Service at dealership

[Don Hiltz]

Yesterday, I took my Viper to a local dealership for an oil change and chassis lube. Parenthetically, I always take my own Mobile One.

I went to the showroom to see a new Viper on the floor and by the time I returned to the shop area, the oil had been drained and the filter had ostensibly been changed. The technician was about to lower the lift. I inquired if he'd lubed it yet, and he responded that he'd forgotten!

Next, I explained that there are greese fittings above both rear wheels and the tires have to be removed to access these fittings. Whereupon, he took a small screwdriver and attempted to pry off the wheel caps. I explained that I had the tool in the glovebox, but he felt that a smaller screwdriver would suffice. He did manage to pry off the caps with only minimal damage to them and then proceeded to drop one cap on the concrete floor, again with only minimal damage. Upon visualizing the greese fittings, he then proceeded to greese them without ever wiping off the accumulated greese, dirt, and other debris from the fitting(s).

My last observation (which demonstrates my obsessive/compulsive personality) was that, upon replacing the oil filler cap, he failed to straighten it so that its message ("Engine Oil"), rather than being in the horizontal, was at an 80 degree angle.

As I explained to my wife, this serves to reinforce my commitment to personally performing routine services on my vehicles. While I can service our Durango and 300M, I remain at the dealer's mercy for the Viper.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

It's amazing ain't it? I knew a Viper Tech that was using diff fluid for the tranny to eliminate NGR.

I do all servicing on all my vehicles.

 

[FRANK]

Well...you were the one who asked for him to lube it...personally, you don't need a lube job at every oil change. Once a year is plenty...especially if you keep mileage down. If your Viper is driven here and there...a lube job every two years would suffice. Dealer mechanics are there for a reason...most are losers. DO your own work. No one touches my car no matter what the job. You are anal about the oil cap being straight though...you may have too much time on your hands...

 

[Don Hiltz]

Hey Frank.......

Thanks for your insightful and provocative response.

Tell me.... are you a full time psychotherapist/automotive technican or do you have a real job too???

If you fall into the latter category..... a sincere word of advice....don't give up your day job.

 

[Kevin ACR]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Dealer mechanics are there for a reason...most are losers.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Geez Frank, what a generalization. You really don't care who you hurt.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FRANK:
Well...you were the one who asked for him to lube it...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wrong, he paid him to do it.

 

[FRANK]

Well...as far as techs go...I feel as though that I am on the mark. Yes, there are a few in every shop who give a **** , but many don't. Someone pointed out Dan Cragin, etc. well they are a select few that do care and who have a passion for these cars. I've been in many shops and have known many friends at dealers who worked there and gave a **** . I've both heard and seen horror stories many times. I think many here feel that it is a pefect world in dealer shops.

As far as Don's experience with the tech pulling on the center caps...that is nothing new. Most techs will use a screwdriver. Some will be careful while the others pry it off and then throw it on their bench or ground getting it nicked and scratched. You have to expect this. You must assume that everyone is incompetent, unless they have proved to you that they are worthy beforehand or in the past.

Also...another truth in many cases...many techs do not like to be watched. Actually it aggravtes them. Trust me...once you leave with your Viper, often times the tech will be cursing you behind your back. I went and took my rear Viper rims to get spun balanced and tires put on. I take the tires/rims out of my truck and brought them into the shop. As I stood there - watching every move, I could tell that the guy wasn't liking the fact that I was over his shoulder. Thank God I was because the idiot tried to spin balance the rear rim backward, with the face of the rim pointing inward. Once I saw him do that I nearly grabbed him and asked him what the hell he was doing. Not only wouldn't that work, but the face of the rim would have become chewed up against the rough face of the machine. I made sure I told him that the rim was an expensive rim and that he'd have to work a whole week or better just to buy me a new one. What a *******. Incompetence is everywhere...we are forced to accept it sometimes...

