Viper Wizard
Enthusiast
BYE NOW!!
They are going up UP UP !!
They are going up UP UP !!
Gen I & II Prices going to skyrocket?
- Thread starter Viper Wizard
- Start date
joe117
Enthusiast
Over the years I've owned C1 thru C4 in various vintages. I'm sure that isn't unusual for guys on this board. Of all those cars the C4 is by far the best car. It is a real bargain sports car at this time. It may be called "dime a dozen" by the guys with the earlier models but it is still a very nice car. The "dime a dozen" rap has a little bit of a "sour grapes" ring to it. There are no stock C1 thru C3 Vettes that can ever match the performance of even an ordinary C4. A solid high tourque, high hp V8 with a 6 speed behind it. Giant tires by any standards other than Viper. And all this in an inexpensive, dead reliable, car that will get 22 mpg in nomal suburban driving. How can you knock that. I don't see why everyone isn't driving one as an extra car. As far as the values going up on Vettes other than C4, I don't think C3 is going up yet. Some Vettes will be worth lot's of money some day, all reasonable shape Vipers will be worth a fortune some day. There were only about 13k of them to start with. There will never be any more.
Lidquidsilver
Enthusiast
i pray they stay low until i get one
joe117
Enthusiast
Any mods you make to your Viper will someday detract from its value, unless they can be removed without a trace. Look at the Vettes. What mod makes a C1-C3 Vette worth more? Who would pay extra for a 57 T bird with an aftermarket shifter and nitrous? Ever hear anybody at a classic show say, "heck, of course the numbers don't match, I put a better engine in it"?
MtHam ACR
Enthusiast
4 words: denial or wishful thinking.
I can't think of one car in recent years, including McLaren, Porsche, Ferrari or any other exotic, that gained value shortly after production ceased. I will concede there may be an exception somewhere, but I promise it's not the rule.
The 97 Porsche Twin Turbo S (don't remember the exact numbers, maybe 175 produced?) fetched $170-$190K new and they have done nothing but fall since. I think the last one I saw in autoweek (traditionally higher priced listings) was listed at $120K or so.
Prices will continue to erode for the next 10-15 years at least, but hopefully not a lot. It usually takes 'classic' status (25 years) before any car could potentially gain value. I don't doubt Vipers could be worth more than they cost new someday, but as a short term investment, I'd say your safe bet is tax free munis.
Eric
I can't think of one car in recent years, including McLaren, Porsche, Ferrari or any other exotic, that gained value shortly after production ceased. I will concede there may be an exception somewhere, but I promise it's not the rule.
The 97 Porsche Twin Turbo S (don't remember the exact numbers, maybe 175 produced?) fetched $170-$190K new and they have done nothing but fall since. I think the last one I saw in autoweek (traditionally higher priced listings) was listed at $120K or so.
Prices will continue to erode for the next 10-15 years at least, but hopefully not a lot. It usually takes 'classic' status (25 years) before any car could potentially gain value. I don't doubt Vipers could be worth more than they cost new someday, but as a short term investment, I'd say your safe bet is tax free munis.
Eric
Jeff Torrey
Enthusiast
I do not think the prices will go down. Likely to hold and rise slowly.
Miles B
Enthusiast
I agree with MtHam ACR.. down down down. Come on guys, it's used cars!! Surely you aren't suggesting 0-10 year old used cars are a good investment?!?!
I've got a bridge to sell you....
I think a new model will ALWAYS help push the prices down too. Hoping (sorry) for at least a 10% to 15% fall at the end of the year.. there will be a lot of trade-ins coming onto the market too.. I would think at least 500 trades on SRTs.. how many Vipers are normally on the market?? Supply goes up, I don't see demand rising that much.. most people are still "well there's a new model out now" state of mind. Buyer's market on Gen I/II I would think, at least for a few years.
I've got a bridge to sell you....
I think a new model will ALWAYS help push the prices down too. Hoping (sorry) for at least a 10% to 15% fall at the end of the year.. there will be a lot of trade-ins coming onto the market too.. I would think at least 500 trades on SRTs.. how many Vipers are normally on the market?? Supply goes up, I don't see demand rising that much.. most people are still "well there's a new model out now" state of mind. Buyer's market on Gen I/II I would think, at least for a few years.
garolittle
Enthusiast
Price of a '94 RT/10 with less than 20K miles today $35,000 - $40,000.
