Best suspension upgrade for tracking

[black mamba1]

What is the best suspension upgrade for road racing? I researched older threads on Motons, but it seems as if all they is make the car lower and ride smoother. I got smoother riding from adding PS2's. I dont see an advantage of lowering the Viper. I also see guys going to lighter weight wheels...but this can throw the stock suspension out of tune due to unsprung weight design criteria, but I do understand the thinking behind that. Are there really any suspension upgrades out there that results in better performance, better cornering and lower track times?

 

[JonB]

What is the best suspension upgrade for road racing? I researched older threads on Motons, but it seems as if all they is make the car lower and ride smoother. I got smoother riding from adding PS2's. I dont see an advantage of lowering the Viper. I also see guys going to lighter weight wheels...but this can throw the stock suspension out of tune due to unsprung weight design criteria, but I do understand the thinking behind that. Are there really any suspension upgrades out there that results in better performance, better cornering and lower track times?

Lighter weight wheels are like Nike-Airs on YOUR FEET vs combat boots.
The brakes become more effiecient, due to less rotating mass.
The dampers become more efficient due to less jouncing unsprung mass.
The springs get more efficient due to the same thing
The STEERING assembly goes more nimble and efficient due to less weight and rotating mass.
Lowering the C.G. improves the turning responsiveness (rotational moment).
Lowering the car minimises the aero-wedge that is trying to force its way inder the car.
This minimises drag, minimizes lift (some would say creates downforce, but less accurate.)

A simple performance alignment to get the flat-footed OE specs upgraded is best bang 4 buck.

Fully dressed and asembled KWs are under $3100. Motons about $1000 more.
DONT BE CONFUSED BY "PRIVATE LABEL" KWs that use a small damper and add parts!

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Taking tires out of the equation and considering the SRT brakes are top notch already, I'd say the best suspension upgrade would be corner weighting - which would require height adjustable shocks.

 

[jpas]

Taking tires out of the equation and considering the SRT brakes are top notch already, I'd say the best suspension upgrade would be corner weighting - which would require height adjustable shocks.

Don't be fooled by the so called savings of the KW's, they are crap compared to the Motons and Penske's. If intend on tracking your car, steer clear of the KW's.

Get the Motons or Penske's - both can be had for approx $3600.

 

[black mamba1]

Thanks for your responses. I am still unclear as to what exactly the KW's and the Motons really do. They allow for adjustable height settings for the Viper? And as JonB said, this is good due to a lower cg for the car which I get. Now, if the KW and the Motons basically are adjustable shocks, what is the difference in the two?

 

[black mamba1]

Lighter weight wheels are like Nike-Airs on YOUR FEET vs combat boots.
The brakes become more effiecient, due to less rotating mass.
The dampers become more efficient due to less jouncing unsprung mass.
The springs get more efficient due to the same thing
The STEERING assembly goes more nimble and efficient due to less weight and rotating mass.
Lowering the C.G. improves the turning responsiveness (rotational moment).
Lowering the car minimises the aero-wedge that is trying to force its way inder the car.
This minimises drag, minimizes lift (some would say creates downforce, but less accurate.)

A simple performance alignment to get the flat-footed OE specs upgraded is best bang 4 buck.

Fully dressed and asembled KWs are under $3100. Motons about $1000 more.
DONT BE CONFUSED BY "PRIVATE LABEL" KWs that use a small damper and add parts!

Thanks JonB, as always you are very helpful! And thanks for getting those PS2's to me earlier this year!

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Thanks for your responses. I am still unclear as to what exactly the KW's and the Motons really do. They allow for adjustable height settings for the Viper? And as JonB said, this is good due to a lower cg for the car which I get. Now, if the KW and the Motons basically are adjustable shocks, what is the difference in the two?

KW, Moton, Penske, Koni, etc. they all make shocks with various adjustability. IMO a perfomance shock has a minimum of three adjustments - compression, rebound and height. The advantage to height adjustability is to get the desired weight on all four wheels with driver in position. They also allow the car to be lowered which is also an advantage.

