What can I do with an extra audio amplifier?
- Thread starter PeterMJ
- Start date
Steve M
Enthusiast
With the connections, I'm not sure how you'd do it, not to mention where you'd even put it.
Do you have any info about it? I do not even know where the oem amp is located but if I would guess, it would have to be under one of the seats. I would like to do something about my stock sub and since I have this amp sitting around, it never hurts to explore possibilities. Using a DVC sub in place of OEM would allow for two amps to power the single sub, assuming they are matched and audio input can be intercepted and then split up.
Steve M
Enthusiast
Well, I know where mine used to be, and that was under my passenger seat bolted to the floor. There are two connectors that go into it, but I have no idea what the pin-outs on those are (maybe Mr. Lesser would know?). It occupies most of the available room under that seat, so squeezing two under there would be a tight fit, although you could just stand it up behind that seat if you really felt compelled.
I've tried messing with the OEM center console sub setup, and it is sub-par at best. I bought a fairly decent (at least I thought it was) CDT Audio 6.5" sub, and even powering it with an aftermarket amplifier (240 watts I think...it has since been replaced), it still doesn't get loud enough to hear over the bass produced by the V-10 exhaust. It sounds pretty decent with the engine off though...I'm just not sure figuring out a way to bridge two stock amps together would net you enough power to make a difference.
I have a single 10" in the back in a rather large sealed enclosure...guess that's the nice thing about owning a Coupe, as it gives you that option for sub placement. The stock amplifier under the seat has been replaced with a 5-channel, running channels 1/2 and 3/4 bridged to my front components with the sub channel handling the rear (300W RMS is the spec on that channel if I'm not mistaken). Sounds pretty decent considering the handicap that is the Viper interior.
I've tried messing with the OEM center console sub setup, and it is sub-par at best. I bought a fairly decent (at least I thought it was) CDT Audio 6.5" sub, and even powering it with an aftermarket amplifier (240 watts I think...it has since been replaced), it still doesn't get loud enough to hear over the bass produced by the V-10 exhaust. It sounds pretty decent with the engine off though...I'm just not sure figuring out a way to bridge two stock amps together would net you enough power to make a difference.
I have a single 10" in the back in a rather large sealed enclosure...guess that's the nice thing about owning a Coupe, as it gives you that option for sub placement. The stock amplifier under the seat has been replaced with a 5-channel, running channels 1/2 and 3/4 bridged to my front components with the sub channel handling the rear (300W RMS is the spec on that channel if I'm not mistaken). Sounds pretty decent considering the handicap that is the Viper interior.
Flexx91
Viper Owner
As was previously mentioned, the area is so small that two of the OE amps wouldn't fit anyway. If you want more power, you're better off buying a better, higher capacity aftermarket amp and placing it in the trunk area along with better sounding speakers.
In other words, an extra OE amp configured into the existing system is not worth the time and effort.
In other words, an extra OE amp configured into the existing system is not worth the time and effort.
Steve M
Enthusiast
And just so others know, there are small enough amplifiers these days that you can mount them under the passenger seat in place of the factory amp, eliminating the need to find a place to mount it in the back. Not a huge deal for some, but for me, I didn't want the amp visible from outside of the car, and I wanted people to have to look hard for it even inside the car. The Kenwood XR-5S fits under the passenger seat just fine...tight, but it fits.
Granted, the smaller ones tend to be full range Class D amps, but they still sound really, really good in this application.
Getting things loud with 6.5 inch sub is difficult without a bandpass enclosure and even then, the physics will dictate a rather frequency dropoff in low 50s at higher volumes, if you are lucky. This is why stock set up uses a crappy BP set up. Considering the location of the stock sub, you actually do not need a lot of power, a decent 8 with good excursion and small box requirement would actually do a pretty good job, supplying plenty of sounds down to low 40's. I was not going to mount the amp under the seat, more like somewhere around the enclosure, in the rear. My car is a convertible, putting everything as close as possible to the ears is the best option IMO. I have some shallow subs in 8, 10 and 15in variety, I am pretty sure I could put them to some constructive use. I understand using aftermarket amp would be better and I have a few of the potent amps sitting around, however, I have this new stock amp and it is pretty tiny, I was thinking about trying something different for once. Now, if I knew the pinouts on the OEM wiring, that would help.
