I did a few searches and know this has been brought up before, but has anyone successfully fabricated a custom intercooler for their Roe set up? Was about to buy the water **** system, but may wind up having a friend of mine who can build damn near anything take a look at it and see what he thinks. Thanks
Roe Supercharger Intercooler
- Thread starter Free2go
- Start date
speedracervr4
Enthusiast
PM EllowViper.He has researched it the most, but I don't think he actually produced one. He does have a rather nice **** set up along with a modified intake that seems to work rather well. Hood clearance is a huge issue with fitting an intercooler under the blower.
If you do figure out how to produce one, I'm sure you'll have a list of people willing to pay for it!
If you do figure out how to produce one, I'm sure you'll have a list of people willing to pay for it!
EllowViper
Enthusiast
Hood clearance is no issue...you need to capitalize on the vast canyon below and behind the manifold. You can fit a small car between the heads and on top of the bell housing. Just saying....
Yes my tuner makes one.A buddy of mine roadraces with it on a built engine as it dramatically REDUCES air inlet temp much much better than that water **** stuff The cost is around 10k installed In 2 seasons other than rebuilding the blower 2x per year there have been no issues mooded I believe you do need a hood mod .Shot me a PM and ill give more info PS i dont think my tuner will get involved on a CAST COMPONET CAR but you can ask hiim yourself
speedracervr4
Enthusiast
All that space is below the intake ports on the heads, isn't that an issue with air turbulence?
1BAD, if your buddy can get the price down to around $1-2k max I'm sure plenty would be interested.
EllowViper
Enthusiast
I'll pick up the torch again with this project at some point this year since I agree there is a market for it. It just an issue of family vs. tinkering...and a desire to drive the car vice sitting half apart. I like to do these sorts of R&D excursions during the hot summer months here in FLorida when driving isn't as much fun as the cooler months.
The nice part about an intercooler is not having to worry about keeping another tank topped off. I've never used water/**** myself, but seems like it would be a hassle depending on how long a tank lasts and the cost to keep filling it. Guessing it would probably take more than a few tanks to equal the cost of the intercooler though.
Yeah, the idea of mixing it and the rate at which methanol evaporates and the thought of windshield wiper fluid seems troublesome. But, it is working. I'm surprised "El Crocodillo" over in the Alley hasn't fabricated an intercooler for his Roe yet.
EllowViper
Enthusiast
From a PM on the subject. Take it for what its worth…
"I've messed with 100% water, 100% methanol, and every combination in between. The best all around results have been with -20F washer fluid. It has around 35% methanol and is under $2.00 a gallon. So I just go with it. My manifold volume has been increased from 2 to 5 liters so I have the space to locate a big injector right under the blower outlet. Allows me to inject 2x 325ml W/M both before the blower (as guys typically already do) and I can spray 1x800ml into the hot compressed stream after the blower. I really need to get one of those air temp gauges the Mustang guys use to measure their blower outlet temps. Cheap ones are under $100. Expensive ones around $280. One thing I like about W/M vs just having an intercooler is the benefit you get from the water vapor. Controls combustion temps, inhibits detonation, flash steams keeping valves/chamber clean, as well as increasing cylinder pressure during combustion since steam expands 800 times its volume. So at the end of the day one has to evaluate simply having a cooler/denser air charge (intercooler) or having the benefit of a cooler air charge and high humidity (W/M injection). THe best option would be to do both IMO. Spray prior to the blower to get a good cool air charge into the blower and help keep the blower cool, and then a good intercooler to further get the charge cold. Once thing too, spraying before the blower helps seal the blower rotors and well as keeping them cool. Folks always get concerned about spraying before the blower…aka Isn't it bad for the rotors? In actuality, its just cool humid air being compressed. Its not a spray hitting the rotors since everything flash evaporates. Probably not much different than driving on a hot summer day in a down pour when the air is fully saturated."