Same car five years from now .... $27,500 - $32,500.
Prices will fall.
Same car five years from now .... $27,500 - $32,500.
Prices will fall.
Correct..ours have ALREADY gone up !!!
GTS Bruce
Enthusiast
There are just too many of them out there to have the price rise.Sorry.If you bought as an investment you lose.If you bought for the fun of ownership,then enjoy and to hell with the depreciation. Bruce
Don't think the current car will skyrocket anytime soon, but the intro of SRT-10 ensures it a place as a future classic, IMO.
Re: recent cars that have appreciated in value from original MSRP - McLaren F1's value has risen a bit since production ceased. The F50 has gained at least a couple of hundred thousand dollars over its original retail and the 550 Barchetta has almost doubled in price (a very recent model, btw, but the run is complete and all are sold).
Re: recent cars that have appreciated in value from original MSRP - McLaren F1's value has risen a bit since production ceased. The F50 has gained at least a couple of hundred thousand dollars over its original retail and the 550 Barchetta has almost doubled in price (a very recent model, btw, but the run is complete and all are sold).
Birvini
Enthusiast
As a general rule, cars deprieciate. I believe Cobra's and Dodge Hemi's went up b/c there were so few. If you bought yours for an investment, ouch. Buy them for fun!!!!!
C O D Y
Enthusiast
Here's my guess.....
5% depreciation a year for 5 to 8 years. Then you find the bottom. After that a VERY, VERY, Very slow increase.
New Viper $75,000 (this would be a 2002 GTS)
1 year old $71,250
2 years old $67,687
3 years old $64,302
4 years old $61,086
5 years old $58,031
6 years old $55,129 (this would be a 1996 GTS)
And those prices would be for perfect cars getting top dollar. All future vipers owners have enough time to save for a GTS and a RT/10.
P.S. Many moths ago I also guessed the SRT/10 would MSRP for $69,995.00 Still waiting to find out on that one.
5% depreciation a year for 5 to 8 years. Then you find the bottom. After that a VERY, VERY, Very slow increase.
New Viper $75,000 (this would be a 2002 GTS)
1 year old $71,250
2 years old $67,687
3 years old $64,302
4 years old $61,086
5 years old $58,031
6 years old $55,129 (this would be a 1996 GTS)
And those prices would be for perfect cars getting top dollar. All future vipers owners have enough time to save for a GTS and a RT/10.
P.S. Many moths ago I also guessed the SRT/10 would MSRP for $69,995.00 Still waiting to find out on that one.
MES
Enthusiast
I agree with those that say the cars will not go up in value anytime soon, but the nice thing is they will not go down much either.
Here is my prediction
0-1 years - price drop 5-8%
1-2 years - price drop another 5%
2-3 years - price drop another 3%
3-5 years - price stable (but really dropping do to inflation)
5-10 years - increase in value 2-3% per year
20 years:
- for a mint all original X10 original sticker price
- for a missing parts but original drivetrain 4-6X original price
- for a modified and non matching 2-3X original price
- for a modified car that was driven for 20 years -> priceless
Drive and modify you car today, when your 85 years old and sh!%%ing your pants that Viper in storage will do you little good
Here is my prediction
0-1 years - price drop 5-8%
1-2 years - price drop another 5%
2-3 years - price drop another 3%
3-5 years - price stable (but really dropping do to inflation)
5-10 years - increase in value 2-3% per year
20 years:
- for a mint all original X10 original sticker price
- for a missing parts but original drivetrain 4-6X original price
- for a modified and non matching 2-3X original price
- for a modified car that was driven for 20 years -> priceless
Drive and modify you car today, when your 85 years old and sh!%%ing your pants that Viper in storage will do you little good
Lawrenzo
Enthusiast
The RT-10s will most likely take a bigger hit. I would bet that a lot of the SRT buyers will be keeping their GTS as track cars in the near run. As always, only time will tell.
jamie
Enthusiast
Future Viper owner,
I don't see them going down in price and I could only hope they go up in value.
