Kumho, Cats, and cruddy Dyno reflection.....

genXgts

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Time to share my thoughts after 500 miles on new tires and exhaust mods.

Bald OEM from 97 MXX3's had various chunks of rubber missing, after much debate went with Kumho Ecsta V700s all around, $1350 Cdn installed and balanced out the door (about $880 US, best delivered price to MI, $700 from tirerack).

These things stick, bottom line. What was once a wheel hopping smoking diaster on full throttle rollons in first gear, and a half shaft stressing debacle on a full throttle slam into 2nd is now nary a chirp, 100% grab with no warmup, no joke.
Even on an attempt to break them lose from a roll, as in let off and snap to WOT they still do not break, it's insane. No more losing to lower Hp cars off the hop and playing catch up, it's over. If anything I should be able to snag a few carlengths off unsuspecting 4.10 equipped monsters around town and hopefully fiend them off until the run out of gear is my hopes. Unitrax could be next stop.

Downside, the wheelwells sound like the Maytag at full spin, only you added $50.00 in change and not clothes. So far not one chip, it's all contained in the wells, but is scary sounding. My sills are far from perfect, and could use a shot of paint anyways, if long term damage occurs, I'll paint them, period. You are more aware of gravel on the roads, although was always concerned on Mxx tires as well, so not much has changed in that regards.

Pulled the rims and had to use a flathead to yank out some rocks that had literally imbedded into the rubber they are that sticky, and I have yet to smoke them up and get them hot. Even during normal driving the confidence in the corners is flat out awesome, can fling this thing into the twisties like a go kart, oversteer comes on predictably and not the dreaded switch from under to over that tends to have pics posted at wreckedexotic.com. Keep in mind my previous experience is 7 year old bald Mxx3 tires so your mileage may vary, pun intended.

Next up exhaust, mothballed my OEM system end to end, and bolted up OEM 98+ shorties and Roe Ovals 3 inch with the precat welded section. Jethot coated everthing to the rear muffler section, including OEM resonatoers. Left the rear OEM muffler from the new system in place, in hopes of dyno isolating the header and cat gain and then continue with dropping the rear **** and then getting a gain off that alone. I know, opposite conventional wisdom, was looking to keep volume levels decent, and the note is not much changed with keeping that rear **** in place. That thing is headed for scrap metal bin as my 421 stock dyno was reduced to 418 yesterday at our VCA dyno day (in attendance with several Vipers that hit within a horse or 2 of last years readings for reference). Was my car making less power, not dyno variation, smoothing, humidity or any other variable. Not good, thank the lord I won the longest drive to dyno day and had some Ultra 94 coupons to cruise home on to console my letdown! Thanks Nabil!

Bottom line I think the rear **** is restrictive enough that my increased airflow up to the rear **** is now hurting power by now backpeddling more air back upstream. Will drop it out and X pipe the portion and see what will happen then. I don't think the noise level will be too bothersome....

Ran heat shields on the headers thanks to Chuck numerous posts of cars catching on fire, even with coated headers. Did drop the side sill insulation that melted the adhesive and was laying crooked on the cat on the drivers side and yellowed up my sill godd on that side. It was toast, in multiple pieces, resembling charred spareribs gone bad. I scuffed the inside of the sills and painted them with POR15, a high heat barrier that radiates heat off the paint and does much more than a simple high heat paint that allows the heat to go thru without discoloring. The carpeting up to the sill and plastic trim piece is now the same temp as the rest of the cockpit, you would not know the pipes even run thru there, what an improvement. Even after shutoff and heat soak at fan on temps, nothing. The sill still does get hot, but can lay your hand on the sill anywhere and leave it on, it's hot, but not scalding hot, plan on getting one of those laser temp guns and doing some testing.

This post is getting too long so I'll stop there, met some new faces yesterday and convoyed up to TO and back with 1badbite, which was a blast. Back to his place for a few beers and burgers and I was on my way, a great day all in all, just not too keen on the drop $3000, skin my knuckles and lose 3 hp affair. Told the guys a bad day at the dyno is better than a good day at work.

And finally was not able to eclipse last years record top end of 280 km/hr (175 ish) on the way to dyno day as I brought a female co-passenger along and did not wish to subject her to my stupidity. Had to make do with 220 km/hr a few times, sooooo much safer!!!:)
 

phiebert

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Hey Ryan, so the Kumho Ecsta V700s are that good are they? Hmmm, I guess they're what I will go with next because I'm getting pretty tired of exactly what you describe...losing the first 100 feet of the race and having to catch them later!
 

varanus

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Kuhmos stick well, but I thought it was all contained in the fendewells too. Now my fender lips looks like it has about 50 chips in it.

I highly reccomend you get the 3m clear and have it put on to protect the paint. Otherwise by the middle of summer you will see what I mean.

