Yes I did quite alot of searching on this topic, still have not comeup with consitent enough info. I am just starting to modifiy my 98 gts purchased the VEC 1 s&B filters and smooth tubes, I am planning on headers and high flow cats with a cat back system probably B&B system with Roes converters if I could get some dyno numbers on that setup. But first I was going to add a set of 1.7 rockers the first problem is the T&D's are almost twice the prices of crower yes I know they are shaft mount but for years I ran cars without shaft mount and they were fine. Is there a real gain of 30 hp or just a myth? If it is only 10 hp then makes no sense to spend the money. But if you were able to obtian and additional 30 after the exhaust mods which should be another 30 it would not be a bad deal does anyone have the answer. Sorry for the novel.
1.7 rockers?
- Thread starter GONABITE
- Start date
Bad_Byte
Enthusiast
I would talk with Tom Welch of BTR first. I recently replace my old comp cam rollers (which had major problems) with a set of Arrow 1.7 rollers. They are less than half the cost of the T&D and I got them almost over night. Would have waited almost 2 weeks for T&D to manufacture them. The only BTW was that I needed new push rods.
MES
Enthusiast
I have no experience with 1.7 rockers (yet) but they add very little HP. I don't know where you got the 30 HP but it's BS. Most seem to get 5-10 rwhp from them.
Tom Welch
Enthusiast
Hello,
I highly recommend the Arrow Rocker Arms. They are produced by the company who rebuilds and warranties your Viper Engine. They stand behind their product 100% and their price is right.
What else could you ask for??
Tom
Http://btrviper.com
I highly recommend the Arrow Rocker Arms. They are produced by the company who rebuilds and warranties your Viper Engine. They stand behind their product 100% and their price is right.
What else could you ask for??
Tom
Http://btrviper.com
Bad_Byte
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 1bad gts:
As far as i know EVERY Major Viper Tuner out there will not use ANYTHING other than T&D.What is the reason for this?.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hmmm... I wonder which is greater 3% of $1200 or 3% of $500?
Markup is a wonderful thing.
Not putting down the T&D's but if your not into serious racing why would you need such overkill. In T&D's own words, "we build for race cars, off shore boats etc. " (may not be exact quote but very close)
I love to drive fast and will eventually track my car but only for sport and knowledge. I think the Arrow's are great based cost, quality and dependability. Arrow stands behind them. Does T&D stand behind theirs?
Maybe some tuners could chime in here.
As far as i know EVERY Major Viper Tuner out there will not use ANYTHING other than T&D.What is the reason for this?.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hmmm... I wonder which is greater 3% of $1200 or 3% of $500?
Markup is a wonderful thing.
Not putting down the T&D's but if your not into serious racing why would you need such overkill. In T&D's own words, "we build for race cars, off shore boats etc. " (may not be exact quote but very close)
I love to drive fast and will eventually track my car but only for sport and knowledge. I think the Arrow's are great based cost, quality and dependability. Arrow stands behind them. Does T&D stand behind theirs?
Maybe some tuners could chime in here.
MES
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I just installed the Arrow 1.7 roller rockers... I also installed a pair of polished throttle bodies... picked up an additional 38hwp and 45lbtqe<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
So a set of rockers & TB are worth 38 rwhp
Someone needs to look into this. I know of no others that have done TB and picked up any HP so what's the secret here
please share
Oh and I stand by my first post. The guys original post was just inquiring about headers & exhaust, so with just that 10rwhp is a very realistic expectation for rockers.
So a set of rockers & TB are worth 38 rwhp
Oh and I stand by my first post. The guys original post was just inquiring about headers & exhaust, so with just that 10rwhp is a very realistic expectation for rockers.
Joseph Dell
Enthusiast
I don't how much, specifically, the T&D's added to my combo. I do know that with a blown motor, I wanted heavy duty rockers. The T&Ds, when you look at them, are heavy duty. For a car running 9-10lb of boost, I wasn't taking any chances.
I had _no_ idea that the combination would yeild a 700rwhp car.
I wish I had the energy to take off the T&D's, replace them with stock, and then dyno the car again... If anyone in Atlanta wants to volunteer to do the labor with me over a weekend, we might be able to do a test.
