M&M header vs Billy boat headers

[tito#14srt]

For those that have either the m&m header how would you compare to an all stainless steel header such as the B&B?
Quality wise which would last longer? Pros and cons
I'm currently spraying so would like to know which would be best for my setup?

I have removed cats and added a magnaflow exhaust and looking to get headers now. Thanks

 

[fuelman]

I always found good power from the B&B, I never had the M&M headers. I have always had them jet coated.

 

[First Strike]

I have M&M headers with the B&B cat back exhaust, the headers come coated inside/out. I am very pleased with the headers,no codes/perfect fit.

 

[mbccenter]

Both make good power. Stainless makes a higher pitch sound and makes more heat without the coating. The B&B 5 into 1 collector always leaks. Stainless also moves a lot. That is the reasons we make the headers at M&M they way we do

 

[tito#14srt]

Ok thanks guys I was just seeing which one you guys prefer..I have owned before a ram srt and I had the B&B headers and catback and there stuff is great quality as far as the m&m I couldn't say first hand since I never had them but seems like they are good quality also only difference is they are mild steel coated instead of stainless. Price wise they are only few hundred bucks difference.

 

[tito#14srt]

Both make good power. Stainless makes a higher pitch sound and makes more heat without the coating. The B&B 5 into 1 collector always leaks. Stainless also moves a lot. That is the reasons we make the headers at M&M they way we do

How do the m&m headers bolt up at the collector vs the B&B isn't it the same way? The m&m don't have the leak issue?

 

[Camfab]

Lots of thoughts on Stainless vs. coated mild steel.

Okay I decided to make this simple, show me one top motorsports team that uses coated mild steel headers.
Show me any OEM that doesn't use stainless steel when the manifolds are of a tubular design.............

I've been welding for 24 yrs., much of it in Stainless using the Tig welding process. I started with mild steel headers in the begining, then graduated to coated and finally ended up in stainless. I began welding specifically to build headers for a project car that I could n't buy an off the shelf header. Two years of schooling, just for fun, turned into a passion.

To answer your specific question is difficult, as my assumption is that your looking for the ultimate in power and durabillity under use with Nitrous oxide. Generally speaking, because torque is not an issue with spray, you'd be better off with a five into one design header with a larger primary tube size and collector volume. Stainless steel has far better durabillity than any other commonly used metal. Stainless has many grades that are applicable for exhaust design and the better the grade the better the heat tolerance, as well as the cost increase. Coated mild street headers are a decent hi performance street upgrade and do provide some minimal thermal shielding. In a high heat application they will fail miserably.


"Hi performance" ............... my definition............. quite possibly makes more power at the expense of long term durabillity.

 

[tito#14srt]

Thanks for the honest opinion I think I made up my mind imma go with the B&B stainless 5 to 1 collector and if anything I could always get them jet coated or wrap them in exhaust wrap for heat reduction. Thanks!

Lots of thoughts on Stainless vs. coated mild steel.

Okay I decided to make this simple, show me one top motorsports team that uses coated mild steel headers.
Show me any OEM that doesn't use stainless steel when the manifolds are of a tubular design.............

I've been welding for 24 yrs., much of it in Stainless using the Tig welding process. I started with mild steel headers in the begining, then graduated to coated and finally ended up in stainless. I began welding specifically to build headers for a project car that I could n't buy an off the shelf header. Two years of schooling, just for fun, turned into a passion.

To answer your specific question is difficult, as my assumption is that your looking for the ultimate in power and durabillity under use with Nitrous oxide. Generally speaking, because torque is not an issue with spray, you'd be better off with a five into one design header with a larger primary tube size and collector volume. Stainless steel has far better durabillity than any other commonly used metal. Stainless has many grades that are applicable for exhaust design and the better the grade the better the heat tolerance, as well as the cost increase. Coated mild street headers are a decent hi performance street upgrade and do provide some minimal thermal shielding. In a high heat application they will fail miserably.


"Hi performance" ............... my definition............. quite possibly makes more power at the expense of long term durabillity.

 

[uvbnbit]

I have the B & B's. yes, over time, I had the aggrevating leaks in the tubes. They (the tubes) are two piece which make installation a bit easier but more prone to leaks. Only way I could eliminate 99% of it was to disassemble, scuff, and re assemble.

 

[MoparMap]

Lots of thoughts on Stainless vs. coated mild steel.

Okay I decided to make this simple, show me one top motorsports team that uses coated mild steel headers.
Show me any OEM that doesn't use stainless steel when the manifolds are of a tubular design.............
I've been welding for 24 yrs., much of it in Stainless using the Tig welding process. I started with mild steel headers in the begining, then graduated to coated and finally ended up in stainless. I began welding specifically to build headers for a project car that I could n't buy an off the shelf header. Two years of schooling, just for fun, turned into a passion.

To answer your specific question is difficult, as my assumption is that your looking for the ultimate in power and durabillity under use with Nitrous oxide. Generally speaking, because torque is not an issue with spray, you'd be better off with a five into one design header with a larger primary tube size and collector volume. Stainless steel has far better durabillity than any other commonly used metal. Stainless has many grades that are applicable for exhaust design and the better the grade the better the heat tolerance, as well as the cost increase. Coated mild street headers are a decent hi performance street upgrade and do provide some minimal thermal shielding. In a high heat application they will fail miserably.


