1&3/4" vs 1&5/8" which is better?

[wastntim]

1&3/4\" vs 1&5/8\" which is better?

This is a question I am sure my wife could easily post an answer to but I am sure I wouldn't like it. But the question remains, why does it seem like more of the headers are 1&3/4 vs. 1&5/8? Isn't bigger usually better?

 

[plumcrazy]

Re: 1&3/4\" vs 1&5/8\" which is better?

i think its gonna depend on what ya wanna do with the car. keep it N/A or supercharger in the future

 

[kcobean]

Re: 1&3/4\" vs 1&5/8\" which is better?

This is a question I am sure my wife could easily post an answer to but I am sure I wouldn't like it. But the question remains, why does it seem like more of the headers are 1&3/4 vs. 1&5/8? Isn't bigger usually better?

Uh...unless they changed math while I wasn't looking, 1-3/4 is the same as 1-6/8, which is bigger than 1-5/8.

 

[Flash Gordon]

Re: 1&3/4\" vs 1&5/8\" which is better?

This is a question I am sure my wife could easily post an answer to but I am sure I wouldn't like it. But the question remains, why does it seem like more of the headers are 1&3/4 vs. 1&5/8? Isn't bigger usually better?

Uh...unless they changed math while I wasn't looking, 1-3/4 is the same as 1-6/8, which is bigger than 1-5/8.

Thanks for clarifying, I was a little lost myself.
I think you'll find that most guys who plan to boost in the future go with the larger 1 3/4.

 

[plumcrazy]

Re: 1&3/4\" vs 1&5/8\" which is better?

exactly !!!

 

[ViperTony]

Re: 1&3/4\" vs 1&5/8\" which is better?

This is a question I am sure my wife could easily post an answer to but I am sure I wouldn't like it. But the question remains, why does it seem like more of the headers are 1&3/4 vs. 1&5/8? Isn't bigger usually better?

I'm 'experimenting' with this question now on my N.A RT/10. Consensus seems to indicate that larger headers are better suited for forced induction applications. I happened to come across a slightly used set of Borla 1 5/8" headers and a B&B 3" catback with B&B cats. I wasn't in the market for headers but the price was right so I installed the system. I believe that while the larger headers may not contribute significant performance gains on a N.A. that it will aid in a better sounding exhaust, IMO.

Performance is noticeably better. I have dyno results in another post. The headers did increase mid-range torque as advertised. But for me, I wasn't in market for performance as much as sound improvement and side-sill heat reduction. I'm not entirely happy with the exhaust sound and I'm quite certain the headers are contributing to the "tinny" and "metallic" exhaust note.

Try to imagine playing a trumpet. You blow air through a skinny mouth piece and into a larger diameter pipe. If you listen a trumpet, you tend to hear higher pitched notes and while the low 'C' sounds good it's not as low as say a baritone horn which is larger mouth piece, larger pipes. I guess you can say my exhaust sounds like someone is farting into it and it being amplified really loud out the back! I know, I know sound is unique and different to everyone. I'm looking for a more aggressive, deeper rumble from my exhaust and I know that the B&B gets me 1/2 way there.

I quite certain the headers are ruining the exhaust note for me. I can actually hear the metallic resonance of the smaller headers being amplified through the exhaust. I'm actually going to swap these headers our for larger 1 3/4" Belangers. I'm hoping that the aluminized steel and larger diameter pipe will help produce that lower rumble I'm looking for. I'm hoping performance stays the same if not slightly better.

To me, the Borla headers sounded good (not great) with the stock exhaust and the stock headers sounded good with the B&B exhaust. I will post sound clips of each setup in a week or two. When I started this process, I had no idea how much technology went into these exhaust systems... Tri-Y vs. 5-1, vs. Long-Tube, vs. Stepped... Stainless Steel vs. Aluminized, Pickle: Dill vs. Kosher. I'm having a blast learning about this, in fact, I've become obsessed with it. Take advantage of this forum as there are many great posts on this topic, especially as of late.

- Tony

 

[wastntim]

Re: 1&3/4\" vs 1&5/8\" which is better?

[quote
Uh...unless they changed math while I wasn't looking, 1-3/4 is the same as 1-6/8, which is bigger than 1-5/8.

[/QUOTE]

Thanks for clarifying, I was a little lost myself.
I think you'll find that most guys who plan to boost in the future go with the larger 1 3/4.

[/QUOTE]

So I am a bit cixelsyd!

 

[kcobean]

Re: 1&3/4\" vs 1&5/8\" which is better?