Regardless, I think of them as cheap insurance. Whether they added anything or not, I feel much better about running the car at high RPMs.
JD
I had _no_ idea that the combination would yeild a 700rwhp car.
I wish I had the energy to take off the T&D's, replace them with stock, and then dyno the car again... If anyone in Atlanta wants to volunteer to do the labor with me over a weekend, we might be able to do a test.
Regardless, I think of them as cheap insurance. Whether they added anything or not, I feel much better about running the car at high RPMs.
JD
SNKBYT
Enthusiast
To: 1Bad gts: Thanks for adding the info on the 1.7 rocker mod. You are absolutely correct. The more airflow thru the motor, the better the 1.7 rockers will perform. 1.7 rockers should only be done after complete exhaust has been done to realize the full potential of the added valve lift from the 1.7 rockers.Thus yielding the most hp/$ from the rockers. To Mes, if someone adds 1.7 rockers without doing the exhaust mods first, they probably will only see a 5-10hp increase. This is not a good mod $wise without doing complete exhaust first. My 97gts has Edelbrock headers,Sean Roe 3" hiflo cats,Borla exhaust, modified K@N airbox with BTR intake pipes and filters, modified computer. My dyno last fall was 441rwhp,480tq. I dynoed it again this sat after installing polished throttle bodies, and Arrow 1.7 roller rockers. Results 479rwhp,525rwtq. I gained 38rwhp and 45lbtq. No other mods were done. I suspect the 1.7 rockers contributed to at least 20 hp. Tim, PS. This can be verified by the NE viper club. Tim
King GTS
Enthusiast
I'd say 15 hp 20 tops w/ the T&D's. I'd definitely buy them though - they're worth it.
VEETENN
Enthusiast
Just in case it matters, installing aftermarket rockers will void your warranty.
SNKBYT
Enthusiast
The warranty issue depends on your dealer. Some dealers will not viod the warranty with rockers, especially if they are dealer installed. You may want to check with your dealer first!
SNKBYT
Enthusiast
I just installed the Arrow 1.7 roller rockers on Friday nite. Easy to install start to finish including an oil change, -5hrs. This was being very cautious and very thorough. I then dynoed the car on sat. I also installed a pair of polished throttle bodies ( thanks to David Wilks). The car picked up an additional 38hwp and 45lbtqe. Car has Edelbrock headers, Sean Roe 3" hi-flo cats and Borla exhaust. Modified K@N air box with BTR induction pipes and filters. Reprogrammed computer. The the results were 479rwhp,525tq. The car is a 97gts. I would have to beleive that the 1.7 rockers were good for at least 20hp with the other mods. To Mes: I think you are off base with your opinion. I am stating actual facts and results, not opinionated BS. It would be nice if people only stated actual facts instead of hype. This would save a lot of people alot of money on parts that don't do a thing to add performance.
Marc Lublin
Enthusiast
Trey,
What actually happened with the Arrow rockers? I have T&D's but I'm still interested. Do you have any pictures of the failure? It would be good for all to see if there really is a big difference between the two. The Arrow's are relatively new and yours is the first I've heard of breaking.
What actually happened with the Arrow rockers? I have T&D's but I'm still interested. Do you have any pictures of the failure? It would be good for all to see if there really is a big difference between the two. The Arrow's are relatively new and yours is the first I've heard of breaking.
1TONY1
Enthusiast
Curious...How is the rocker causing valves to drop? I've broken rockers, broken rocker stands, had rockers come off, had rocker studs break, All on alot more powerful and faster stuff than a Viper and none of the above has ever caused a valve to drop. I have had retainer and keepers cause valves to drop but nothing to do with the rocker.
King GTS
Enthusiast
Marc,
I didn't have the heart to even go up to the dealership with my Viper. I stress about anything relating to that car. I just waited for my Viper Tech to call me & give me his diagnosis. I myself, didn't even know what was wrong. As I was broken down, I called my Viper President, Prashant, and put my cell to the engine and him & everybody that was with him were all freakin out! Yelling, "Stop, Stop, you're killin us over here. We can't take hearin your car like that!!" It really sounded like a dumbell was stuck in the engine. They all immediately said it was the Rockers - just from listening. <u>My Viper Tech called and confirmed their suspicions.</u> I didn't take any pics and I didn't even want to see it till the T&D's were on it. NEVER EVER BUY ARROWS! I wouldn't wish them on an enemy!! Take it from me! I had no idea when I bought them! If ANYONE reads this Post, please learn from my mistake! You'll be sorry if you don't!
