Is there a used Viper guide here? Want to be a new owner soon...

[cayenne]

Hello all,
New to the forum here...been doing some searching, and maybe I'm just not getting the search terms right, but, is there posted here somewhere a useful guide for a Viper noob interested in purchasing a used Viper?

I'm currently the owner of a 1986 911 Turbo Porsche. And while I love the car...I've spent TONS of money every few months trying to keep it working. I have heard the Viper, for being a high end car, is quite reliable. I test drove one a couple weeks ago...was very fun..and I'm wanting to sell my car, and get a used Viper.

I'm looking at 1993-1996 which would be in my price range. I have dodged marriage a couple of times, and no kids that I know of....so, this will be my daily driver as the current car is.

After driving this car...I found that I really don't know WHAT to look for or look out for in buying a used Viper. I've heard the Gen I cars had troubles with the headgaskets? I'd heard that Dodge actually replaced whole engines for this...is this true?

The dealer where I test drove the '94, said the car had 11K miles on it, but, the engine only had about 3K due to replacement...this sent up a red flag with me...but, if replacement was done by factory...should this not be a danger signal?

Are there other things I need to look for?

The A/C on this car, which apparently had been sitting stored awhile, took a little while to get cold. Is this normal? I'd heard the A/C on the vipers could really run ice cold....

I asked the dealer if this was a one or two owner car...he said he didn't know, and had bought the car in CA at auction. This sent up another red flag? I thought auction cars were mostly for salvage or flood cars....but, then, thought may be that rarer cars like Vipers might be moved around the country this way...any ideas here?

What is the opinion here of buying a Viper on eBay? I'm in New Orleans, LA, and there is such a level of poverty here and in the state...that the option of buying a viper here is going to be pretty much nil. Has anyone here bought one online? How did you handle it?

One last question, not as much on the used info topic, but, being that I live in NOLA, a fairly high crime area...and no covered parking. How do you alarm your cars? Motion detection in the cab? Any recommendations there?

Also, anyone have hardtop brand recommendations?

Well, this is turning into a short novel, so, I'll close, but, thanks in advance for any direct answers to these questions, suggestions for topics I may have missed....or general stories you could relate in particular for purchaseing a RT/10 used...

cayenne

 

[Bill B]

I don't think that I would use a Gen 1 as a daily driver. When I get more time later I'll address your other questions.

 

[Viperfreak2]

Gen I would not be a good daily driver for 99.9% of the population. You'd have to have a really good aftermarket top and side curtains. The GenII's are much more liveable and I used my GTS as a daily driver, no problem. The SRT is perfect.

AC isn't very good on any of the early cars. Even my 02 GTS took a while to cool down.
Don't use E-bay, call Bill Pemberton. He'll find you a Viper to fit your needs. (I'm not the only one with this opinion)
I used to be in the Porsche business. The 86 turbo is a very refined car compared to the Viper. Boring to me, but great compared to an early Viper as a daily driver. Viper parts can be high like the Porsche, you MUST ask here before a purchase! You'll usually hear from a couple different people trying to get your business! Much better than the 'take it or leave it' attitude of Porsche parts dealers.

 

[chadhere]

Hey!

What price range are you looking for?
I actually bought my 97 GTS off of a post on this site. It was just over a year ago. It was ssstrongviper's car, a previous member here. When I was in the market, I searched Autotrader, the classifieds on this board, and several sources. I have bought 2 vehicles off ebay, but I didn't do the same with the Viper, because about that time, there were two auctions that closed with Vipers being sold that turned out to be scams, and that scared me away. I found the GTS I finally bought listed in a post on this board, but it was in San Diego California, and I am in St. Louis Missouri. I had a member of this board go take a look at the car, and test drive it for me. He called me on his cell while he was looking at the car so I could experience the "virtual tour." Class act! After he gave me the thumbs up on the vehicle, I arranged financing, and had the vehicle shipped for about 1,200- 1,400. It was worth it!!
I'm sure I'm not nearly as educated as others on this board, but some of the things to look for would be obviously the history of the vehicle. I made the mistake of purchasing an S2000 from Atlanta without running carfax. Iit was a chopped car with a washed title! It was too late by the time I found this out. Expensive lesson! #2 Tire wear. Want to make sure it is even. Have someone from this board, or someone you trust look at the car. Check for the obvious signs of leaks or recent leaking problems. Most cars will have slight interior wear, especially where the seatbelt crosses over the side bolsters. This is normal from what I have seen. Also check the hood alignment. I have seen a lot of Vipers with poorly fitted hoods! This is a pet pieve of mine, as it makes the car look cheap, or like a kit car. Was the car raced, or driven hard? These are the obvious things one would check into I'm sure, but someone here will probably give you some more detailed or not-so-obvious things to check into.

