What is the GTS and SRT/10 times at "The Ring'?

[Mopar426]

What is the GTS and SRT/10 times at \"The Ring\'?

I'm just trying to see what the diffrence is bwetten the C6 Z06 and the Vipers. I know the C5's weren't even close. LOL

Here are the lastest times, the C6 Z06 seems quite impressive...

--> Only time I could find for the Viper --> http://forums1.roadfly.com/porsche/forums/cayman/6690304-1.html

Nordschleife exluding GP track 20.6 kms:
7:01 --- 176.152 km/h -- Manthey Porsche GT3 race car, 493 hp (2004), >>> http://www.manthey-motors.de/nextsh...spdf.asp?id=217
7:10 --- 173.100 km/h -- BMW M3 GTR, 450 PS/1350 kg, Jörg Müller (practice 24hrs race 2003)
7:12 --- 173.600 km/h – Radical SR3 Turbo race car, 320 PS/500 kgs (test drive 07/2003)
7:12.25 173.500 km/h – Schnitzer BMW M3 GTR, Dirk Müller, 24 hrs practice 2002
7:18.01 169.311 km/h -- Donkervoort D8 RS, 370 PS/670 kg, M. Düchting, sport auto 12/2004, http://speed.supercars.net/PitLane?...2&tID=13957
7:19 --- 168.929 km/h -- Radical SR3 Turbo (2003), >>> http://www.radicalmotorsport.com/ne...liefe/index.php

7:20* -- 168.545 km/h -- Opel Astra DTM V8 Coupe, 500hp, set-up for 24hrs race (sport auto 2003) *estimated
7:21 --- 168.163 km/h -- Blitz Supra, 650 PS (Autocar magazine 1997)
7:25 --- 168.651 km/h -- Alzen Motorsport Porsche 996, 24hrs race, Uwe Alzen
7:28 --- 166.652 km/h -- Porsche Carrera GT, Walther Röhrl,(Autobild July 2004)

7:32.44 163.911 km/h -- Porsche Carrera GT, definitive time Horst Von Saurma (sport auto 01/2004)
7:32.52 163.882 km/h -- Gemballa Porsche GTR 600 EVO, Wolfgang Kaufmann (sport auto 2001) >>> http://www.gemballa.com/news/gtr6002.html
7:36 --- 162.631 km/h -- AC-Schnitzer M3 CLS II E36, 350 hp, Michelin Sport Cup R , Mattias Ekblom
7:36 --- 162.631 km/h -- Porsche Carrera GT, factory test driver Walther Röhrl (2002)
7:39 --- 161.575 km/h – Koenigsegg CCR, 806 PS/1180 kg, >>> http://www.koenigsegg.com/news/arti...=&type=news

7:40* -- 161.217 km/h – Corvette Z06, 505 PS/ 1419.7 kg (estimated), Jan Magnusen (AutoBild 7/2005) (*mfr.), >>> http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?vi...0&tID=44953
7:40* -- 161.217 km/h -- Porsche Carrera GT, *cold and partially wet track (sport auto 12/2003)
7:40 --- 161.217 km/h -- Porsche GT3 RS, stock but Pirelli P Zero Corsa, Mattias Ekblom (ams)
7:40 --- 161.217 km/h -- Mercedes Benz McLaren SLR, Klaus Ludwig (Autobild 07/2004)
7:41 --- 160.868 km/h – Manthey Porsche GT3 M410, 413hp (AutoBild 07/2004) >>> http://www.manthey-motors.de/nextsh...spdf.asp?id=217
7:42 --- 160.519 km/h -- Mosler MT900S Photon, Joao Barbosa, 2004 (according to dailysportscar.net)
7:42 --- 160.519 km/h -- Radical 1500 SR3, 230 PS/510 kg (2002)
7:43 --- 160.173 km/h -- TechArt Porsche GT Street, 620 PS/1453 kg, (sport auto 08/2002)
7:43 --- 160.173 km/h -- Porsche 996 GT3 RS, factory test driver Walter Röhrl (MOTOR Magazine)
7:43.5 - 160,000 km/h -- Lamborghini Murcielago (Autocar magazine 2002)
7:44 --- 159.828 km/h -- Pagani Zonda C12 S, 580 PS/1820 kg (sport auto 07/2002)
7:45 --- 159.484 km/h -- Gemballa Porsche GTR 600, 600hp (2000)
7:45* -- 159.484 km/h -- McLaren F1, *estimated lap time from a video available at >>> www.pistonheads.tv
7:46 --- 159.142 km/h -- Porsche 996 GT2, 462 PS/1450 kg (sport auto 06/2001)
7:46 --- 159.142 km/h -- Jaguar XJ220, John Walton (EVO magzine 07/200), >>> http://www.jwhubbers.nl/ring/docs/evo-0007-7.jpg
7:46 --- 159.142 km/h -- SHK Porsche 993 GT2, 652hp (sport auto 1999)
7:47 --- 158.801 km/h -- Porsche 996 GT3 RS, 381hp (sport auto 03/2004)
7.49 --- 158.124 km/h -- Porsche GT3, 392hp (AutoBild 2004) http://www.autobild.de/tuning/testb...artikel_seite=4
7:49 --- 158.124 km/h -- Porsche 996 GT3 Cup, 360 PS/1207 kg (sport auto 02/1999)
7:49.72 157.885 km/h -- Honda RC30, Helmut Daehne 1993 (moto bike)

