Viper Seat Belt Issue Solvable? (long w/ pics)

Ron

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<FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Perhaps the GENIII seat belt issue is solvable. You decide.....

First, 1995 and earlier Vipers have the older style receiver whereby you must push the plunger below the shoulder to release. 1996 on up have the current GENIII receiver that releases before the plunger is below the shoulder, therefore allowing for theoretical accidental release. If today you were to order the 1993~95 style receiver (part number 4642365) you'd get a superceded part with the suspect GENIII style plunger (part number 4848541) instead. Remember also that the domestic 1993~95 Vipers had the receivers next to the console rather than by the door.

If however, you were to order the Canadian version of the same 1993~95 receiver, part numbers 4643954 (passenger side) and 4643955 (drivers side) with list pricing of $41.39 and $45.69 respectively, you'd get the older style receiver with the theoretically safer plunger. Interestingly enough, 1993~95 Canadian Vipers did not have the receiver on the console side, but rather on the door side just like 1996+ US Vipers.

In examining the receivers, one thing hits you immediately. It's about 2 inches shorter that the stock receiver. This for me is actually better as I frequently hit the thing as I enter if I forget to push it away. The downside is that for the unfamiliar user, it's a bit more difficult to find when you want to buckle up. I'm 100% used to it already. Beyond that it <u>seems</u> fine. The buckle from a US 1995 Viper and a US 1997 are virtually identical dimensionally, though I do not have access to a 1993, 94 or 95 Canadian version, so there is an <u>important unknown there.</u> (any 1993, 94 or 95 Canadian Viper owners want to trace and measure their buckle? if so, please email me with your dimensions!)

Another difference is that the 1996+ receiver uses webbing to attach to the floor bolt while the 1993~95 Canadian uses a metal strap. Both are labeled as conforming to FMVSS No. 209.

So, is this the solution? It's for you to decide. I've done some of the legwork but we need someone to measure all dimensions of a buckle from a 1993~95 Canadian Viper plus it would be great if someone more knowledgeable than I would comment on the suitability of using these parts.

I've attached the pictures below to help you in your own research:
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(The ******** the lower one is plastic and used just to hold the receiver up)
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(the electrical plugs are identical)
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p.s. There are about 45 of each side available in D/C inventory</FONT f>
 

DEVILDOG

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Ron,
Thanks for all of the research and work you did on this. Some owners may order and install the Canadian belts or 5-pts.....most owners won't do anything. None of us should have to do anything if these belts are not safe. The other post talks about the belts having a problem with the ball bearing tests so I don't understand how they ended up in our cars in the first place. There are close to 14K Vipers out there and most have the Gen III belts. DC needs to step up and do the right thing and issue a voluntary recall if these belts are unsafe to ensure the safety of all owners.
 

C O D Y

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just checked..... 1998 and 2000 GTS's have the longer belt.

I think the longer ones get in the way too. I would prefer the shorter one.
 

kverges

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I've read all the posting and a few of things struck me.

1. It was a minivan in which the problem allegedly occured (remember this was a jury verdict, which if you think is gospel tells me you have never been in a jury trial).

2. Of the 14,000 Vipers, I have not heard of any unintended belt releases in an accident.

3. I have tried and tried to release my 2001 Viper belt with my elbow (only body part that I can contort to get near the button and just can't do it).

Now I am concerned about these ball tests and so on, but I really don't feel unsafe in my car. I do not like my '93 RT/10's belts, which attach to the door, which could easily open in a bad wreck and allow me to be ejected, not to mention the location in the door does not pull me down and back into the seat the way a proper lap belt should. Not a peep over this, which was mandated as a "passive restraint" before airbags were added to the cars.

But I thought the new latch replacement info was great! Very helpful, informative and non-controversial.
 

JonB

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At VOI-2 the PAC-NW VCA convoyed to Monterey w/ B.C. members.
We discovered the different (inboard) belts at that time. It seems that Canadian law does NOT allow for door-mounted belts, as inherently unsafe if a door flies open in an accident. The doors MUST be locked in Gen-1 RT/10s to be safe. But how many lock them??

Dodge swapped ALL to inside mounts (to ease the build process) in 1996.

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In an accident, esp a rollover, your elbow and body can contort to UNVELIEVEBALE shapes and angles that you could never duplicate intentionally. Your NOSE might open that receiver!

You are driving a 'street-legal race car' ...... and I have grown quite comfortable wearing my Team Techs virtually all the time. I just dont cinch em track-tight on road trips. I leave enuf slack to reach the radar detector, radio, etc. And I still wear the OE belt over the 5 pt. Call me obsessive.
 

Steve-Indy

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GREAT POST, Ron...You are "THE bulldog of technical details". As pointed out, your PERSONNAL solution to this situation is VERY WELL designed, in my opinion. I'm sure that others equally concerned about seatbelt safety will give your observations and solutions serious thoughtwhile considering their own possible course of action. In the end, I would bet that most will do nothing UNLESS D-C decides to step in and offer a "fix".
 

cstegall

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Keith,

You are right..often a jury is used to help obtain a certain trial result while a non-jury trial often ends in a totally different result. Just because this situation has not happened in a Viper does not mean the potentially faulty items are limited to just one type of vehicle. I believe that the mini-van would actually get more exposure due to the fact that it is designed to carry multiple persons. And Keith, your car(as mine is)is not on the list of potentially faulty systems. It was great to hear that you were concerned enought to try and try yours to see if you have a problem with them. How many of us had Firestone tires, on other cars, and changed them out just because of a potential problem?
Nobody builds a perfect car...but the safety designed into the car can and should be fixable. How many lives have seatbelts saved(both those beltsystems in question and those not)since their inception?
Food for thought...was it the iceberg or the design of the ship that sunk the Titanic?

Thanks for reading, no flame ever intended, just observation..
CStegall
 

DEVILDOG

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by cstegall:


Safety Bump!

CStegall

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ditto Bump! Will bump until we get an appropriate factual reply from DC.
 
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Ron

Ron

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<FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Good news folks. A kind board member was nice enough to measure up his GENI Canadian spec Viper's buckle and it is a match for our U.S. GENII buckle. That said, one could assume that the Canadian receivers I mention in my first post will most likely address the theoretical GENIII seatbelt issue as discussed in numerous other posts. I personally have installed them in my GTS and am 100% happy with the change.

Once again however, it's for you to decide IF my research is valid as I am not an engineer nor qualified in any way on the safety systems of a motor vehicle. </FONT f>
 
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