Is my Viper slow???

[valentine_viper]

I took my '04 SRT10 to the drag strip tonight and was very disappointed with the results. Temp was mid 60s and traction was excellent (maybe too good). The car is 100% stock.

1st run: Launched at 2500 rpm. Bogged bad off the line; almost stalled. Then missed second. Hit rev limiter in second. Finished in third gear at 5500 rpm. Didn't even need to use 4th gear. Ran 13.04 at 113 mph with a 2.1 60'. Shifting at or near redline.

2nd run: Launched at 3200 rpm and slipped the cluth just a bit. Came out of the hole much better, but then got bad wheel hop. Missed 2nd again (my trans is very obstinate when shifting from 1st to 2nd at full throttle). The rest of the run went ok and finished again at the top of 3rd gear. Expected to see a much better time, but was shocked to see that I actually went slower. 13.07 @ 112 mph. Shifting just before redline. Again, a 2.1 60'.

I have been drag racing for many years and I'm a pretty decent driver (although it didn't look that way tonight). I have quite a bit of experience racing high hp Supras which are very tricky to drag race. I can understand my ETs being off considering the missed shift and the wheel hop, but these issues should not have slowed me down by nearly a full second (assuming the car is capable of low 12s as it should be). What is more concerning is the poor trap speed. Even with the issues I encountered, I would have expected to see at least 115 mph or so.

Is it possible my car is not making the power it should be? I've seen numerous post about guys running high 11s to low 12s on bone stock Vipers and run flats. All the magazines have it running very low 12s. It only has 3100 miles on it and it has been babied for the most part. Seems to run fine; no indication that there is any malfunction, but it doesn't feel like a 500 hp car. I'm embarrassed to say that I ran a better ET with 9 mph less trap speed in my mildly modded Subaru that only dyno'd 290 at the wheels and weighs about the same as a Viper.

I'm not bashing the Viper. I love my Viper but I'm concerned that something may not be right with it. I plan to put it on dyno as soon as possible and check the rwhp. As I understand it, it should make around 435 to 445 rwhp (is this correct?). If it does, I'll chalk this up to the Viper being a difficult car to drag race and me needing to get through a learning curve. However, my gut tells me that the car is going to come up at least 40 rwhp short on power.

Any thoughts or advice?

 

[Bobpantax]

You said: "1st run: Launched at 2500 rpm. Bogged bad off the line; almost stalled. Then missed second. Hit rev limiter in second. Finished in third gear at 5500 rpm.

2nd run: Launched at 3200 rpm and slipped the clutch just a bit. Came out of the hole much better, but then got bad wheel hop. Missed 2nd again (my trans is very obstinate when shifting from 1st to 2nd at full throttle). The rest of the run went ok and finished again at the top of 3rd gear."

It is not the car. Vipers are different. Your experience with the Supra is commendable but probably of little help to you with the Viper. Use the search mechanism of these forums. There are many helpful hints about proper launch techniques, shift points, etc. There are even posts for the differences allowed by the use of different types of tires. Also, see if there is anyone near you with a Viper that has achieved quarter mile times in the ranges you desire at the same strip. If so, I suggest that you ask him or her if he or she will mentor you for awhile. Keep the faith. Your times will get better.

 

[Paul Hawker]

Try not power shifting into 2nd. Puts lots of strain on the driveline, and can get some wicked wheel hop.

Shift into second before redline, maybe little over 5,500. Torque of motor will still pull strongly.

 

[SnakeEye]

JMO, but you may wish to dumb the stock miser 3.07 gears for more aggressive 3.55's so you can get some real torque to the wheels - this will also help to prevent you from frying a clutch on hard launches. The stock Viper should net you around ~124mph with decent conditions. Good luck.

 

[hemibeep]

Does your altitude play into these numbers?

The stock Gen III I've seen are trapping at 121 mph with around 2.1 60'. with the run flats they were spinning most of 1st,2nd, and part 3rd.(not good track).

Times usually 12.2s.