Steve M
Enthusiast
A custom shallow enclosure would be the way to go with the center console...the factory one don't work for poop, no matter what you do to it. I didn't think I had the fabrication skills to do something like that, so I stuck with my trunk mounted option. I wired it so I can unhook and remove the rear sub and hook the center console sub back up very easily, but I lose all my bass when I do that
Damn kids and their loud music. I'm sure Dan Lesser has the info on the pin-outs since he's working to install the MyGig units in these cars. I could only assume they'd also be in the service manual somewhere, but I don't have one of those to check.
My OEM sub rattles pretty bad, I suspect the surround on the driver went bye bye and it probably has to be replaced. I am considering doing this because if I can pull it off, I will disturb very little in the car and the battery is already in the trunk for power connection. I guess I will have to dissect the sub area to figure out how the sub is wired. Signal voltage to the sub can be split in two without losing very much. I think this may be the time to start measuring signal voltages and driver impedance.
I think I am in trouble with Dan for my comments regarding mygig, LOL. The way factory sub is set up, one opening is for the driver and the other for the port, a ported enclosure (a mistake on my part regarding the OEM sub calling it BP, LOL). Hatchback gives you a way better place for audio improvements, convertible ***** in this regard since there is no cabin gain to help you out. From sound quality perspective, center location close to your ears in that rear panel is the best location, requiring least power to make things sound good. I was really hoping to get away from car audio and fiberglassing but it may end up there after all.
A custom shallow enclosure would be the way to go with the center console...the factory one don't work for poop, no matter what you do to it. I didn't think I had the fabrication skills to do something like that, so I stuck with my trunk mounted option. I wired it so I can unhook and remove the rear sub and hook the center console sub back up very easily, but I lose all my bass when I do that
I'm sure Dan Lesser has the info on the pin-outs since he's working to install the MyGig units in these cars. I could only assume they'd also be in the service manual somewhere, but I don't have one of those to check.
Steve M
Enthusiast
Oh yeah...I remember that now
Maybe you won't be getting those pin-outs after all I told myself that I wouldn't touch this car like I did the Camaro it replaced, but I just couldn't leave it alone. At the end of the day, it was a pretty rewarding project...IMO, the audio system sounds like it should have all along. I love listening to music when I drive, and a lot of times, listening to it loudly.
If you do go through with it and figure it all out, I'd be curious to see how it all turns out. The factory amp is certainly small, and pretty light to boot.
I guess I won't be, LOL. I may look around for a factory manual, maybe from a viper or another mopar, pretty sure they are all not different. I already have a few resin smelling viper projects but really cannot stand the rattle. As soon as the weather warms up, it is going to **** big time with the rattle. I really do not want to run new wires in this car and limit myself to just the sub. I have figured out less is more so not a chance for my 15 inch Brahma or other 15s I have to end up in the viper, LOL.
Oh yeah...I remember that now
I told myself that I wouldn't touch this car like I did the Camaro it replaced, but I just couldn't leave it alone. At the end of the day, it was a pretty rewarding project...IMO, the audio system sounds like it should have all along. I love listening to music when I drive, and a lot of times, listening to it loudly.
If you do go through with it and figure it all out, I'd be curious to see how it all turns out. The factory amp is certainly small, and pretty light to boot.
I think most of the pinouts for the sub are actually pretty straightforward from what I've seen, but then again I don't have much of the stock system left in my car. When I bought it it already had a large JL Audio 5 channel amp in the trunk (convertible) with an 8" sub in the passenger floorboard and the center enclosure converted over to two 6.5 rear channel speakers. I've yet to yank off the rear bulkhead cover to see exactly what they did exactly for mounting them though. The little fill speakers under the roll hoops appear to be absent now. I ended up making a new box to put the sub in the trunk since I've had enough complaints regarding foot space for passengers. It's not terribly impressive, but it's better than nothing and I didn't need any new parts aside from the MDF for the box.