"Hi performance" ............... my definition............. quite possibly makes more power at the expense of long term durabillity.

I think one of the big reasons for this is emissions now. The exhaust systems have to last the life of the car and then some, so they need to use a material that will survive the environment longer. I design heavy commercial trucks and have seen this with the latest crazy diesel emission standards. We're on the hook for any failure in the exhaust system for the life of the truck, so if there's a rusted through pipe dumping emissions it comes out of our pocketbook to fix it, regardless how old the truck might be.

Not saying there's anything wrong with other materials though. I have mild steel coated headers on my Dart 5.7 Hemi swap and love them. They're beautiful to look at (even just the satin finish), and manage heat very well. You can reach in and touch the manifolds 15 minutes after the car has been shut off without burning yourself. Compare that to my 71 Vette's old black painted headers and I can't touch those for a good hour after they heat up.

 

[tito#14srt]

I have the B & B's. yes, over time, I had the aggrevating leaks in the tubes. They (the tubes) are two piece which make installation a bit easier but more prone to leaks. Only way I could eliminate 99% of it was to disassemble, scuff, and re assemble.

When you say the tubes are two piece is that on the side that bolts up to the block or the connection on bottom by the 5 to 1 collector?

 

[mbccenter]

The tubes just slip into the colector on the B&B and will always have leak problems. They will also take twice the time to install. We are Viper owners here at M&M and built these headers to be the highest quality out there for a fair price. We have had 0 failures and with the mild steel and does not move with temp vairiances like stainless. The sound is much better also. We could have made them from stainless but like the mild steel much better after using the other headers.

 

[Twinturbostang]

I will say from talking to the phone with M&M they are very helpful knowledgable guys and they got my business based on the.

 

[tito#14srt]

I do have to admit I've heard a GTS with the m&m headers no cats and a borla and sounded pretty mean at idle with the lumpy cam note

 

[tito#14srt]

The tubes just slip into the colector on the B&B and will always have leak problems. They will also take twice the time to install. We are Viper owners here at M&M and built these headers to be the highest quality out there for a fair price. We have had 0 failures and with the mild steel and does not move with temp vairiances like stainless. The sound is much better also. We could have made them from stainless but like the mild steel much better after using the other headers.

Do you guys run right after the header a flex pipe in exhaust for flexibility or it's all hard pipes throughout?

 

[uvbnbit]

When you say the tubes are two piece is that on the side that bolts up to the block or the connection on bottom by the 5 to 1 collector?

yes. each cylinder has 2 pc tube then slips on to collector.

 

[TowDawg]

I've had the M&M's on my car for a few years now and love them. I have to say the main thing that sold me on them was Matt himself. I was having the engine rebuilt under warranty and when the engine came back Arrow, the shop noticed the stock manifolds were cracked (VERY common, at least on Gen III's). I had to get a set of headers quickly, but I had already been reading up on them and was leaning towards M&M anyway.
Anyway, I called Matt to see what he had available and you could just tell from talking to him on the phone that he was a straight shooter and a great person to work with. He said he had a set that he would ship that day and send me a tracking number. When I didn't get a tracking number that night, I was worried and planned on calling in the morning. I didn't even get a chance to call before he called me (no, I didn't have to track down a Viper parts vendor to find out what was going on). He said when he was about ship them, he noticed a small dent on one of the tubes. He didn't want to send them to me like that, so he personally stayed late the previous night and welded a new tube in place, so he could get it coated the next morning. He knew I was in a time crunch with the shop, so he then shipped them NDA and no extra charge to me!
I know you're asking quality and performance opinions, and I've never had the BB headers before, but Matt & MM have the best customer service I've come across in the Viper world and I love the sound and performance of them on my car.

 

[dragon rider]

Cannot give an opinion about B&B because I haven't use them. M&M headers are great, and Matt is awesome to work with. I'm a novice DYI guy and called Matt several times for help installing the headers. Great look, sound and no leaks.

 

[dragon rider]

Cannot give an opinion about B&B because I haven't use them. M&M headers are great, and Matt is awesome to work with. I'm a novice DYI guy and called Matt several times for help installing the headers. Great look, sound and no leaks.

 

[mbccenter]

Do you guys run right after the header a flex pipe in exhaust for flexibility or it's all hard pipes throughout?

No flex pipe. It is a solid set up all the way to the cat or muffler.

 

[tito#14srt]

No flex pipe. It is a solid set up all the way to the cat or muffler.

Ok I didn't know if over time not running a flex pipe in the exhaust system would create a leak at the connections since it's straight pipe...only reason I ask is because the oem exhaust brings flex pipe correct?

 

[mbccenter]

OEM does have a flex pipe. We have had no issues without it and with long tube headers there is no longer room for it.

 

[Sybil TF]

I do have to admit I've heard a GTS with the m&m headers no cats and a borla and sounded pretty mean at idle with the lumpy cam note

I have this except I have h-flow cats, it sounds wicked!!