[quote
Uh...unless they changed math while I wasn't looking, 1-3/4 is the same as 1-6/8, which is bigger than 1-5/8.

Thanks for clarifying, I was a little lost myself.
I think you'll find that most guys who plan to boost in the future go with the larger 1 3/4.

[/QUOTE]

So I am a bit cixelsyd!

[/QUOTE]

Is your mother a member of D.A.M? (Mothers Against Dyslexia).

 

[wastntim]

Re: 1&3/4\" vs 1&5/8\" which is better?

[quote Is your mother a member of D.A.M? (Mothers Against Dyslexia).

[/QUOTE]

Well she did say I was to be d@mned to Hell.

 

[kcobean]

Re: 1&3/4\" vs 1&5/8\" which is better?

[quote Is your mother a member of D.A.M? (Mothers Against Dyslexia).

Well she did say I was to be d@mned to Hell.

[/QUOTE]

 

[JonB]

Re: 1&3/4\" vs 1&5/8\" which is better?

This is a question I am sure my wife could easily post an answer to but I am sure I wouldn't like it. But the question remains, why does it seem like more of the headers are 1&3/4 vs. 1&5/8? Isn't bigger usually better?

THE YEAR MATTERS. THOSE WHO POST QUESTIONS WITHOUT CAR DATA ARE ASKING FOR ALL-OVER-THE-MAP ANSWERS, and 66% WILL BE W-R-O-N-G.

Generally, with 1 5/8 headers, yu are, er, um WASTNTIM and WASTNMUNNY (unless you get a steal on a stolen set on ebay-of-thieves or Craigs-Fence

 

[Go Fast For Life]

Re: 1&3/4\" vs 1&5/8\" which is better?

One of the best solutions is a 1 5/8 header stepped to 1 3/4 - but probably the single most overlooked factor is how well the header flange matches the exhaust port of the head. The most efficient header design is going to keep the flow velocity of the exhaust gasses high. Usually the head port is smaller than the header flange/tube. In this case, as soon as the exhaust leaves the exhaust port (and enters the header), the flow velocity is reduced resulting in less scavaging of the cylinder. This is easily demonstrated by adding even larger headers and loosing performance. The stock exhaust port on a gen1 and gen2 head is 1.5 inches. I don't know if it has been changed on gen3s.

For most stock Vipers, a 1 1/2 or 1 5/8 inch header is usually better. 1 3/4 is too large unless you have made significant modifications to your motor.

My car engine is a 542 and I am currently contemplating replacing my current headers and adding a 1 3/4 stepped to 1 7/8 header with a burns collector. If I do, I'll be sure to post a dyno sheet showing before and after plots.

Hope this helps.

 

[FE 065]

Re: 1&3/4\" vs 1&5/8\" which is better?

Just remember it's essentially a 390ci engine with 2 extra cylinders. 488ci is a lot of cubic inches, true-but getting that dispalcement and horsepower thru 10 cylinders not 8.

So each cylinder is not as powerful as one would think associating 450hp with an 8 cylinder. Stock a G2 = a 360hp 390ci V8.

Most back to back comparos have not shown stepped headers to add any HP. As this partial reprint from Headers by Ed relates:

The best way of illustrating the capability of stepped header designs is to relate a conversation that occurred awhile back with a local fellow that owns a shop that does dyno-testing. He called our shop one day and wanted to know "why do guys think that stepped headers are so good, when we've tested, maybe, twenty engines so far where the stepped headers did NOT prove to produce one horsepower gain over other headers used in the test". He went on to discuss his amazement as to how convinced these guys were as to the stepped headers being better yet, in test after test, on twenty-plus engines - all tested in a row - the headers did not increase power. Over twenty tests in a row - no gain! (Keep in mind that has to mean that some of the stepped headers had to cause a performance loss.) If you believe in statistical evidence, his testing PROVED that stepped headers don't work

I'd be more concerned about getting headers that have the primaries entering the collector in firing order sequence rather than obsessing over the latest gimmick.

A 4 into 1 header using a “Merge Collector” (having the pyramid in the center) and rotational firing order can generate as much as 12 lb of vacuum inside.." (inside the cylinder)


For all that science and effort, remember too that by just adding a forward mounted balance pipe to 2 Vipers that didn't have aftermarket headers, I've gained over 20hp - both times!

 

[Matt]

Re: 1&3/4\" vs 1&5/8\" which is better?

For all that science and effort, remember too that by just adding a forward mounted balance pipe to 2 Vipers that didn't have aftermarket headers, I've gained over 20hp - both times!

Any pictures of this balance pipe?