7:50 --- 157.787 km/h -- BMW E46 M3 CSL (sport auto 08/2003)
7:50 --- 157.787 km/h -- Blitz Supra, 750hp, Herbert Schürg (1997)
7:50 --- 157.787 km/h -- Lamborghini Murcielago, 462 PS/1450 kg (sport auto 06/2002)
7:50 --- 157.787 km/h – Westfield Super 7 with Hayabusa engine, >>> http://nurburgring.free.fr/Vids/Bre...vx504_1_350.avi
7:52 --- 157.119 km/h – BMW M5 (E60), 507 PS/1844 kg, >>> http://www.rhein-main.net/sixcms/de...topic_id=731907
7:52 --- 157.119 km/h -- Gemballa Porsche 911 Le Mans (sport auto 1995)
7:52 --- 157.119 km/h -- Lamborghini Gallardo E-Gear (sport auto 12/2003)
7:52 --- 157.119 km/h -- Mercedes Benz SLR McLaren (sport auto 06/2004)
7:54 --- 156.456 km/h – Mercedes CLK DTM AMG, 582bPS/1678kg, (sport auto 03/2005), >>> http://speed.supercars.net/PitLane?...2&tID=27415
7:54 --- 156.456 km/h -- Porsche 996 GT3 (sport auto 06/2003)
7:55 --- 156.126 km/h -- Caterham R500 Superlight, Robert Nearn (EVO magazine 07/2000)
7:56 --- 155.798 km/h -- Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale, 425 PS/1387 kg (sport auto 02/2004)
7:56 --- 155.798 km/h -- Porsche 996 Turbo, 420 PS/1569 kg (sport auto 06/2000)
7:56 --- 155.798 km/h -- Chevrolet Corvette C6 (company test driver Dave Hill)
7:57 --- 155.472 km/h -- Lotec Porsche 993 Turbo, 600PS/1558 kg (sport auto 05/1998)
7:59 --- 154.822 km/h -- Porsche 997 Carrera S, PASM setting “Performance”, (Walter Röhrl WHEELS 06/ 2004)
7:59 --- 154.822 km/h -- Nissan Skyline R33 GT-R, Dirk Schoymans (Autocar magazine 1997)

 

[Snakester]

Re: What is the GTS and SRT/10 times at

The "Ring" is an absolutely terrible judge of performance cars, UNLESS they are run at the track hundreds (or in the case of Porsche 911s thousands) of times.

There is zero accounting of weather, road, traffic conditions, or driver skill or experience with the car.

Would you really think that the Mercedes SL55 is a faster car around a racetrack than a Viper!

8:06 --- 152.592 km/h -- Mercedes Benz SL55 AMG
8:10 --- 151.114 km/h -- Chrysler Viper GTS, 411 hp/1567 kg (sport auto 10/1997)
8:13 --- 150.426 km/h -- Dodge Viper SRT-10, 506 hp (sport auto, 10/2004)


Or that the GTS Viper (that was gutted with only 411HP in Europe) could not easily be beaten with an extra 90HP, less weight, and substantially better brakes of the new 500HP SRT-10 Viper?

I believe that the particular SRT-10 Ring test was with someone else who couldn't drive the Viper well, was unfamiliar with the car, complained about being able to control the car, and it was also done on a wet track from what I remember.

Show me a test with the same drivers, same track, same weather and track conditions on the same day and I'll look at the numbers.

But for the Viper, the Ring numbers are an insult, and not anything like an accurate reflection of relative performance

The C6 Corvette, and C6 Z06 have been actively campaigned at the Ring, just as the CTS-V has been. With the suspension and tires being specifically tuned to run well at the track.

GM has understood that Europeans set the Ring numbers up as their holy grail, and unfortunately DC dropped the ball with that. One of the reasons of a poor reception of the SRT-10 Viper in Europe (besides having to pay double the price) is that there has only been a minimal effort to give the Viper positive visibility to really show of the car's performance capability.

And DC getting some expert drivers and a chassis tuning team out at the Ring would be a huge step in the right direction, rather than having someone unfamiliar with the car run it on a wet track and have the poor resulting numbers curse the reputation of the Viper in Europe.

 

[DEVILDOG]

Re: What is the GTS and SRT/10 times at

It really is quite simple. The DC germans don't want the Viper showing up their Mercs on their "Ring".

 

[Heysie]

Re: What is the GTS and SRT/10 times at

Here in Europe, the people think a Viper is just for straight lines....