I don't see them going down in price and I could only hope they go up in value.
Gerald
Enthusiast
it would only make sense that they'll go up. Fact is, more and more will be wrecked, driving and less diserable, making the nice ones more sought after..
I think with EVERY sports car,with a new design,and limited quantity made, the older design will go up. That is, except the barbie vette C-4's as an exception, dime a dozen cars.
I think with EVERY sports car,with a new design,and limited quantity made, the older design will go up. That is, except the barbie vette C-4's as an exception, dime a dozen cars.
Gavin
Enthusiast
INVESTMENT ADVISE!!!!
Buy cheap automobiles and expensive real estate.
Vipers are going to continue to depreciate - simply the result of massive supply in the high performance automobile catagory.
California real estate - continues to boom, drop off a bit, and go through another boom.
$60,000 correctly invested in real estate will get you a much bigger capital gain over the next 10-15yrs than $60,000 invested in a Viper.(even if prices solidify it is going to be years before we see fully restored Vipers at the auctions collecting prices above the original cost - those that do will be very low mileage units.)
Buy the car - drive the heck out of it and enjoy it.
10 -15 years from now, restore it and.......drive the heck out of it and enjoy it all over again.
These cars were built to be driven!!!!!!!!
After being real anal about keeping mine scratch free, two rear bumper incidents, a door ding, a confragulation with a deer, all the result of using it as a daily driver and track car, I finally cut loose and installed a bunch of gear that makes me happy with the performance both on and off, and as I continue to collected the odd ding, paint chip or scratch - I put it all down to having fun and enjoying, based on my personal taste, the finest sports car built. In fact I believe Dodge built the car specifically to my tastes and I just reason that there must be a lot of other folks out their with tastes just like mine - me being the unique and free thinking bloke that I am. HA!
I would forget about these cars as an investment vehicle!!!!!!
Buy cheap automobiles and expensive real estate.
Vipers are going to continue to depreciate - simply the result of massive supply in the high performance automobile catagory.
California real estate - continues to boom, drop off a bit, and go through another boom.
$60,000 correctly invested in real estate will get you a much bigger capital gain over the next 10-15yrs than $60,000 invested in a Viper.(even if prices solidify it is going to be years before we see fully restored Vipers at the auctions collecting prices above the original cost - those that do will be very low mileage units.)
Buy the car - drive the heck out of it and enjoy it.
10 -15 years from now, restore it and.......drive the heck out of it and enjoy it all over again.
These cars were built to be driven!!!!!!!!
After being real anal about keeping mine scratch free, two rear bumper incidents, a door ding, a confragulation with a deer, all the result of using it as a daily driver and track car, I finally cut loose and installed a bunch of gear that makes me happy with the performance both on and off, and as I continue to collected the odd ding, paint chip or scratch - I put it all down to having fun and enjoying, based on my personal taste, the finest sports car built. In fact I believe Dodge built the car specifically to my tastes and I just reason that there must be a lot of other folks out their with tastes just like mine - me being the unique and free thinking bloke that I am. HA!
I would forget about these cars as an investment vehicle!!!!!!
Vreracing
Enthusiast
By the time you pay for repairs, service, insurance, sales tax, property tax if applicable. The loss based on money not invested elsewhere or in paying interest if you lose less than about 600 or 700 a month you will be doing well.
Considering time in therapy and prescriptions for Prozac or Zoloft not used as well as the increased earning power of the sense of esteem and confidence that comes from owning a Viper it is money well spent.
Considering time in therapy and prescriptions for Prozac or Zoloft not used as well as the increased earning power of the sense of esteem and confidence that comes from owning a Viper it is money well spent.
onerareviper
Enthusiast
Therapy?!?!
None of us need that....
None of us need that....
onerareviper
Enthusiast
Therapy?!?!
None of us need that....
None of us need that....