And now, the self-serving part of my post:
After owning the vehicle for a year, I have to go ahead and sell it now, since I just purchased a new home, and need the cash. I don't want to be without a Viper for long, so I will probably purchase one again within 8-10 months after I settle into the new home, but this time, I will probably go with something that already has a supercharger or TT, if someone would actually want to part with it!!! The car for sale is a 1997 GTS. Red, with the few usual mods:
Smooth tubes
K&N
Corsa exhaust
high flow cats
EBC brakes ( front )
Roe cooling switch

Running just over 500 hp at the crank according to previous owner. Car has 21,000 miles, and has ran perfect for me. Never raced at the track, but it's eaten a few Vettes here and there. It was used in an advertisement recently for a local car care products company. It does have a small ( dime sized ) area of paint under the hood on the drivers side that looks a little discolored if you stick your face up to it. From my research on this site, it is an easy and cheap fix, and usual for 96-98 Vipers. If this is a problem, let me know. It is NOT visible when hood is closed. Car has been very well cared for, and never abused.
If you are interested, feel free to contact me: [email protected]. Email me your phone #. If not, I hope my post was helpful, and wish you good luck in your search!!!

 

[chadhere]

Also, not sure about leaving a Viper out in a high crime area. Yuck. Of course, I live in St Louis, and never had any problems, but I kept in garaged, or under a car cover during the week, and drove it mainly on the weekends.

 

[cayenne]

Gen I would not be a good daily driver for 99.9% of the population. You'd have to have a really good aftermarket top and side curtains. The GenII's are much more liveable and I used my GTS as a daily driver, no problem. The SRT is perfect.

AC isn't very good on any of the early cars. Even my 02 GTS took a while to cool down.
Don't use E-bay, call Bill Pemberton. He'll find you a Viper to fit your needs. (I'm not the only one with this opinion)
I used to be in the Porsche business. The 86 turbo is a very refined car compared to the Viper. Boring to me, but great compared to an early Viper as a daily driver. Viper parts can be high like the Porsche, you MUST ask here before a purchase! You'll usually hear from a couple different people trying to get your business! Much better than the 'take it or leave it' attitude of Porsche parts dealers.

Thanx so far for all the quick responses. Well, I only live a short distance to work...about 5-10 min away...and am a single guy....and really can't afford two cars, nor do I have a place to park more than one off the street. In New Orleans...land is a premium...

My price range is in the $32K ball park...and that lands me mostly at the '93-'94 Gen 1 cars. I have to either trade mine in at a dealer...or sell mine first...and ride my motorcycle/rent a car till I can find a good deal on a good Viper.

I'm hoping I can find one with a hard top and the sliding windows I'm reading about (vipermania.com?). It does rain a LOTdown here...so, need a good roof and will get a cover for the car too. I've also read the the Michelin Pilots are the tires to get for wet weather....

I'm hoping with what I can get out of the Porsche...I can finance about $20K-$22K for the Viper....at 72 mos...would keep my car payments about what they are now.

Thanks for all the info/suggestions so far. Is there a good classifieds section for Vipers ya'll know of? All I've really found it autotrader.com...there's a nice sounding one in AL that I'm thinking of taking a look at in a couple weeks...it is $32K.

I test drove this one:
http://www.baldwinmotors.com/Viper.html

He's wanting $38,500 for it...pricey as far as I've been seeing out there so far. And this was the one I mentioned being concerned about with the rebuilt engine, auction car...and also, on the passenger side, right near where the side pipe comes out..was slight dented in...but, noticeable. He didn't seem to know much about the car at all...said he had changed the liquids in it when he got it a year ago...so, with all that...I'm a little 'leery' on that one...

Of course I plan to run a CarFax check on anything I start seriously looking to purchase. Is CarFax the best service or does anyone recommend other ones.