Just a bit of advice I wish someone had told me before.
 

varanus

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Ryan, could you elaborate on how to do the sde sills with POR15? Where do you get it.
Do you remove all insulation in the sidesills then sand and spray and put the sidesills back on without the insulation.

Are you also saying you jet coated the cats too?

thanks
 

Casey

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Ryan, sounds like you had a great day, even with the unexpected numbers. Taking off that huge muffler in the back has got to open up some better flow! How does your GTS sound now with the changes?

Kumho, Kumho, Kumho, yes or no, yes or no! [******], I may never make up my mind! Your discription sounds like they stick much better! I don't think I would worry too much about the side sills either. But what about other areas of the body? Will they take a beating also?

Thanks for all the details!
And hey, your not married yet, so don't be afraid to scare your Female Friend in the passenger seat! Get her blood flowing a little! :laugh:
 

joe117

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I hear the stones inside the wells and it sound's bad but I can't see any chips or marks on any paint. My Exta V700s have been on about 1k miles. They are so sticky and they do so much to improve the car that anyone not using them is obviously not interested in performance.
And on top of that they are inexpensive.
How long will they last? Well, they come with very little tread to start with and they are soft. I'd guess they won't last 10k. Do you care?
 

Paolo Castellano

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Ryan, one of the things I am unsure of regarding the Kumho Ecsta V 700 tires is the fact that they are only W-rated(168 MPH) as compared to the Y-rated(186 MPH) Pilot sports. The other thing I have heard about going the stickier tire route is the possibility you go over some sand or dust and it gets all stuck to the tire surface. I have a friend who won the One Lap of America(He's obviously a good driver). He spun his car on the street going around a corner he takes every day into the oncoming lane of traffic. He had G-force r-1's a few years back when this happened. I would love to have more traction on the street, but when he told me this and knowing it is rated for a lesser speed, I am leaning towards the pilot sports. How many people here have run these Kumho ecsta V-700's on the street where the roads have lots of rocks and dirt/sand? I am curious if anyone has had a problem like my friend had.
 
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genXgts

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Hey Gang, thanks for the replies,

I will monitor the chip situation, my car is in nice shape, far from a garage queen, but I do drive it 5-7K miles a year. I will be surprised if this tire will last that long in the back, maybe a 2nd set back halfway thru.

My roads are in decent shape over here, and fairly clean, I seem to wash my car just about every time I drive it and now hit the tread with a scrub brush and knock off any stuck debris, a decent tradeoff in my book for the traction, I agree with you comments Joe, to be restrained by normal tires, and slip slide in corners when Neons are pulling you on the inside is not good in my book.

Here is a link to the coatings:

http://www.por15.com/category.htm

sorry I'm in quick reply and have to bolt......cut and paste

I think the side sill insulation is a joke, with no solid mounting points to the sill, and glue, epoxy, or gum is going to loosen up from the heat and drop the stuff on your sill, much like mine did OEM. Then the problems start, fires, heat transfer from the stuff touching your cat and then creeping up into the sill along the insulation, not good.

scuff the inside of the sill, it is an elaborate procedure with this Por15 (which Gerald recommended), long process to do it right. I also did the insulation that stays in good shape on the inside of the pipes (attached to the car).

Yes I did jet hot coat EVERYTHING from the header to the rear muffler section (and will coat that as well with my new X pipe setup). Then I will have end to end ceramic coating. Cats, resonators, hell even the clamps. Surely helping contain the EGTs in the pipes and out the back where they belong......

thanks for the input, I'll keep an eye Kukmho situation!

Paolo, thanks for the heads up on the ratings, I was aware of the lower rating but recall reading that to be branded at that range the casing had to withstand that speed for hours, is that true? This is off the top of my head from articles years ago. My car does see the 170-180 range, or however fast it goes, but only for a few minutes.

I will say in blasts up to 130-140 on Sunday the car felt like glue, which was not the case on my Mxx3 OEMs. Again, 6 years old and little tread surely that plays into the equation.....

I'm outta here,
 

MES

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A few comments:

On the street my REAR Kumhos lasted 8,000 miles. My REAR pilot sports lasted 12,000 miles and the original MXX3 18,000 miles. The sports are sufficient for stock or bolt on Vipers as long as they are new and warm your not going to get much tire spin. The Sports when warm could handle around 550rwhp before losing traction in first. The Kumhos I don't know the limit in first grear because they could hold 630rwhp without spinning, when warm. The Kumhos WILL hydroplane very easy, even when new BE CAREFUL. After 5,000 miles the Kumhos become hard and less sticky, but still better than the sports. I have run Sports in the front and Kumhos in the rear, now I have Goodyear F1 GS-D3 285/40/17 in the front and a Kumhos in the rear (2nd set) I've had no ill effects from mixing the two brands. Normally people don't recommend mixing brands so use your own judgment. Florida is full of sand but I've not noticed a difference between the Kumhos and sports as far as picking up sand. From a stop on the STREET the Kumhos stick BETTER than M/T ET streets, on the track ET streets work MUCH better than the Kumhos. If your running around on the street with Kumhos you will have no equal from a stop, you'll kill everyone off the line. Bottom line if your stock or bolt on use the sports, if your traction challenged (Nitrous, supercharged, etc.) get the Kumhos :D
 

BlueGTS

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MES, varanus & others running V700's in the rear.

