Drove a viper... Help please!

[ThinkingViper]

I drove a 96 RT/10 today, and have a few questions about what I observed:

1) VIN on inside of windshield does NOT match VIN on inside of drivers door. The inside drivers door VIN is a manufacture sticker type, the VIN on the windshield is a metal type plate/etching. The Sticker VIN on the door also held information regarding weight, manufacture date, and had a bar code. Owner says he bought the car new from dealer. What would be the reason to have different VINs on the door? The VIN inside the windshield is the VIN on the title. I ran a quick check through carfax, and 2 records are found. I'm hoping someone can run the complete carfax test for me?... pretty please

2) When removing the coolant overflow pressure cap, there was corrosion on the inside of the cap and bottle. There did not appear to be any fluid in the overflow pressure bottle. Anything to be concerned about?

3) After taking the car for a 10 minute test drive, there was liquid coming out both mufflers, the liquid appeared to be water. Normal?

4) The heads on this car have NOT been fixed. I understand this is a 'when' not 'if' repair and that I should expect no more than $2,000 to fix (car has no warranty). Could this fix cost significantly more than $2,000?

Of course, I would never purchase this beast without a certified tech examining the car, but I would greatly appreciate someone sharing their wisdom with a rookie.

Thanks in advance,
Cheryl

 

[VIPR GTS]

The VIN should match. It is time for a Viper Tech to inspect the car before any money exchanges hands, you may save alot of money and frustration.

 

[Vic]

Water out the tail pipe happens on mine, ever since it was new. Never seems to be a problem. I have other cars that also have water droplets from the tail pipe.

I'd look underneath, and see if the frame or underpan has been crinkled, because it might have gone sideways, and hit a pole or something, necessitating the door replacement. Does the paint on the side sills look the same as the general body color and luster? Do the sills look the same on both sides of the car? Side sill might have gotten crunched, if it hit a pole or tree.

What makes you say the stuff you are looking at is corrosion? (Not being critical, I just don't know) Is it white powder, green, or what? The overflow cap and bottle are plastic, and don't corrode, in the strictest sense of the word, right? Then thats probably just coagulated silicates from the coolant, which will happen over time. Regardless what the overflow bottle looks like, you should have the coolant in any car changed every year or so, because the ethylene-glycol coolant has silicates which settle out of solution. These particulates need to be flushed out, best done yearly. The orange coolant is something else, and doesn't need to be changed so frequently, I'm told. I think all Vipers have the green ethylene-glycol kind. Wish JonB or some other expert would chime in on this. Do a search on coolant, I'll bet you'll find your answers.

Look at the brake calipers, through the rims. The lettering "Viper" on the caliper should be white. If it is yellowed, the car may have been tracked. Need to look more carefully at a tracked car.

Does the brake fluid look clear? Or is it dark brown? If the owner took good care of the car, the fluid will be near clear. If the owner let it slide, chances are other maintenance wasn't done either.

Any leaks under the car, after a full warm-up? Whats on the ground? Water, oil, coolant? If the head gaskets are blown, you may see streaks of coolant down the sides of the block. I'd use an inspection mirror from PepBoys, and a bright flashlite. Don't know much more about this, reccommend doing a search on it.

 

[ThinkingViper]

I really didn't think the water out the tailpipe was an issue (even the stealth does that at times), but these were quite a few "droplets"... enough that I'd call it a small puddle. The pipe was physically dripping water, still no biggie?

No evidence of crinkle in frame (although the car wasn't on a hoist). General appearance of paint appears consistent.

Corrosion is the wrong word, more like a green/brown gunky substance (ie, coagulated silicates). Not white powder at all (or under oil cap). There was an anti-freeze smell off engine after test-driving. Could this be a deteriorating gasket for the coolant overflow bottle? I’ve read that coolant smell could be indicative of head gasket issues, but we checked for leakage around head gasket and there was none apparent. Thoughts?

Owner says never tracked, but I will be sure to check that out. Thank you.

The brake fluid is clear, but with a brown tint (light brown, but you could see through it).

No visible leaks under car (except for the muffler) in the garage or driveway.

Thanks for any/all input

 

[Snakester]

For every gallon of gas burned, there is a gallon of water produced. Normally it just stays in the warmed air of the exhaust, but when the engine and exhaust are cool, you will see steam coming out of the tailpipe and water dripping out as it condenses in the relatively cool exhaust pipe.

So that part sounds normal (when the car is started cold).

The brake fluid sounds fine.

This is the first time that I've heard of some mandetory head problem, that had to be fixed. Hmmm...

-Dean.

 

[viper spray]

Water? condensation. Vin#? door replaced after crack up . Rad. needs a flush. Talk him down , check car out , buy for a good price and have FUN!!! (It's a car and it can be fixed correctly!)

 

[Newport Viper]

GO FIND ANOTHER CAR. Yes I am shouting!

 

[Bonkers]

There are issues here. The head gasket thing is a pretty common repair by now and would think any knowledgeble owner would have had it done under warrenty (unless the car was in a major accident and the warrenty was void... hmmmmm....)

Just out of curiousity what are the two VINs? I'll check them against my lists and see what pops up. Also, just for laughs, have a dealer run the numbers trhough to see if they have any records on either VIN.

It would come as a big shock if that door is found to have come off a stolen car now wouldn't it.

Otherwise, if the price is right and you like the car go for it....