 

[DEVILDOG]

Re: What is the GTS and SRT/10 times at

Here in Europe, the people think a Viper is just for straight lines....

Guess they forgot about the Viper GTS-R winning the FIA GTS Championship more than once and beating everything the Europeans could throw at it. Not to mention the German 24 hour race for 3 years in a row until they penalized it last year so it could not win. And let's not forget the multiple wins at Le Mans. Got any curves at any of those races listed above? Better go back on video and watch your own Eourpean races.

 

[Vic]

Re: What is the GTS and SRT/10 times at

Devil Dog, your last comment "go back and watch your own European races" seems to suggest that you think Heysie agrees with the opinion of many Europeans.

If so, you don't understand his meaning. He was merely commenting on their biased opinions, not that he thinks that. Heysie is a Viper fan, who has enough vision, and is open minded enough to recognize the true capabilites of the Viper. Thats probably why he owns an RT/10, eh?

 

[TCKTPLZ]

Re: What is the GTS and SRT/10 times at

How bout those M3's.

The '02 Final Edition GTS has the best time ever at the Ring. I believe it came in at 3:49. If you disagree, then you are a liar.

 

[Russ M]

Re: What is the GTS and SRT/10 times at

Ring time is next to pointless.

All the fast times posted were because of days, maybe weeks of factory backed testing by drivers who make a living on the ring. Dodge never did any such testing, the only times we have are privateers with limited track time.

Take it to a fair track where both cars and drivers can be at their best and the viper will absolutly humiliate a c5 z06. Just look at lap times at say willow springs in stock vs stock.

Besides that the c6 z06 will not run a 7:40, if you look it says wishfull thinking on that time. Lets not forget that the tires on the c6 z06 are crap compared to the c5 z06, I would not be surprised if lap times favored the c5 z06.

 

[Heysie]

Re: What is the GTS and SRT/10 times at

Here in Europe, the people think a Viper is just for straight lines....

Guess they forgot about the Viper GTS-R winning the FIA GTS Championship more than once and beating everything the Europeans could throw at it. Not to mention the German 24 hour race for 3 years in a row until they penalized it last year so it could not win. And let's not forget the multiple wins at Le Mans. Got any curves at any of those races listed above? Better go back on video and watch your own Eourpean races.

Well, Vic did understand...


Fia GT championship and Le Mans GT2-class does not have a big impact on most people here. Did you follow those championships before the Viper was taken part of it? I didn't and now days I don't.
I know the Viper is good in turns, but it does need a descent driver to go fast.

 

[Yves]

Re: What is the GTS and SRT/10 times at

Here in Europe, the people think a Viper is just for straight lines....

Guess they forgot about the Viper GTS-R winning the FIA GTS Championship more than once and beating everything the Europeans could throw at it. Not to mention the German 24 hour race for 3 years in a row until they penalized it last year so it could not win. And let's not forget the multiple wins at Le Mans. Got any curves at any of those races listed above? Better go back on video and watch your own Eourpean races.

Vergeef de armen van geest...

Go Texas, go ! Yeeehaaaah

The above statements about factory support are true.
It's going to be a cold day in hell when somebody beats the Germans on the ring.
Net, it is not a good benchmark.

 

[onerareviper]

Re: What is the GTS and SRT/10 times at

So many people 'bench race' on the net with these times. It is totally useless and ridiculous - for the reasons stated above. Bottom line: A nice 2.5 mile road course in the good USA will show the true performance potential of any car. Mid-Ohio comes to mind. I can't speak for the C6 Z06, but the C5 Z06 was/is not as fast as the Gen II Viper on this track. A second or so off pace with a good driver. The Gen III even widened that gap. Now going by the 'ring times, the Viper should getting passed by a BMW 3 series - LOL!

Any-who, I expect the C6 Z06 to be a great track car as the C5 Z06 is/was.... But I would not expect much difference in lap times between this car and the Gen III Coupe. Looking forward to getting some 'real' numbers that make sense and provide a true reflection of performance.

 

[Neil - UK]

Re: What is the GTS and SRT/10 times at

we were at the ring a few weeks ago I was sitting as a passenger in a fairly standard GTS with a guy who has been 8 times before to this track, it seemed we were absolutely flying and it felt we couldnt go much quicker, safely. We were overtaking lots of sporty cars, the owner reckoned he was driving around 90% of his limit, when a BMW estate/tourer passed us it was a diseil to ! we followed it for a while before it gradually pulled away from us around the corners.... obviously a local who knows the track very well, or a BMW test driver it was absolutely unbeleivable, impressive stuff you had to be there to comprehend it.

On the other hand Joel in his celica, was flying past some 911's and sports bikes like they were standing still

Track knowledge is very important at the Ring they reckon there is 160 bends/kinks, you take a corner wrong and it throws the next few out as well. Like the others mentioned track experience, etc would have a lot to do with all the varied times