpg on the highway? I don't think we should apologize for the Viper, its raw, powerful, and completely unique. When people come up to me at a gas station to gawk at the car they are amazed that it does so well in terms of mpg. I have never met anyone that is other than enthralled with the car. I've even had Corvette owners give me a thumbs up.

To sum things up, I believe that the membership would like our leadership to get them involved. I hope that the Board will do just that. You've no doubt read my ramblings about how the MCA saved the Mustang, they are not whimsical fantasies, they are fact. We can do the same for the Viper.
 

eliems

Viper Owner
Joined
Jun 9, 2009
Posts
237
Reaction score
0
Location
Vancouver BC
When I was a regular on the Corvette Forum, (140,000 plus members) a thread came along about the demise of the Viper.
There was a suprising outpouring of sympathy and regret that such a car would no longer be produced.

This petition should be circulated through all of the muscle car forums. I was a part of the AC Cobra community for several years and I know they would sign up in masse as well.

Corporations count every letter as 20,000, (a report I read some time ago about customer relations).
 

Chrissss

Viper Owner
Joined
Sep 5, 2008
Posts
1,071
Reaction score
1
Location
Cincinnati
Unless that petition makes it to Fiat and that CEO, I doubt it would have any impact at all. Fiat will be determining Viper's future, not Chrysler.
 

Y2K5SRT

Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 26, 1999
Posts
7,891
Reaction score
0
Location
Overland Park, KS
Unless that petition makes it to Fiat and that CEO, I doubt it would have any impact at all. Fiat will be determining Viper's future, not Chrysler.
Assuming we can get a significant amount of signatures and the board approves, we will make sure it gets to the right people. That we can absolutely guarantee.

I want to comment on one particular thing noted by George, and that is regarding other Chrysler purchases. I was a staunch GM guy for most of my life with everything from Vettes to GMC SUV's populating my garages for decades. My first car was a '75 Pontiac convertible and my first manual transmission was a '63 split window Vette. Today we have an '06 300C SRT8, an '07 Caliber R/T AWD, an '08 Caliber SRT4, and of course our '05 Viper SRT10. Prior to owning Vipers I had a brief encounter with a Plymouth Volare, but that was it for my Chrysler experience before 1999.

The challenge I find personally is that threats often serve to take away from the cause rather than help it. That said, if Chrysler were to kill the Viper outright I have to say that I would start looking at other manufacturers. Oh, I would still consider the SRT products (assuming they still existed) to support my many friends that work there, but I would no longer feel brand loyalty as a deciding factor - a factor that is very much in play today. Of course I also know that there were viable offers made (and some still are on the table today), so a premature death of the Viper platform is simply unnecessary. Thus I personally would be a little bitter if the car simply ceased to be.

Now, if that same manufacturer continued to show support for that car, even by selling it off to keep it alive, I would still feel the tug of brand loyalty as a result. I love my SRT8 and wouldn't mind replacing it with a new one someday. Maybe even a Challenger now that we are becoming empty-nesters. Knowing the manufacturer did what they could to preserve our beloved Viper would earn their repeated business from us. Certainly we aren't going to be able to buy our sedans, trucks, and fleet vehicles from a small manufacturer dedicated to the Viper so our business has to go somewhere.

The bottom line is that threatening to pull our collective business if they sell the car could prove fatal to the platform as they may not have any other option. That landscape certainly changed with Fiat entering the picture, but to what end we simply don't know. Instead we should encourage the continued production of the Viper and provide some assurance of brand loyalty for that alone.

Oh, and that petition was designed for anybody to be able to sign it, be it Mustang owners, Corvette owners, etc. I suppose it could be changed to something simple like, "We, the undersigned, hereby petition to keep the Viper brand alive and as a going concern by any means necessary." Let's face it, we need the Corvette to continue to help keep the Viper alive and vice-versa. Kill the Viper and you will see the Vette start to scale way back on horsepower as there is no domestic "challenge" to do otherwise. Don't forget that exciting economy car called the Mustang II - those days could return very, very easily...
 
OP
OP
V

ViperGeorge

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Posts
2,248
Reaction score
0
Location
Greenwood Village, CO
Chris, I agree with you. I want to see the Viper live, whether with Chrysler (preferable) or with someone else. As you've said the "tug" to buy Chrysler products will be eliminated completely if they kill the Viper. It will be substantially reduced over time if they sell it. Trending to zero in a few years. That is not intended to be a threat, it is in my opinion of what the reality will become. Certainly those people that buy a new Viper from some other company will have no brand affiliation with Chrysler unless they had it before.

Chrissss, The previous petition was sent to the CEO of Fiat who is also the CEO of Chrysler.
 

InjectTheVenom

Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 10, 2004
Posts
6,859
Reaction score
0
You need a more broad, easily found, and dedicated petition that outlines your support and your goal. The goal is simple: To keep building the Viper and not kill it. Personally, I don't think you should tie it to a "Dodge or nothing" attitude as the latter could end up happening in that case. As mentioned previously, the club needs to take a careful approach to this as we do not wish to bite the hand that feeds. When some private e-mail addresses were inadvertently published here the club got in some pretty serious hot water as a result - even though they were posted by another Chrysler employee. With two more raffle cars already in the works we simply want to make sure we are careful in our approach.

Chris, keep building the Viper and not kill it was also what I was thinking of ;)
Please give me some time and I will work on something that meets the club's criteria and still makes a strong voice that will hopefully land a homerun. When finished I will of course first present it for approval.
 
Last edited:

Y2K5SRT

Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 26, 1999
Posts
7,891
Reaction score
0
Location
Overland Park, KS
The VCA is very proud to announce that Dodge is announcing that the Viper will CONTINUE under the Dodge brand for at LEAST the next two model years. This is due in no small part to the efforts of both the club officers and the grassroot efforts of members like you. CAAP will continue to build them and we will continue to buy 'em.

Thanks go out to all the folks at Dodge, Chrysler, and Fiat for their continued support. Congratulations to everybody in the VCA!
 

Sweet Ride

Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 1, 2008
Posts
806
Reaction score
0
Location
Denver, CO
The VCA is very proud to announce that Dodge is announcing that the Viper will CONTINUE under the Dodge brand for at LEAST the next two model years. This is due in no small part to the efforts of both the club officers and the grassroot efforts of members like you. CAAP will continue to build them and we will continue to buy 'em.

Thanks go out to all the folks at Dodge, Chrysler, and Fiat for their continued support. Congratulations to everybody in the VCA!

:kazoo:
Woooo!!!
:bounce:
Good work everyone!!!
:rock:
 

InjectTheVenom

Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 10, 2004
Posts
6,859
Reaction score
0
So I guess the petition chapter 2 plans can be scrapped :D Great job everyone! Let's hope that we have played a valuable part here on the forums as well :headbang:
 
Top