Anyway, getting back to the pinouts, my impression from the plug at the head unit was that the head unit sends out each channel individually to the amp, so two wires for each front channel (4 total), and two wires for each rear channel. Figure in a remote turn on wire and power and ground and I think you're pretty close to filling the plug up. There might be a dedicated sub output as well, but I'd have to look at the plug closer. Not sure how the amp wires out to the speakers though as that plug was butchered for the new system. I just ordered a wiring diagram manual for my car though (04), so I might be able to help you out better when it shows up.
Anyway, getting back to the pinouts, my impression from the plug at the head unit was that the head unit sends out each channel individually to the amp, so two wires for each front channel (4 total), and two wires for each rear channel. Figure in a remote turn on wire and power and ground and I think you're pretty close to filling the plug up. There might be a dedicated sub output as well, but I'd have to look at the plug closer. Not sure how the amp wires out to the speakers though as that plug was butchered for the new system. I just ordered a wiring diagram manual for my car though (04), so I might be able to help you out better when it shows up.
Now, this is some great info. Do you know if the amp input wires feed high or low level voltage to the amplifier? I am guessing the amplifier has the frequency filters to send low frequencies only to the sub. I think, you can build an enclosure in the trunk, using the bulkhead openings for the ports and have the sub fire into the trunk, without a lot of loss of output but I would have to calculate the resonant freq of the ports for the specific driver and volume of enclosure. Can you tell me where you got the wiring diagram? I think what I will do is get an extra OEM enclosure to work with, maybe moulding off the mounting locations in the shape and then figure out how to increase the volume. I have some Earthquake SWS 8 inch super shallow subs I was going to use on my vette's doors and they should work. There is actually a way to use two of the drivers in one enclosure at half volume by building isobaric set up. Bulkhead makes way more sense to me than the footwell because of efficiency and easier wiring.
If you go to the Dodge website and look up service manuals you can look up a specific vehicle. It ends up rerouting you to TechAuthority (https://www.techauthority.com/en-US/Pages/Home.aspx). You can look up all the different manuals for whatever car they have and it'll tell you what's available. They have service manuals, owners manuals, wiring diagrams, body repair, diagnositc, etc. I think what's available depends on the car you pick, but for my 04 the wiring diagrams were a separate book for $32. My mom's 94 service manual has them included in it instead of separate.
As far as the outputs I'm really not too sure. I'd tend to lean toward them being high level outputs because of the wiring style (small gauge wires in a proprietary plug) as opposed to the usual RCA style jacks that you see with most head units. I know my mom's gen 1 has RCA plugs on it factory, so I'd assume that they would have used them if they wanted low level. Also, since it looks like a standard Chyrsler radio shared among models (like my brother's Dakota pickup), if it doesn't use an amp in other applications I'm guessing it would be high level output in the Viper still. I'd also agree that the amp likely has the circuitry build it in to handle the crossover duty of the component speakers up front and the sub in back.
Once my service manual shows up I'll probably yank the rear bulkhead cover and have a look at how they mounted the speakers in the middle. I'm not sure if they just hacked up the enclosure or made something themselves. If they just cut up the stock one I may try to make my own that fits under the cover for peace of mind and to give me something to do.
As far as the outputs I'm really not too sure. I'd tend to lean toward them being high level outputs because of the wiring style (small gauge wires in a proprietary plug) as opposed to the usual RCA style jacks that you see with most head units. I know my mom's gen 1 has RCA plugs on it factory, so I'd assume that they would have used them if they wanted low level. Also, since it looks like a standard Chyrsler radio shared among models (like my brother's Dakota pickup), if it doesn't use an amp in other applications I'm guessing it would be high level output in the Viper still. I'd also agree that the amp likely has the circuitry build it in to handle the crossover duty of the component speakers up front and the sub in back.
Once my service manual shows up I'll probably yank the rear bulkhead cover and have a look at how they mounted the speakers in the middle. I'm not sure if they just hacked up the enclosure or made something themselves. If they just cut up the stock one I may try to make my own that fits under the cover for peace of mind and to give me something to do.
I am not in a great hurry, I guess I can wait and find out what you got. Hopefully there is a way to maximize the size of sub enclosure under the bulkhead, the larger it is, the less power it would need.
