Replacing rivits in side sill - how many?

[95Viper]

OK, stored 95 Viper for winter...before storing I removed side sills for winter project. Plan on replacing rivits with stainless steel ones to avoid corrosion problems I've heard about. Also replacing mounting screws with new Dodge ones of a different material (silver versus factory black).

Car only has 2K miles and it's never been in rain. No corrosion or bubbling paint. Still replacing though. Sills and insulation looked almost new. OK here's my question.

There are 10 or so rivits holding the insulation. There are 4 or 5 more at the end near the exhaust outlet holding another small piece(I think aluminum) in place.

Do all (about 16) have to go? I assume yes but thought to ask.

 

[Viper Wizard]

DON'T replace them! Get rid of them!
The reason that the original rockers would get corrosion on them was because of the rivets! They will expand faster then the rocker = rupturing the paint on and around them, allowing moisture to get to the aluminum.

Your best bet is to fill in the holes and glue in your heat shields. All the new rockers are that way!

 

[95Viper]

Thanks Chuck...I read the problem was with bi metal corrosion and stainless would fix it. I have two problems with glue though.
1. The inside of my sill has the insulation and then a fairly large plate, looks like a sheet of aluminum and most of the rivits go through the insulation and through this plate and it sandwiches everything together. How to glue the plate?
2. The rear end of the sill(near the rear tire) has 4 or 5 rivits holding a small triangular shaped piece together. I can't see how I could get glue there to hold this together?

I could take pictures if that helps but I assume they're all the same.

 

[Marv S]

Have you seen J. Scott's fix?
http://www.viperclub.org/menus/index_how_illup.htm

 

[95Viper]

His fix is to replace the screws holding the sill on...I'm talking about replacing the rivits holding the insulation and back piece on.

 

[Anthony - 98 GTS]

Craig-

I suggest DRIVING your car - '95 and 2,000 miles??

On the subject - the newer models have the insulation glued in place.

 

[Viper Wizard]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 95Viper:
Thanks Chuck...I read the problem was with bi metal corrosion and stainless would fix it. I have two problems with glue though.
1. The inside of my sill has the insulation and then a fairly large plate, looks like a sheet of aluminum and most of the rivits go through the insulation and through this plate and it sandwiches everything together. How to glue the plate?
2. The rear end of the sill(near the rear tire) has 4 or 5 rivits holding a small triangular shaped piece together. I can't see how I could get glue there to hold this together?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Craig,
It's not a bi-metal issue, it's the expansion rate from the heat.
As for the plate, rivet the plate to the insulation and then glue in place.
The triangular plate is the same on the new rockers, that's not where the problem/corrosion accrues.
That's how we fix them here.

 

[95Viper]

Thanks, I will do this! What glue should I use? Especially since it gets so hot in there.

I also want my car "looking" original so maybe I can plug the holes from the inside, squirt some glue in the holes, and glue on a stainless rivit top with a small stem to give the rivit look. Of course, I'll use one with a small stem that can't expand more than the hole.

 

[RedEnuf93]

Bump.
Glue???
How to fill in the holes?

 

[Viper Wizard]

After you drill out the rivets holding the heat shields, find a body shop that is good with aluminum and have them weld the holes closed, then re-paint rockers. You can also use Hi-Temp paint on the inside. Use Hi-Temp structural glue to hold the heat shields in place. That's the right way to fix them!!

 

[Viper Wizard]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jerry Scott[CO]:
95Viper
The problem on the early Vipers is called Galvanic corrosion. When two dissimilar metals come in contact, there is a voltage transfer similar to what happens in a battery. Moisture and heat around the rivets accelerate the problem. The corrosion is caused by the fact that steel rivets were used to hold the aluminum sill pieces together, which causes paint to lift near the contact areas. I live in a dry climate in Colorado and have not had the problem on my 97 GTS. I believe that the problem was fixed in the later years by using aluminum rivets, but I'm not sure when it was changed. JohnB may be able to get you this information. Aluminum closed end pop rivets are available and may be all that is needed to fix the problem. The steel screws which hold the sills on, do not seem to cause the problem since they are somewhat insulated from the aluminum by the paint on the surface of the aluminum.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe we should hang a pice of Zink off of our back bumpers?

Effected vehicles: 92-97 Roadsters and Coupes
If you look at the rivets they are ALL ALUMINUM!!
The PROBLEM is the heat expanding the rivet faster then the Rocker! The rivet tail is closest to the heat source!
THE FIX IS TO GET RID OF THE RIVETS HOLDING THE HEAT SHIELDS IN PLACE!!
The corrosion problem is gone on 98 and up BECAUSE the rivets are GONE and new coated screws!

Galvanic -

Are you a salesman?

 

[Jerry Scott[CO]]

95Viper
The problem on the early Vipers is called Galvanic corrosion. When two dissimilar metals come in contact, there is a voltage transfer similar to what happens in a battery. Moisture and heat around the rivets accelerate the problem. The corrosion is caused by the fact that steel rivets were used to hold the aluminum sill pieces together, which causes paint to lift near the contact areas. I live in a dry climate in Colorado and have not had the problem on my 97 GTS. I believe that the problem was fixed in the later years by using aluminum rivets, but I'm not sure when it was changed. JohnB may be able to get you this information. Aluminum closed end pop rivets are available and may be all that is needed to fix the problem. The steel screws which hold the sills on, do not seem to cause the problem since they are somewhat insulated from the aluminum by the paint on the surface of the aluminum.

You may want to consider my write-up for replacing the sheet metal attaching screws with stainless machine screws, but this will not help the corrosion problem. It will make a much stronger attachment for the sill and the screws will not fall out. Stainless has a closer galvanic voltage to aluminum and may be better than carbon steel against aluminum. Let me know if you try the aluminum rivets to replace the steel, and how it works for you.

See theses web sites for a better explanation of Galvanic corrosion: http://www.corrosion-doctors.org/Aircraft/galv-design.htm http://www.ocean.udel.edu/mas/masnotes/corrosion.html
Jerry Scott
Morrison, CO