 

[BigsViper]

Originally posted by Frank:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> often times the tech will be cursing you behind your back.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have absolutely no doubt this is true in all your experiences.

 

[luc]

Mechanics/techs are like every other profesionals,you have some good ones and some bad ones and the majority are in between.

The real question is the difference between your notion of "quality" and their.
As an example,I had my wife Explorer tranny replaced by the dealer with a "new/rebuilt" by Ford.
beside the fact that they had to put 2 tranny because the first one had a bad pump,I went under the car and looked at the way they did the job.
Well, the tranny is working OK but they did not take the time nor the effort to put back all the electrical connectors where they belong with the factory clips.
As a matter of facts,most of the clips were broken during removal of the connectors.

Why?
The answer is pretty simple, 99.99% of their customers don't know/don't care how the job is done as long that it is done.
It is why very few mechanics will take the time to fill the empty filter with oil when they do an oil change,even if they will do it on their personal cars/trucks.

You also have to understand how the vast majority of techs/mechanics get paid for a job.
If replacing the tranny (for example) require,is charged 6 hours in the books, but they can do it in 4 hours what happen?

The customer (you) get charged for 6 but, the dealership and the mechanic split the other 2 hours.
In this case, the techs get paid 5 hours when in fact he only worked 4 hours, and the dealership keep the other 1 hour as profit for themself.

It is such a well know fact in the industry and cars manufacturers are so well aware of it, that on a waranty work/job,where the manufacturer paid for it,the labor/time table are most of the time LOWER than an a non-waranty job.

That's mean that the manufacturer paid the dealer less than a regular customer for the same work.

That said, you have some (few) great mechanics,so if you know/use one,treat him well and make sure that he understand how much you appreciate his work ethics.

Luc.00GTS

 

[ACR Larry]

I agree with Frank to a degree on this one. Luckily Dave Jenkins is around to take care of my Viper, however, you average dealer mechanic shouldn't be trusted.

I recently had my boat serviced by the dealer. I am at their mercy for the drive maintenance because it has to come out of the water and it requires a very large hoist. I was dumb enough to have them do all the work on the engines also. After paying over $1,500 for the drive maintenance and engine tune-up I noticed that the engines did not run like they should after a tune-up. After more investigation I discovered they did not touch the engines. I ended up tuning up the engines and changing the oil myself.

Of course I sent some of the allegedly replaced parts to the dealer with a letter requesting a refund. They had the nerve to claim the parts were replaced even with the hard evidence of badly worn plugs.

I reported them to the California Department of Consumer Affairs and am waiting their response on the issue.

 

[FRANK]

Hey Bigs,

Techs don't curse me behind my back because I can do anything and everything. I don;t have to rely on mechanics - I have my own shop...I wonder if you can even change your own oil...or that is too much work for you. Oh, that's right, it doesn't pay for you to change your own oil. I'd love to see your hands...you probably could model your hands...

I bet you Zaino your car though....

 

[BigsViper]

FRANK, You forgot the NYAA, NYAAA...NYAA, NYAA, NYAAAA... I've worked on my car as much as I choose to... including oil changes and simple mods. I have also let my Tech, David Box work on it as well, with me helping and having a great time as we go. When I had my 440 6-pk Superbird I did everything, including maintenance, putting in a cam, headers, pulling the heads, changing rear gears (frequently). The reason for my earlier post is that you are SOOOOO condescending to everyone who chooses not to, or can't work on their car.

Yes all of us who have been on the board for any length of time recognize your mechanical prowess, but as far as any indication of you being a good guy or a decent human being, I haven't seen it (well, I can think of maybe one or two posts that were informative and not too incendiary) I also enjoy your humorous sig but recall the the lengthy thread that lead to it.