RaceDeck
Enthusiast
I agree. BUY THEM AND DRIVE THEMGernerally cars are not an investment, unless it is a promotional tool for your business. The one big "unknown" as to how collectable the Viper will be is that Detroit ( and overseas) is in the midst of a horsepower-war (GT-40, Z06, GT-2,SVT,Z8 etc...) and there is bound to be some real exciting cars comming out. As for the GT-40, I think they are shooting for 1000 production in the first year....with a MSRP at around 100K, which means that they will go for $120 to $150K. Ford is also comming out with a Gt-500/Mach 1 style mustang in 2004...so I hear....
SO if you like to "Drive'em" this is all good stuff!
SO if you like to "Drive'em" this is all good stuff!
onerareviper
Enthusiast
Yeah,
I agree with the 'DRIVE IT' mentality. And the HP wars may produce cars that can rival, or dare I say beat the Gen II performance (maybe not, only time will tell). BUT THE GEN I AND GEN II VIPERS WILL ALWAYS BE DESIRABLE. Let me tell you why - LOOKS!!! The Gen I/Gen II Vipers were the WET DREAM of an entire generation. People see them, and there jaws drop. This will never change, and leads me to believe the Gen I and Gen II Vipers will be a great collectable - FOREVER. The car has already reached legendary status. That's not to say your money isn't better invested elsewhere, as automobiles are a poor investments. But, as far as automobiles are concerned, I think the GenI/GenII Viper is one of the wises automobile purchases when considering resale value/collectable status....
My .02
I agree with the 'DRIVE IT' mentality. And the HP wars may produce cars that can rival, or dare I say beat the Gen II performance (maybe not, only time will tell). BUT THE GEN I AND GEN II VIPERS WILL ALWAYS BE DESIRABLE. Let me tell you why - LOOKS!!! The Gen I/Gen II Vipers were the WET DREAM of an entire generation. People see them, and there jaws drop. This will never change, and leads me to believe the Gen I and Gen II Vipers will be a great collectable - FOREVER. The car has already reached legendary status. That's not to say your money isn't better invested elsewhere, as automobiles are a poor investments. But, as far as automobiles are concerned, I think the GenI/GenII Viper is one of the wises automobile purchases when considering resale value/collectable status....
My .02
joe117
Enthusiast
Onerareviper is right. I think you guys are missing the point about the value of the cars. I'm not talking about the folks with the pristine, low miles, zaino every day cars and how they will hold their value. I'm saying that any gen1 or gen2 viper is going to always be something special. These cars are never going to be just a used car. I don't know how low a "driver" gen1 or 2 will sink in price over the next five years but I will tell you that some day they will be worth a fortune, just like a Cobra, if all the parts are there and they have never been greatly modified they will be in demand. The day of the supercar is coming to an end. Can't you guys see the writing on the wall? Electric cars, government regulations, polution, gas guzzers, fear of lawsuits? Tell me, do you think that twenty years from now there will be supercars like this? No, they are a vanishing breed and the day will come when their like will not be seen again....except in a museum. Drive it all you want but hold on to it. It's not an investment right now, but it's a car that will be worth a fortune some day. Dam*, I sound so profound sometimes;-) at least to me.
2tall
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MtHam ACR:
4 words: denial or wishful thinking.
I can't think of one car in recent years, including McLaren, Porsche, Ferrari or any other exotic, that gained value shortly after production ceased. I will concede there may be an exception somewhere, but I promise it's not the rule.
The 97 Porsche Twin Turbo S (don't remember the exact numbers, maybe 175 produced?) fetched $170-$190K new and they have done nothing but fall since. I think the last one I saw in autoweek (traditionally higher priced listings) was listed at $120K or so.
Prices will continue to erode for the next 10-15 years at least, but hopefully not a lot. It usually takes 'classic' status (25 years) before any car could potentially gain value. I don't doubt Vipers could be worth more than they cost new someday, but as a short term investment, I'd say your safe bet is tax free munis.
Eric
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Just curious (not starting anything) but didn't the F50 start selling at $248K or so and now goes for $700K?
And you had to buy it at $248K (or whatever) because it was a lease and not subject to gouging?
Also, the F40 is $400K (at least the one down the street is), and I know they didn't go for that much back in '91...
Granted, I could be wrong on any of those points...
4 words: denial or wishful thinking.