 

[Eagle]

I ran my bone stock 04 11.96 @123 on my first run by coming out at 2200-2500 easing the clutch as its grabbing, and Shifting each time at 5800. I did not powershift second because it would never hold, I held the pedal about quarter throttle the shifted, then i powershifted third and kept it in third through the traps, but actually hit the limiter about 50-100 ft before the end. My 60' time was 1.99 which is ok but not great. I've been drag racing different cars my whole life, some automatics and some sticks. I dont think you can ever even use a run as a refence to what the car will actually run when you miss a shift. If you granny shift the car you should be able to get it to run in the mid-low 12's with a good 60'. Find a nice low traffic area and launch the car a few times to learn how to get it out of the hole. Hope this helps. What was your 60' time? Is your Supra a stick? If you have no experience with a stick it can be frustrating because you have to be quick and compact with shifts without losing momentum. Eagle

 

[valentine_viper]

JMO, but you may wish to dumb the stock miser 3.07 gears for more aggressive 3.55's so you can get some real torque to the wheels - this will also help to prevent you from frying a clutch on hard launches. The stock Viper should net you around ~124mph with decent conditions. Good luck.

I was going to change over to 3.55s, but then found out that Mopar doesn't make them any more. Afraid if I use aftermarket parts I will void my warrantee. Are you saying 124 mph with the 3.55s, or either way?

 

[valentine_viper]

Does your altitude play into these numbers?

The stock Gen III I've seen are trapping at 121 mph with around 2.1 60'. with the run flats they were spinning most of 1st,2nd, and part 3rd.(not good track).

Times usually 12.2s.

I wish I could blame it on altitude, but I can't. This was at Atco raceway wich is very near sea level.

I just can't believe that I was loosing 8 or 9 mph due to my driving. I had a friend who has owned some very fast cars drive it as well on the street. His butt dyno agreed with mine. He also felt the car did not pull like it should. But then again, he had never driven a Viper before. I need to get it on a dyno.

 

[GR8_ASP]

How can you determine how well the car performed if you missed a shift in each run? You need to make clean passes, adjust your launch and shift points to determine your ideal conditions and then compare numbers. As it is the numbers mean nothing as noone can determine how long it took you to get into second and how much time and speed gain was lost.

And the friend does not have Viper seat time for comparison, which makes that comparison questionable. I have been in many cars that felt faster than the Viper but were not. It is the near constant pull (flat torque curve) that makes it feel slower. You do not get that turbo rush you feel in the supra.

Just my $0.02

 

[valentine_viper]

How can you determine how well the car performed if you missed a shift in each run? You need to make clean passes, adjust your launch and shift points to determine your ideal conditions and then compare numbers. As it is the numbers mean nothing as noone can determine how long it took you to get into second and how much time and speed gain was lost.

And the friend does not have Viper seat time for comparison, which makes that comparison questionable. I have been in many cars that felt faster than the Viper but were not. It is the near constant pull (flat torque curve) that makes it feel slower. You do not get that turbo rush you feel in the supra.

Just my $0.02

The missed shifts (which I recovered from quickly) cost me at most 2 to 3 mph and .3 on my ET. I have logged hundreds of passes on the drag strip on numerous cars over the last 25 years. I've made just about every mistake that can be made and have a pretty accurate feel for how much they cost me. I'm not trying to dismiss the fact that the Viper is a unique car and posesses driving characteristics much different than a turbo car. My racing experince isn't limited to turbo cars. I also have raced numerous american muscle cars including some big block Chevys and Fords. The kinds of mistakes I made generally affect ET more than trap speed. I'm fairly certain that if I had laid down a perfect run, my trap speed would have been 115 at best, which would still reflect less hp than most other SRTs seem to produce. With a set of drag radials, I could have knocked close to a half second off my ET, but I don't think my mph would have been much different.

Atmospheric conditions can make a big difference too and this has also crossed my mind. There was a C6 vette there that couldn't do better than a 13.3 (I didn't see his trap speed) which is well below that cars potential as well. So maybe it was a combination of bad driving and unfavorable weather. If the dyno shows hp in the normal range, I'll gladly eat crow.