All I'm saying is give the techs a break. Everyone here should do their homework and find someone they can trust to work on their car, if they choose not to themselves or can't (The best Viper tech in my area doesn't even work for the Dodge dealership anymore!). If they don't that doesn't make them any less of a person or worthy of your negative blasts. (Of course from what I can tell someone like YOU not approving or liking ME is a very GOOD thing!!!) I've received a lot of great info from Tom Sessions, Rich Carlson, David Jenkins and the Techs in my area. Some of the service personnel don't care and that s*cks, just like workers in all industries. It just bothers me (and others)when you generalize and say they are all losers; even the bad ones might be trying their best, just haven't yet learned. I know some owners who don't care, get taken and yet they're happy, so what?

On second thought, don't change a thing, you are much more entertaining just the way you are!!!

PS: Yes I do use Zaino... And my self worth is not ******* in how well I do that or turn a wrench!

 

[striker79]

I wonder if the corvette guy's run into the same problems. The reason i ask is to me the viper's and corvette guy probably run into the same problem's when getting there cars serviced at the dealership your pride and joy 75-80 thousand dollar car sits next to a front wheel drive four cylinder under 20 grand econo box where the same guy could be working on both.The sad fact is that you guys have a really big problem the company that make's your car also make's econo box's and mini van's and mabey what that tech would do to a neon that neon owner would not care but if he were to do the same to your your car he would catch all kind of hell now i can't blame you for caring about your viper hell i would think something was wrong with you if you didn't but understand your weird situation there are some good people out there and yes they are "flagging" hour's so most of the time it's the easiest way possibly. Also how did you get to sit and watch them work on your car i would think they would not let you in the shop for safety reason's mainly there own hehe but like a weird man once told me would you want God standing there by your bed coaching you on how to have sex basically let them do there thing if you notice something wrong tell the service writer or owner they have to pay for anything they damage when it is in there shop.

 

[Janni]

Well, have to chime in here - spent 5 hours with Tom Sessions this weekend working on aligning both our cars - Saturday - his time. When we got there - he was working on Bernie Katz's car getting it ready for Finals - some fun new goodies for Bernie. Tom is very much a professional and has a passion for what he does. The job gets done RIGHT - things get torqued to spec, the car stays clean, and he's smart. Now I know he is exceptional, however, we have to remember the Viper is not all that complicated. Certainly for basic service, ANY good mechanic should be able to do this. The key here is to treat your mechanic with the respect that he deserves - get to know him - its amazing what a little shop talk can do to have someone take care of your car. We've had other folks work on our cars and spending a little time with them has made all our experiences positive. Going in with an attitude of superiority and general disdain for your mechanic is not usually the way to get good service. I have a few rules - one is never pi$$ off a person who serves / cooks your food. Perhaps we ought to add services your car to that list. You really need to find a person who is passionate about cars - talk cars with them. Most folks will go the extra mile for you if you treat them with decency.

Here's another idea - pull your center caps before you go if the wheels and tires are going to come off. Heck, we use a screwdriver, too - wrapped in a towel, as the owners manual is not in the car - so the tool isn't either. The ball joints certainly don't need grease at every service - they'd explode! And not turning the oil filter the right way, is not only in the advanced anal category, its probably detrimental - it should be turned X number of turns past when it makes contact - not an arbitrary number to line up to your aesthetic sense - it could result in over or under tightening. Please don't expect your tech to be getting your car ready for a photo shoot.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Janni:
never pi$$ off a person who serves / cooks your food.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good advice Janni. I spent ten years bartending and always got the last laugh.

Tell Tom Sessions my offer of free room and board for six months after finding work is still good here in Tampa. Great weather and no state income tax. We need a Viper Tech!!!

 

[luc]

Alan,

Before dropping a bomb,go talk to the service manager and tell him that no only you want new valve covers and an oil cap,but that when they are done with your car,before taking it and/or signing the paperwork,you will go over ALL the car with a magnifying glass and inspect everything (including electrical connectors and their factory tabs) to make sure that they give you back your car EXACTLY the way she was when they received her.