 

[ViperJoe]

There are issues here. The head gasket thing is a pretty common repair by now and would think any knowledgeble owner would have had it done under warrenty

How could it be repaired if it was not blown / leaking at the time the warranty was in force??????? I don't think the warranty would cover a repair that "might"
happen somewhere "down the road". Auto manufacturers would go belly up if that was the way it worked.

Cheers!

 

[GR8_ASP]

First off the water out the exhaust is quite normal. Both of mine do it. With and without catalysts. This does not indicate any issue whatsoever.

The door sticker. Could it have have been a mistake from day one and no-one noticed? CarFax or warranty data (available at a dealer) should indicate if it was replaced. Don't assume the worst here unless information points in that direction (paint quality and other comments made above).

Head gaskets - When are the Gen II guys going to realize that most Gen I's have not had the head gaskets replaced. It is NOT a 100% problem. Mine are 8 years old and I have had no issue with them. From what I hear the highest failure rate is with the garage queens, with limited mileage. But most of the people I know that have had their Gen I from the beginning have not had the problem.

Coolant change interval. I believe it is every 3 years for ethylene glycol. Regarding air in the hot tank that is a common condition and leads to "morning sickness." Not a big deal to burp the system to get rid of it. If the overflow bottle in the fascia is low or empty it would result in air getting back into the system. Due to the limited visibility of the bottle, it is easy to understand how a non-technical owner may not even know it is low.

So far nothing you mentioned would scare me away from the car. It does indicate deeper checks to make sure the risk and value are appropriate. Final word - I have driven (significantly) all three generations of Vipers and without question the Gen I is the most fun to drive. Not the fastest, and definitely not the easiest, but overall the most grins per mile. enjoy!

 

[Russ Oasis]

Pass on this car. There are too many issues raised and too many VERY STRAIGHT cars available at good prices to even consider this one. Water out the pipes in itself may be no biggie, but when coupled with talk about head gaskets.....sounds suspicious. Also, the VIN number issue is a dead giveaway as to a past accident or issue of some nature. Finally, just because the brake fluid is clear in the reservoir doesn't mean that it is clear in the system. Crooked mechanics often **** it out of the reservoir and only replace that fluid instead of bleeding the entire system. This car is not for you.

 

[DEVILDOG]

3) After taking the car for a 10 minute test drive, there was liquid coming out both mufflers, the liquid appeared to be water. Normal?


Thanks in advance,
Cheryl

You also stated in a follow-up post that the water was physically dripping and formed a pool. My Gen II exhaust only blows water for a brief period of time after a cold start. After the exhaust is hot there is absolutely no water out of the exhaust. After a drive and parked no water out of pipes. I would think after a 10 min drive water should not be coming out of the exhaust unless there is a head gasket issue. You also stated there was a coolant smell after driving. In addition to the other major questionable issues stated if you are still interested I would check out each issue completely to your complete satisfaction relative to any purchase price being agreed on. If the door vin# issue turns out to be from a stolen Viper I'd report to the police and find another Viper to buy. Good luck! Please keep us informed of your progress.

 

[Bonkers]

Don't assume the worst here unless information points in that direction (paint quality and other comments made above).

Yeah some of us are overly paranoid about these things, please don't hop on our bandwagon.

When are the Gen II guys going to realize that most Gen I's have not had the head gaskets replaced. It is NOT a 100% problem.

Now I remember being specifically told on many occations during my RT search that the head gasket thing was a signifcant problem and that many, many RTs were pulled in for rebuilds. In fact one of the RTs I was looking did not have it done and the collective group told me that it made the car suspicious.

Still I am a paranoid type person so I would do a through check of the car. If nothing can be found though (and again IF THE PRICE IS RIGHT), don't hurt yourself thinking about it.

 

[snowmann]

No brainer! PASS!!!

 

[GR8_ASP]

Bomkers, I agree that some have said it is a 100% problem. Course one of those that states it is in the business of selling the parts.

I bought my 1995 back in May of 1995. That is about when our club formed so I got to know many Gen I original buyers. Of a relatively large group I am only aware of 2 of them getting replacement head gaskets. Both fairly early in the ownership period (about 2-3 years) and both still on warranty. None of the others have needed them. Mine is now 8 years old (geez time flies) and has not shown a cooling system issue. I did upgrade the fan to improve the overall cooling, but it is doubtful that would have impacted the head gasket durability. I have mine on a lift so I see the underside frequently. No leaks or tracks. I have had a glycol smell, but that was due to overflow of the coolant bottle in the fascia. I have not experienced that since I changed to the high flow fan.

At an average age of 9 years I would think that if we were encountering a 100% issue that most, if not all, would have already experienced it.

Back to the water from the exhaust. First if it was related to coolant the rate of loss from the cooling system would be quite noticeable. Plus the smell of combusted coolant is unmistakable. My '95, with it's overly rich calibration and lack of catalytic converters blows a good stream of water out for the first 5 minutes. More if it is cool outside or I drive it very calmly (hmm, haven't done that lately). On my tile floor small pools show up after only a minute of idling. It has done so ever since I removed my catalysts back in 1995.

If I was selling mine and someone expected that I reduce the price to cover a future head gasket failure I would let them keep looking for another car. I would not reduce the price because I have not had a problem, and may never have it. But then again, given how much I like the Gen I, it is doubtful that I will sell it. Ever!