Most consider Penske and Moton to be of higher quality than KW.

 

[black mamba1]

KW, Moton, Penske, Koni, etc. they all make shocks with various adjustability. IMO a perfomance shock has a minimum of three adjustments - compression, rebound and height. The advantage to height adjustability is to get the desired weight on all four wheels with driver in position. They also allow the car to be lowered which is also an advantage.

Most consider Penske and Moton to be of higher quality than KW.

The desired weight to all four wheels? How is this affected by ride height?

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

The desired weight to all four wheels? How is this affected by ride height?

Basic physics. Being able to change the ride height at each corner changes the weight distribution for each corner.

 

[black mamba1]

Basic physics. Being able to change the ride height at each corner changes the weight distribution for each corner.[/quote
Lowering would reduce the weight to all four wheels under dynamic load, correct?

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Lowering would reduce the weight to all four wheels under dynamic load, correct?

Start simple. Imagine you only have a left and right wheel. You sit in the driver's seat.

Which wheel will have more weight on it? A. The left (driver's side).
Which side will you raise or lower to even the weight? A. Eventually if you raise the left high enough more weight will be shifted to the right.

However, add two more wheels and it gets much, much more complicated, you kinda have to think the opposite of your initial thought.

That is "scaling the car."

"Corner weighting" or "scaling" (whatever you wanna call it) IMO is the biggest advantage to height adjustable shocks. Setting the overall ride height is also a benefit but not as much as weight balance to four corners. IMO.

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

The biggest reason the Motons will ride better and make the car handle better is the efficency of the shock itself. If you can lower the "stiction" of the shock (energy to overcome seals etc...) the shock is better at controlling the car and unsprung weight.

The height adjustibility helps as noted with lowering the weight transfered and controlling where the weight is located staticly. This will make the car more predictable because it will handle the same turning either way. You will also be able to control front and rear roll axis better by changing the rake front to rear and using the sway bars more effectivly.

My vote is of course for the Motons.

[email protected]

 

[Catwood]

What is a good starting point for setting ride height and where do you measure?

thanks,
Carl

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

For the best handling and streetability we lower the rear 7/8" and the front 3/4". You could go more but the fascia and inner fender liners will suffer.

We measure across the frame rails at the centerline of the front and rear wheels as a starting point. This will cahnge a bit when corner weighting but needs to be consistant with the 1/2" rake.

 

[ViperRay]

They haven't said much about the compression and rebound settings of the shocks so far. They can affect how your car transitions into and out of turns by affecting the rate of weight transfer. They have no effect when your car is in a steady state though, spring rates control this. All of these factors, including sway bars tell the car how much weight to transfer (side to side and front to back) and at what rate to transfer it.

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

I really was not over looking this just waiting for the question. We have chosen the rates that best match the valving in the clubsport shocks. The range of adjustment is so that you can use the full range up or down without over powering the shocks.

If the spring is too stiff it will over power the shock and become bouncy and unstable, not what you want. Also most common drivers are not "fast enough" to react to a stiff chassis set up and can be in over their heads very quickly. We have combined the best of both worlds for the average drivers and if you think you need a stiffer set up we can do that also. I would suggest the Motorsports Motons for that though and not recommend them for the street.

In our set up with our alignment we se 3 clicks of rebound front and rear and 3 clicks of bump in the front with 4 clicks in the rear. This is very easy to drive and is forgiving to the occasional ham ****** manuver.

The rebound can be dialed up a bit at the track but should be done the same front and rear with our setup.

Thanks and have fun!

 

[ViperRay]

Nobody knows how to set up a viper for the track better than Mark Jorgensen, Rick Maxwell and the folks over at Woodhouse... but that should be obvious.

 

[Viper X]

Hey Carl,

These are the same numbers Archer Racing gave me when I asked that question about my GTS and that's about what it is set at now.

Dan