I had these tires on the rear of my previous car and had no paint problems what so ever. The stick generated from those tires is unreal. But now people are bringing up chipping problems. Are most of the paint problems due to having R-compounds on the front tires and the stones hitting the side sills and fenders? My question is, if I just get Kumho's in the rear only, will I need to put 3M tape on the rear fenders? Has anyone seen chips from running R-compounds in the rear?
 

ROCKET62

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Great Info by all on the Kuhmo's. I'm in the market for tires as well and the price difference between the Kuhmo's ~ $800 installed vs. ~ $1400 for pilot sports are a factor in the decision. I'm leaning towards the Kuhmo's for the traction and the fact that I can almost get two sets of Kuhmo's for the price of one set of PS.

Other thoughts on total milage for a stock '93 driven on the street appreciated!

ROCKET62
 

varanus

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I liove my Kuhmos, but gravel has really taken a toll. Don't say I didn't warn ya. If someone tells me how to post a pic i will do one of the fender lips and then you'll see how bad it is. I will be repainting it and putting on 3m this time.

BTW kuhmos hook on the street great when driven a little to warm up. But at the dragstrip I found that the wait in between runs cooled them off to much and they were slippery. Even small burnouts wouldn't heat them up enough. I think the driving around heats them up better, maybe the heat goes deeper in the tire?

With 575 plus the kuhmos will spin in first at 2000 rpm drops but then again I also have 3.54 gears
 

Paolo Castellano

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MES, Aaron and Varanus, From your posts, it seems you have no problems with picking up sand and gravel on the street with the Kumhos. That is interesting.

Ryan, I think you are right about the whole sustained speed thing in respect to the speed rating.

More to think about.......
 

Motor City Mad Man

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I don't care about your tires and this performance crap. Just post pics of the girl you took to the dyno. Preferably in a bikini. :D

Back to your dyno though. Do you think maybe they used a different correction or smoothing factor last year than this year? The standard correction factor gave me the most hp, but usually people quote SAE corrected dyno numbers. Check on the side of your charts to see what it says. Read my post in the Racing and dyno section. I downloaded my dyno charts for the last 3 years and played around with the different factors you can apply and upped my rwhp by about 20 using certain factors. I used the free Dyno Jet viewer software off the internet.
 

Paolo Castellano

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Actually Paolo if you reread my post, I had problems with gravel.

Varanus, I did read your post and you had mentioned that the gravel chipped your paint. I am more interested in how it affected your overall traction in regards to possibly spinning out and having none if the tire surface would become coated with sand or gravel. Like you said, the 3-M stuff should take care of the chips. Let me know, thanks.
 

meggleto

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Guys,

If you have concerns about the speed rating of the Kumho Ecsta V700's you can get the Kumho Victoracer V700's.

Both have about the same characteristics.

The Victoracers don't come in sizes above 17inch rims but the Victoracers do have a Z rating unless you are getting them in Honda rim sizes.
 

varanus

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Actually Paolo if you reread my post, I had problems with gravel.

Varanus, I did read your post and you had mentioned that the gravel chipped your paint. I am more interested in how it affected your overall traction in regards to possibly spinning out and having none if the tire surface would become coated with sand or gravel. Like you said, the 3-M stuff should take care of the chips. Let me know, thanks.

Noit sure if I understand you. Are you asking if the tires had more of a propensity to losing traction in a turn if they got coated with gravel like if you went thru a gravel patch on the street then hit a turn?
If that's the case I don't know as i usually slowed down when I heard gravel spray to try to save the paint. Now the kuhmos always have gravel sized rocks in them 24 hours a day as they are so soft and gummy they imbed and I don't feel like picking out the gravel. In that respect I always have some gravel in my tires and traction is never an issue. I suspect going thru a gravel patch and hitting a high speed turn immediately before most of the gravel flies off may not be optimal.-just like if you hit it with the michelins. In other words i don't believe gravel sticking in the tires would lose traction any more than stock tires and most of the gravel does fly off. But for most driving I am not concerned about losing traction unless I hit a heavy gravel area i.e I can hear the gravel hitting.

Hope this answers your question.
 

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