I can't think of one car in recent years, including McLaren, Porsche, Ferrari or any other exotic, that gained value shortly after production ceased. I will concede there may be an exception somewhere, but I promise it's not the rule.
The 97 Porsche Twin Turbo S (don't remember the exact numbers, maybe 175 produced?) fetched $170-$190K new and they have done nothing but fall since. I think the last one I saw in autoweek (traditionally higher priced listings) was listed at $120K or so.
Prices will continue to erode for the next 10-15 years at least, but hopefully not a lot. It usually takes 'classic' status (25 years) before any car could potentially gain value. I don't doubt Vipers could be worth more than they cost new someday, but as a short term investment, I'd say your safe bet is tax free munis.
Eric
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Just curious (not starting anything) but didn't the F50 start selling at $248K or so and now goes for $700K?
And you had to buy it at $248K (or whatever) because it was a lease and not subject to gouging?
Also, the F40 is $400K (at least the one down the street is), and I know they didn't go for that much back in '91...
Granted, I could be wrong on any of those points...
I look at it this way. Even though I am desperately hoping the prices plummet between Xmas and New Years (and only for those few days would be great) I think they'll hold strong above $27k.
My simpleton logic says that this car has already become an Icon for car lovers and yuppie dreamers around the world (I mean lets face it, what has a viper got to do with Spiderman or Cingular???) and it draws attention. With ignorant supra-types continuously wrecking theirs (not to mention the recent rashes of theft here recently) I see the gene pool drying up quickly after production stops. Especially considering the dodge is going to stop making "cheap" parts (you think a hood is expensive TODAY???). The likelihood of getting a decent working example will diminish as the years press on which will solidify the value.
Sorry FVO but your in the same sinking ship I am. Kinda makes you wanna run out and buy a corolla...
My simpleton logic says that this car has already become an Icon for car lovers and yuppie dreamers around the world (I mean lets face it, what has a viper got to do with Spiderman or Cingular???) and it draws attention. With ignorant supra-types continuously wrecking theirs (not to mention the recent rashes of theft here recently) I see the gene pool drying up quickly after production stops. Especially considering the dodge is going to stop making "cheap" parts (you think a hood is expensive TODAY???). The likelihood of getting a decent working example will diminish as the years press on which will solidify the value.
Sorry FVO but your in the same sinking ship I am. Kinda makes you wanna run out and buy a corolla...
Toby
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 2tall:
Just curious (not starting anything) but didn't the F50 start selling at $248K or so and now goes for $700K?
And you had to buy it at $248K (or whatever) because it was a lease and not subject to gouging?
Also, the F40 is $400K (at least the one down the street is), and I know they didn't go for that much back in '91...
Granted, I could be wrong on any of those points...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
To me... there is Ferrari...then everybody else. The rules of deprecation are different with Ferrari. I'm my research with getting my first Viper I have found a car that hold its value better than most but is still loosing ground. A great car to purchase and enjoy and keep your losses to a minimum. Vipers are to me an all American modern day muscle car with a classic flare.
Just curious (not starting anything) but didn't the F50 start selling at $248K or so and now goes for $700K?
And you had to buy it at $248K (or whatever) because it was a lease and not subject to gouging?
Also, the F40 is $400K (at least the one down the street is), and I know they didn't go for that much back in '91...
Granted, I could be wrong on any of those points...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
To me... there is Ferrari...then everybody else. The rules of deprecation are different with Ferrari. I'm my research with getting my first Viper I have found a car that hold its value better than most but is still loosing ground. A great car to purchase and enjoy and keep your losses to a minimum. Vipers are to me an all American modern day muscle car with a classic flare.