Thanks for the help so far...enjoying reading all the posts in here...I'm about at page 15 so far...

cayenne

 

[scottgf]

Hey Cayenne,
Your situation sounds alot like mine was 4 years ago when I bought my 94 . I had to scrape together every penny to get the down payment for it.
First off I really dont think a gen. 1 would be a very good "only car" plus parking outside would be a drag.
If there is any way you could find covered parking, and scrape up a couple grand for a "******" maybe a old Civic or Sentra that would be a good thing.
As far as the Viper is concerned... I have had mine for 4 years now and have only replaced a P/S hose ($40.00) and done few oil changes, the thing has been very good.I have driven it about 30,000 miles. It is getting the head gaskets replaced as I type, they were beginning to seep slightly, my Viper tech said I could drive it for a long time without trouble, but my ext. warranty was going to expire, so I am having them changed now ($200.00 deduct).
If you are interested, a guy I know has a Red 93 (no a/c) he is thinking of selling. I think it has about 8,000 miles on it. I was going to buy his back 4 years ago...We actually had the deal done and at the last minute he backed out (I was pi$$ed) but he just couldnt part with it....But now he is thinking of selling it cuz he never drives it. The car is in the Los Angeles area, if you want you can e-mail me and give me your number...Ill pass it along to him.
When I saw it last it was VERY nice.
I think he would take mid to low $30's for it, but dont hold me to that...I am kinda guessing.
Sorry for rambling....good luck to you.
Cheers,

 

[ViperJoe]

HTH

Used Viper Questions:
General:
1.Year?
2. Price?
3. Mileage?
4. Clean title?
5. VIN #?
6. Existing lien?
7. In service date?

Equipment:
1. Stock / original, or minor / moderate modifications (K&N filters, smooth tubes)
(headers, hi-flow cats, cat-back system, or more?) Rear wing?
2. Exterior and Interior Color? (Body stripes?) Interior mods?
3. Nature of CD player (single in-dash, trunk player, etc.)?
4. Soft-top, hardtop, or both?
5. Bag for soft-top?
6. Bikini top and bag
7. Tonneau cover?
8. Car cover?
9. Existing Factory warranty / extended warranty (or provide after-market warranty)?

Condition:
1. General overall condition (any nicks, chips, scratches, window cracks, hood cracks etc.)?
2. Involved in an accident(s), damaged, repainted, etc.?
3. Condition under front bumper / front lip spoiler?
4. Condition of top(s)? (Soft-top sagging? Exterior condition?) Scratches on sport bar? Sport Bar cap missing?
5. How maintained? Records? (One owner? How many and how long) Documentation / Paperwork? DOCUMENTATION AND HISTORY
6. Leather condition? (Split/cracked/worn?)
7. Tire condition? Brand/Size (Reasonable tread?)
8. Wheels (condition, nicks, curb rash?) Stock wheels for the particular year or aftermarket
9. Carpet / Floor mats condition?
10. Smoker / non-smoker?
11. Nitrous or other power adder used?
12. Used for track events (strip, track, Viper Days and autocross)?
13. Condition of the rocker panels (top and underside)
14. Condition of inside the door / rocker area
15. Scrapes under front bumper / spoiler?
16. Bottomed out?
17. 998 / 999 recall work done (if applicable) and done CORRECTLY. Documented?
18. Head gaskets (Gen1) Documentation? Arrow rebuild?
19. Hood alignment (symmetrical?) Any hairline cracks? Hinges keep hood up?


Buying from a dealer
1. Processing fees?
2. Taxes? (out of state?)
3. Delivery
4. Available warranty


Differences between GenI and GenII: there are other differences (besides the exhaust) that stand out:

1. The engine
The majority of reference to “GenI and GenII” refers to engine changes, as there are several differences between the two engines, not the least of which is horsepower. GenI was rated at 400hp, later GenI(GEN1.5) (96) were rated at 415, and the GenII is rated at 450 (ACR & GT2 rated at 460 due to smooth tubes and filters).

2. The hood
The GenI cars have "smoothie" hoods with no NACA duct between the headlights and no vents above the wheel wells. The cars look different from the front with these changes.

3. Suspension
Changed to GenII suspension in 96. Both the GTS and RT have the same GenII components.

4. Exhaust
Went to rear exit exhaust in 1996

5. Other changes
Power windows, airbags, steering wheel, method of opening the doors, differential housing, CD player, speedometer, wheels, all changed from GenI to GenII

 

[Schulmann]

Yes the best choice is a Gen 2 viper.
That one you can use for daily commuting.
The gas mileage is also "very good" compared to other cars.

