Porsche TT GT II v. Viper: Need Fuel for my Argument

[RockyTop]

My co-corker (a Porsche Boxster owner and P-car fan) and I are having a good-natured argument over whether the GT II driven on a track (other than the old Nurburgring) by an experienced driver would beat a slightly modified ACR (headers, exhaust and brakes).

We started this over an article where a P-car racer drove a stock GT II and a stock ACR at Thunderhill and the GTII won by driving laps just under 2 minutes (which I interpret to be 2 minutes or they would have said 1:59 or 1:58 etc.). The ACR ran in the 2:04s. No mention whether he had much Viper druiving experience.

I looked at the Viper Days times there and see that the top racers ran in the 1:55s. Consequently, I argue that a slighly modified ACR (isn't that basically what the Viper Days GTI cars are - - shod with Hoosiers or slicks ?) was driven on the same track at times 4-5 seconds faster. I conclude, that even taking away 3-4 seconds for Hoosiers, it's at worst a dead heat for the ACR. I then note that the mag driver currently campaigns a Porsche 911 in a professional series. Put a ptofessional Viper driver in the ACR (e.g., Tommy Archer) and the laps times get even lower for the ACR.

He says I am off my rocker because you cannot compare the lap times due to potentially varying trak condiitons. I retort that shoprt of ice or rain (no mention of these in the mag article), no track condition is gonna amout to 4-5 seconds difference. And so it goes... Any thoughts ?

 

[Jim Hodel]

Hi Rocky, I read the same article in SCI and have wondered how much tuning would be required to make up the approximate 4.5 second gap between the GT2 and the Viper.

The GT2 is the fastest street legal Porsche ever produced and costs somewhere around $200,000 so your friend (and SCI) should be a little embarrased to compare it to a Viper that costs about what a Carrera 2 costs. I suppose when the $500,000 Carrera GT comes out, some magazine will compare that too a Viper.

Anyway, I'd like to have seen Overbeek drive a Viper with a 4 wheel brake updrade (Stoptech, Alcon, Brembo, etc) and have tuned the suspension by setting corner weights and shock stiffness. A little tweaking would probably be required to dial in the optimal handling balance.

I'd personally start with a GTS rather then an ACR, and add the brakes and suspension from the aftermarket. The Unlimited class Vipers are mostly race cars, and I'm more interested in seeing what mods could help a street Viper into the low 2 minute range. BTW, a 2:04 at T-Hill is still **** fast for a car on street tires and also shows what a professional driver can do.

Jim

 

[Ron Hickey]

In an earlier thread, someone suggested a better match-up would be the GT2 vs the Viper Competition Coupe, which, by the way, is still $100K cheaper than the GT-II.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Two different class cars. The obvious comment is "For more than twice the cost it better be faster." **** it can probably beat a Ferrari too but I know which one I would rather have. A Ferrari is music at 150mph. A Porsche sounds like a soup'd up Volkswagon. Looks much the same too.

 

[Jim Hodel]

The Viper Competition Coupe is not street legal so the comparison to a GT2 would not be valid in my opinion. I wonder how the SRT 10 will stack up? How much faster then a stock Gen II do you think it'll be?

As far as the GT2 goes, it's super fast, but I agree with Chuck, I'd probably rather have a 360 Modena. Not a bad choice to have to make eh?

Jim

 

[Gerald]

Please, lets leave price out of this...

We would be no better than the vette guys are to us or the Mustang guys are to the vettes or the rice guys are to the ......


Gerald

 

[Janni]

Here's one... I read recently that the Porsche has been "dumbed down" to save us from ourselves. In this particular case, if the GT2 senses application to both the brake AND the gas, it will cancel the input from the accelerator.

Not exactly a track friendly car... and NOT a feature that I would want.

Probably doesn't help with your argument, but I thought it was interesting.

HOWEVER - having a professinal Porsche driver take out the new car and drive the bejeezus out of it, and then throw that same peson into the Viper is just not fair. the Porsche was a natural extension of his race car... handled very predictably and he was able to got the most out of it in the shortest possible time. That same driver in the Viper was to far down the learning curve to be competitive in the Viper.

 

[Jim Hodel]

Hi Gerald, did you read the article in SCI? It was pretty much a hatchet job on the outgoing GenII model. I do think that price is a consideration. With all the extra money available for development, the super Porsche to ought to be more well prepared then a Viper

It was Sports Car International that did the comparison. I wouldn't expect my Viper to beat a GT2. And, I'm not bad mouthing the Porsche. I think it is a very cool car.

BTW, for the additional money, I expect more out of my Viper then I do from my Z28 or Z06.

Jim

 

[Tpup]

I think that's a tough argument to make. If you modify the Viper, the owner of the GT2 can simply adjust the suspension. The GT2 has fully adjustable suspension and is set for street use from the factory. In a recent article, David Murrey (Big time P driver) said he felt he could get 7 seconds per lap by adjusting the GT2 suspension...

I think a GTS with upgraded brakes and suspension would have a better shot than more hp imo...

Roy

ps. I have spent time at Road Atlanta in my GTS and own a TT...

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gerald:
Please, lets leave price out of this...

We would be no better than the vette guys are to us or the Mustang guys are to the vettes or the rice guys are to the ......

Gerald

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know what you're saying, but for me it depends on who picks the fight. Whoever starts it needs to leave price out of it. If a Mustang comes after me and I smoke him then he best leave price out of it. He knew the price of my car when he came after me so what did he expect? To beat me? Well he didn't so tuck his tail and leave. But if I go after him then win or lose, he can throw price in my face.