I just got back from a 2 hr drive and was into boost pretty good. I only used 1.5 gal of fluid and 1/2 tank of gas. So with a 2.5 gal reservoir, I have yet to actually "run out"
"I've messed with 100% water, 100% methanol, and every combination in between. The best all around results have been with -20F washer fluid. It has around 35% methanol and is under $2.00 a gallon. So I just go with it. My manifold volume has been increased from 2 to 5 liters so I have the space to locate a big injector right under the blower outlet. Allows me to inject 2x 325ml W/M both before the blower (as guys typically already do) and I can spray 1x800ml into the hot compressed stream after the blower. I really need to get one of those air temp gauges the Mustang guys use to measure their blower outlet temps. Cheap ones are under $100. Expensive ones around $280. One thing I like about W/M vs just having an intercooler is the benefit you get from the water vapor. Controls combustion temps, inhibits detonation, flash steams keeping valves/chamber clean, as well as increasing cylinder pressure during combustion since steam expands 800 times its volume. So at the end of the day one has to evaluate simply having a cooler/denser air charge (intercooler) or having the benefit of a cooler air charge and high humidity (W/M injection). THe best option would be to do both IMO. Spray prior to the blower to get a good cool air charge into the blower and help keep the blower cool, and then a good intercooler to further get the charge cold. Once thing too, spraying before the blower helps seal the blower rotors and well as keeping them cool. Folks always get concerned about spraying before the blower…aka Isn't it bad for the rotors? In actuality, its just cool humid air being compressed. Its not a spray hitting the rotors since everything flash evaporates. Probably not much different than driving on a hot summer day in a down pour when the air is fully saturated."
I just got back from a 2 hr drive and was into boost pretty good. I only used 1.5 gal of fluid and 1/2 tank of gas. So with a 2.5 gal reservoir, I have yet to actually "run out"
LOL its not even close as the intercooler is hand fabricated and so large it requires a new hood .Total cost is 17k .My buddy who runs it loved the idea of the Roe Blower His intended use was-is to roadrace his Gen 2 To say our tuner HATES the idea of cooling inlet air using that water **** thing is the understaterment of the year as he will walk away from a project instead of doing something half #ss During initial testing using the water **** they measured ambient air temp into the motor and after 4 straight dyno pulls WAY TOO HIGH considering that his intended use was to beat the hell out of the thing on a roadcourse The car has survieved numerious seasons but hes smart about keeping it too long in boost if the engine temp gets up there .Even with the intercooler the blower itself reqiures constant rebuilding (2x a year )
speedracervr4
Enthusiast
I thought your buddy made it happen with the stock hood. If I wasn't worried about replacing the hood I would just buy a Kenne bell kit ($8k) for a challenger and adapt the upper intake plate. I would probably go with the 3.4L or 4.2L at that point.
EllowViper
Enthusiast
Bet he was spraying before the blower…not after…and I wonder what PSI he was getting. Take mine for instance and in a theoretical analysis. Spray before blower and get intake temp to 50 degrees. That's pretty reasonable seeing as the intake tubes are actually cool when spraying. It may even be cooler. I haven't measured. So take that 50 degree nominal inlet temp and compress to 17 PSI. That in and of itself adds 170 degrees. So you are now up to nominally 220 degrees coming-out of the blower 50+170 (not including any thermal transfer from a 200 degree blower..may actually be minimal). NOW hit it with a big shot of W/M at the outlet and measure the temp. THATs what I'm curious about. And the longer you stay in boost, the cooler things become. So more is better in that respect. Within the next 6 months, I'll install one of those dual boost temp gauges that will measure both inlet and outlet temps. Hopefully it will scale fast enough to be of value.
Sorry i didnt realize it would not fit with the stock hood( i assumed he switched hoods for cosmethic purp) YESTERDAY he told me about clear issues
EllowViper
Enthusiast
Good in principle, hard in application due to two separate systems required.
I never saw a Roe Supercharger on a Viper in person, but I saw one in an add on a Viper and it looked AWESOME, to me it looks so cool, I would not care if it only gave me 20hp, just having it under the hood is bad ass, one day I hope.
Haha! Steve that is exactly what I thought a few years ago when I saw one. I kept my eyes peeled after that and well maintained one became available not too long afterwards. A twin screw on top of a V-10 looks bad to the bone....especially when it fits nice and neat under the hood. I remember years ago I saw a twin screw on a Callaway Corvette and thought it was the most beautiful thing I had ever seen. On a Viper it was pure sex.
Steve...this one would be perfect.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dodge-Viper...38d27f21b&item=221411537435&pt=US_Cars_Trucks
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dodge-Viper...38d27f21b&item=221411537435&pt=US_Cars_Trucks
EllowViper
Enthusiast
Easy Peasy from that regard. Just a PITA to have two pumps, two resevoirs, multiple lines, fittings, and whatnot....and presumable controlled by a progressive controller. It would be hard to perfectly dial-in. But theoretically not undoable. I think a small NOS shot under the blower outlet would be a better idea...but that wouldbe a handful to tune, control, and hard to use for long pulls. It would sure cool the boost temps.
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