Roland L-Ocala FL
Enthusiast
OK,
Here is my 2 Cents worth. The Viper is a throwback to the muslecar era. Almost any 25 year old or older musclecar is worth a ton more than what it went for when it was new. They were driven, (most of them), but they still held their value if they were taken care of. Some of theose muscle cars became a classic very early in their life, like the Hemi's the Yenkos, Superbirds, and the Daytonas, to name a few. Others took longer to appreciate, but appreciate they did! (Geez I sound like Yoda!) The Viper is today's ultimate musclecar, there is a built up demand already out there for the future of the Viper, wait until the college age kids get their high paying jobs and begin to have some "toy" money to spend. (It's kinda like what Disney did with Winnie the Pooh 20 years ago, look at the stuf out there today that the yuppies of today are buying for their kids because they remember Winnie. What a marketing goldmine that was, or should I say is.) I may be 80 some years old by then and pooping in my pants, but I think the Viper will be selling for a bunch of money by then and it will sure pay for the nursing home bills. HA. (But I'm still gonna drive it now, just in case I'm wrong!)
Here is my 2 Cents worth. The Viper is a throwback to the muslecar era. Almost any 25 year old or older musclecar is worth a ton more than what it went for when it was new. They were driven, (most of them), but they still held their value if they were taken care of. Some of theose muscle cars became a classic very early in their life, like the Hemi's the Yenkos, Superbirds, and the Daytonas, to name a few. Others took longer to appreciate, but appreciate they did! (Geez I sound like Yoda!) The Viper is today's ultimate musclecar, there is a built up demand already out there for the future of the Viper, wait until the college age kids get their high paying jobs and begin to have some "toy" money to spend. (It's kinda like what Disney did with Winnie the Pooh 20 years ago, look at the stuf out there today that the yuppies of today are buying for their kids because they remember Winnie. What a marketing goldmine that was, or should I say is.) I may be 80 some years old by then and pooping in my pants, but I think the Viper will be selling for a bunch of money by then and it will sure pay for the nursing home bills. HA. (But I'm still gonna drive it now, just in case I'm wrong!)
onerareviper
Enthusiast
2tall,
The F50 was $500,000 big ones. I think the program was $250,000 down and $250,000 2 year lease if memory serves. You could not sell for the first 2 years, had to own at least 2 other Ferrari's, and have a great relationship with a Ferrari dealer. These were the requirements, just to purchase an F50. Even getting say a realistic $600,000 now, you lost a ton of money. $500,000 invested in something safe would have doubted to 1 million in that same time span. The way I see it, you lost $400,000. Of course you got to drive an F50!!!
I think the F40's were $250,000, in 1989.
* If you look at the big picture, even these cars were/are poor investments. Automobiles are poor investments, PERIOD. You just have to try and cut your losses as much as possible.
The F50 was $500,000 big ones. I think the program was $250,000 down and $250,000 2 year lease if memory serves. You could not sell for the first 2 years, had to own at least 2 other Ferrari's, and have a great relationship with a Ferrari dealer. These were the requirements, just to purchase an F50. Even getting say a realistic $600,000 now, you lost a ton of money. $500,000 invested in something safe would have doubted to 1 million in that same time span. The way I see it, you lost $400,000. Of course you got to drive an F50!!!
I think the F40's were $250,000, in 1989.
* If you look at the big picture, even these cars were/are poor investments. Automobiles are poor investments, PERIOD. You just have to try and cut your losses as much as possible.
joe117
Enthusiast
Roland is right. It may take some time but the Viper has all the earmarks of a classic yet to be.
All this talk about cars that had msrp of $480k and then went up/down/sideways, has got nothing to do with cars like a Viper. The Viper is a real car that can be bought by almost anyone who really really wants to buy one. It is an attainable goal. People like them and some people dream about them. They will be very valuble some day. Drive it? I say "of course", just don't mod it much and don't wreck it in a big way. If you had a real 67 big block Cobra today, what would it be worth if it was a "driver"? I think it would be worth a bundle, am I right? If you had one that was perfect, never driven, it would be worth lot's more....so what.
All this talk about cars that had msrp of $480k and then went up/down/sideways, has got nothing to do with cars like a Viper. The Viper is a real car that can be bought by almost anyone who really really wants to buy one. It is an attainable goal. People like them and some people dream about them. They will be very valuble some day. Drive it? I say "of course", just don't mod it much and don't wreck it in a big way. If you had a real 67 big block Cobra today, what would it be worth if it was a "driver"? I think it would be worth a bundle, am I right? If you had one that was perfect, never driven, it would be worth lot's more....so what.