Things to look for are,beside electrical connectors position/tabs,damaged/scratched paint,routing of the electical wiring and hoses,clamps for hoses and wirings,damaged heat shields,dents in the firewall underneath the plastic trim piece,oil and water level,dents/damages under the cars to frame/panels,etc.

Luc.00GTS

 

[NCVCA]

Tom,

There is something to be said for no income tax in Florida and even though I haven't put enough miles on the car (street or track) to require your expertise - don't leave!!! please!!!!!

Your knowledge and expertise will be needed!

Jeff

 

[Tom Sessions]

Where to start.Don sorry to hear about your poor experiance at the dealership.Next time if you haven't done so already take a few minutes and go in before you appointment and meet the tech that will be doing your work.I have found that you can tell very quickly what type of person they are in a short conversation.If they claim to know it all or act like they know it all I would run quickly away.Smile and tell them thanks for there time.As a tech I don't mind spending time with a new customer to help build a good customer relationship even though it does cost me money since I don't make money while I'm standing and not working. I don't mind for the customer to hang out with me while I work on their car, that way if they see something that might raise a question it can be handled right then or at the same time they can also become more familer with their car.Hopefuly next time, if there is one, you can have a much better time. Not all dealership people are bad.

Frank,I would like to comment on your outlook on the loser tech but my folks taught me that if you don't have anything nice to say to someone that be quiet.Enough said.

And for the others who have spoken highly of all the techs mentioned above thank you.We are only doing our job the only way we know how - right the first time.

Chuck, sorry still not moving to Fla but thanks again.

 

[silverviper]

Well, I've had several lousy Dodge service experiences with both the Viper and the Ram, so it's not the car that's the problem. I grant most dealerships have skilled technicians who deserve respect.

Negherbon Dodge in Oakland, CA, is seriously horrible.

I took the Viper there for an oil change. Yes, I can do oil changes myself, and do them on the truck, but my driveway is very steep and sometimes I just don't feel like lying in the gutter. Anyway, they denied me the use of my "Any Dodge vehicle oil change for $29.99 certificate" which is ok, but bad advertising. They didn't latch the hood though, which is bad. They told me it was supposed to have a 3 inch gap above the front fascia, which is clearly wrong. Then, the tech got inside the car to look for the hood release after I complained. We know the hood release isn't in the car. Worst of all, they were just plain rude about it. Should be end of story, except they called two weeks later to survey me and asked if I was "completely satisfied." Uh, no. So I left a message for the service manager. He ignored it. I left two more messages, which were also ignored. I called and talked to the owner of the place, Mr. Negherbon himself. He told me that his mechanics were professional, well-trained, and well paid. Fine. He said they had all the service manuals for the Viper and should be able to do any job on it.

You know what. I don't care how much he pays his mechanics. If they can't be friendly and they don't have experience or interest to do the service properly, I'm going elsewhere.

Should be end of story again, except I had an ABS brake problem on the Dodge Ram. Took it in under warantee. This is not a rare vehicle, nor a difficult problem. Replace the sensor and the brakes will work. The computer will tell you the problem. Anyway, after several visits, they said they couldn't find anything wrong and that the brakes work, just not the ABS, so I should stop complaining. Fine, again, I'm going elsewhere.

It just really annoys me that I've spent over $100k there in the past two years, and they just don't give a hoot, even the owner.

So avoid Negherbon Dodge. Trust me on this.

Cheers.

 

[KenH]

I've only had my Viper a short time, but I have had the occasion to meet two of my local Dodge dealer Viper technicians. I have been very impressed with both. They both have been Viper techs since the Vipers first came out. In one case, the tech invited me out to stand under the lift while he changed the oil and answered all my stupid questions about the undercarriage of the car as he worked. If the techs working on some of these cars don't know how to open the hood as noted above, I find it hard to believe they are actually Viper techs. I thought only trained Viper techs were allowed to work on these cars at the dealerships. Is that not correct?

--- Ken
'01 GTS