Check this: http://www.geocities.com/andkovacs

 

[cayenne]

Yes the best choice is a Gen 2 viper.
That one you can use for daily commuting.
The gas mileage is also "very good" compared to other cars.

Check this: http://www.geocities.com/andkovacs

Wow...thank you for all the replies so far!! Very helpful....

As far as gas mileage....not a concern of mine. I only get between 9-10 mpg in the 930....I figure when you have cars like these...you don't look at the gas pump for prices.

Does anyone know of good online classifieds for Vipers...or particularly good dealers for used ones? I found www.woodhouse.com based on a name suggested by an earlier reply...but, their site only indicated they had inventory of models 2001-2004.

In response to the post about the guy with the 93 out in Los Angeles? Sound interesting, but, I most DEFINITELY have to have an A/C....it is not an option in New Orleans with the jungle heat that sets in down here in summer.

Can you put an optional AC into a '93? Any suggestions on how much that would cost?

I do think the coupe would be more practical, but the ones I've seen have the tail pipes..I think the car looks much cooler with the side pipes....

Was the tail/side pipe an option or just a change between years?

Anyway, thank you VERY much for all the info so far...this is really helping me develop a good checklist of things to look for. I have contacted a local Chrysler/Dodge dealer and they say they had qualified people to service a Viper...so, got that out of the way...

cayenne

 

[scottgf]

Hey Cayenne,
Regarding adding a/c, its been done, as far as adding side pipes to a gen 2, its been done as well, I would ask Jon B. from parts rack,, he could tell you how much it would cost.
BTW: I think that 2 of the first people you should talk to are Bill P. From Woodhouse Dodge ( for purchasing the right Viper) and Jon B. from Parts Rack ( for purchasing parts, adding a/c, side pipes etc) these guys KNOW THEIR STUFF.
Cheers,

 

[Wild Bill]

Call Bill P at Woodhouse and tell him what you are looking for. Also have you looked at the classifieds on this site?

Good luck on your search-it took me over 4 months to find mine.

Bill

 

[JWVIPER]

Any Viper is a great Car. The Gen II's are more civil in my mind and can be used more. I own a GEN I and love the raw race car edge it brings. It is my 4th car and used for fun only. Gen I will no longer be on wtty while many Gen II's still have and can still add wtty in case they have expired. Good Luck, the people on this board are the best source of reference for any Viper info.

 

[Bonkers]

Others here will give you great advice on what too look for; let me hit on some of your other concerns:

I've heard the Gen I cars had troubles with the headgaskets?
Yes they did. In fact a car not having the Gasket recall has lower resale value. Any dodge dealership can take the VIN and help you determine if it was done.

I'd heard that Dodge actually replaced whole engines for this...is this true?
Yes. Depending on dealership and owner some people did finagle new motors and Arrow Rebuilds out of the deal. I know of two cars that have gone through multiple warranty motor replacements.

this sent up a red flag with me...but, if replacement was done by factory...should this not be a danger signal?
A danger signal? Possibly. If you really like the car to some research. If a qualified dealership did the swap then chances are the cars okay. If someone like Chuck Tator or Woodhouse did the work then don't give it a second though. If Bill's Garage and Beauty Salon did the work... nuff said...

The A/C on this car, which apparently had been sitting stored awhile, took a little while to get cold. Is this normal? I'd heard the A/C on the vipers could really run ice cold....
Ice cold. I would have the system checked for leaks. Could be a pinhole leak and ten second fix, but if its a compressor or line leak then expect a $1500 repair bill (trust me I know...)

This sent up another red flag? I thought auction cars were mostly for salvage or flood cars...
The biggest problem with auctions is that you never can tell where the car is coming from (hence why auctions are usually cheaper than most places.) If you truly like the car then put in some elbow grease and research whatever you can about it. I keep logs on every car I can, the VCA has a registry then could help, dodger dealerships might be able to get you some past history, even carfax can be quite a tool (note: dual meanings to the last statement ) There is even a slim chance that someone here on the boards might recognize the car you're looking at.

What is the opinion here of buying a Viper on eBay?
Considering how many scams seem to be running these days on ebay it shocks me how few complaints I have heard about purchases made there. If you go the ebay route be VERY careful. I wouldn't bid on a car unless I had the time to fly out and look at it personally - trust me a $500 plane fare could save you thousands in grief.

Good luck.