 

[Racer Robbie]

There are a lot of low cost options that will make your car a rocket. Also you need to ditch the junk stock shifter. It would take me a book to tell you what you need to do to get the performance you are looking for. You can look at my web site at http://www.members.aol.com/AtroRacingTeam/PRODUCTS/AtRoRacingsProductCatalog to get some ideas. Fell free to call or email me anytime. Robbie

 

[SnakeEye]

I was going to change over to 3.55s, but then found out that Mopar doesn't make them any more. Afraid if I use aftermarket parts I will void my warrantee. Are you saying 124 mph with the 3.55s, or either way?

[/QUOTE]

You'll likely deliver better ET's and a couple extra mph with 3.55's AND your clutch will thank you for it in the long run.
Also, a gear change should not effect your warranty in any material way. Why not ask your local Viper tech to do the swap?

 

[WANTED]

YOUR SLOW NOT YOUR VIPER JUST KIDDING YA.

my best times with my 03 and 04 srt's were 12.06. best 60' 1.8's

THE SRT IS A VERY HARD CAR TO DRAG RACE.

WHY? 3 WORDS, TRACTION TRACTION TRACTION

i ran my basically stock 02 rt/10 today at cecil county on stock tires
and my best time was [email protected]. I WAS NEVER ABLE TO GET EITHER ONE
OF MY SRT'S TO RUN LIKE THIS.

PIC OF THE RUN (LOOK AT MY DIAL TIME AT THE TRAPS IN PIC THEN LOOK AT TIME SLIP

KEEP AT IT, GOOD LUCK, YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO RUN LOW 12'S - ON A ABSOLUTE
PERFECT RUN HIGH 11'S (MAYBE) I TRIED AND TRIED BUT NEVER RAN 11'S BUT IT
DID HAVE IT IN IT.

TOM

 

[Snakester]

The hard part is that we often read about people who are running great times with a LOT of time dragracing the Viper, on a well prepped track.

My first time at the dragstrip (with the Viper) was equally disappointing, spinning badly in 1st, hitting the rev limiter in second and missing 3rd, and I got a 13.1@ 110MPH.

But having multiple runs to get a real better feel for the Viper's power delivery helps a great deal.

Your 60' time of 2.1 is a good indication of what's going wrong (besides missing shifts).
And shaving a mere 0.2-.3 seconds off of the 60' time can translate to a half second gain in your ETs.

You would probably make much better times by simply running from idle and shifting at 5500RPM.
The Viper's big V10 makes TONS of torque down low, and it doesn't need 3500PRM launches to spool up the turbo, and in fact you will just spin the stock tires badly and get wheel hop, as you experienced.

On my first track day I was able to shave that 13.1@ 110MPH down to 12.4@ 118MPH, after about 6-7 runs.

Later in the night I found that I could go up to 2000RPM and slip the clutch a bit to avoid bogging the engine, but a harder launch would result in more easily spinning once I hit 2nd (without speed shifting), so I shifted a bit earlier 5500RPM and that helped.

I later added a B&M shifter (among other mods), and practiced a fair amount running through the gears, and it was a real help (I haven't missed a shift since). Plus it feels better in normal driving as well.

Ironically, being relaxed (but not granny shifting) helps getting consistant and better times. I've improved over my first trip to the track, even if I'm still not approaching the best times of more skilled/experienced drag racers.

I'd say that your car is most likely just fine mechanically. You just need to take the Viper dragracing on a test and tune afternoon (rather than having big crowds and pressure of grudge match runs) and get a lot of clean runs under your belt to find the best balance of launch RPM, clutch release, shifting familiarity, and throttle application in the Viper to lower your ETs and gain MPH through the traps.

Best of luck, and remember to enjoy the race!

 

[Racer Robbie]

"Also, a gear change should not effect your warranty in any material way."

I would want to get that statement in writing form DC.

 

[Racer Robbie]

I do not want to upset anyone here so this is in my opinion only. Vipers are road racing cars not drag racing cars! That is their true intended use.

Now I know i am going to get razed for this statement, but like I said it is in my opinion.