I didn't have the heart to even go up to the dealership with my Viper. I stress about anything relating to that car. I just waited for my Viper Tech to call me & give me his diagnosis. I myself, didn't even know what was wrong. As I was broken down, I called my Viper President, Prashant, and put my cell to the engine and him & everybody that was with him were all freakin out! Yelling, "Stop, Stop, you're killin us over here. We can't take hearin your car like that!!" It really sounded like a dumbell was stuck in the engine. They all immediately said it was the Rockers - just from listening. <u>My Viper Tech called and confirmed their suspicions.</u> I didn't take any pics and I didn't even want to see it till the T&D's were on it. NEVER EVER BUY ARROWS! I wouldn't wish them on an enemy!! Take it from me! I had no idea when I bought them! If ANYONE reads this Post, please learn from my mistake! You'll be sorry if you don't!
Bad_Byte
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Marc Lublin:
Trey,
What actually happened with the Arrow rockers? I have T&D's but I'm still interested. Do you have any pictures of the failure? It would be good for all to see if there really is a big difference between the two. The Arrow's are relatively new and yours is the first I've heard of breaking.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Absolutely, it would be good for us all. I'd switch in half a heartbeat if I thought for a second there was even the slightest chance of an Arrow rocker breaking. I'd also have Mr Tom Welch explain why he didn't know of this and why he so highly recommended them to me. I look to this board for experience, knowledge and expertise. I'm not an authority by any streach therefor I look to those who are. I am quickly learning that the authorities are many, varied in opinion, and in some cases out to make a buck. I certainly don't blame a business man for making a buck, its his responsibility, but not at the expense of reputation or clients.
Marc:
By the way, the box the Arrow rockers were shipped to me in had your name on them. You didn't happen to return a set to Tom did you? Just curious......
My trip into the Viper internals continues.....
Trey,
What actually happened with the Arrow rockers? I have T&D's but I'm still interested. Do you have any pictures of the failure? It would be good for all to see if there really is a big difference between the two. The Arrow's are relatively new and yours is the first I've heard of breaking.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Absolutely, it would be good for us all. I'd switch in half a heartbeat if I thought for a second there was even the slightest chance of an Arrow rocker breaking. I'd also have Mr Tom Welch explain why he didn't know of this and why he so highly recommended them to me. I look to this board for experience, knowledge and expertise. I'm not an authority by any streach therefor I look to those who are. I am quickly learning that the authorities are many, varied in opinion, and in some cases out to make a buck. I certainly don't blame a business man for making a buck, its his responsibility, but not at the expense of reputation or clients.
Marc:
By the way, the box the Arrow rockers were shipped to me in had your name on them. You didn't happen to return a set to Tom did you? Just curious......
My trip into the Viper internals continues.....
Bad_Byte
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by King GTS:
Marc,
I didn't have the heart to even go up to the dealership with my Viper. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I for one would like to know "exactly" what went wrong. Many things can go wrong mechanically and they are not always what we suspect. I'm not saying a rocker didn't break just that I am very analytically inclined and suspect everything until I have physical proof or first hand knowledge.
Some things such as:
A lifter collapsing causing a pushrod to slip and misaling
A push rod bending and consequently causing problems with the lifter
A rocker not being torqued properly and backing itself out
the list goes on but this gives some idea of what could cause someone to say a rocker was bad and/or you dropped a valve due to a bad rocker.
Again I am not defending my position on the Arrows because I want what's best and to reveal defective products as much as the next guy but I would sure be interested in any physical proof it was the rocker.
Marc,
I didn't have the heart to even go up to the dealership with my Viper. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I for one would like to know "exactly" what went wrong. Many things can go wrong mechanically and they are not always what we suspect. I'm not saying a rocker didn't break just that I am very analytically inclined and suspect everything until I have physical proof or first hand knowledge.
Some things such as:
A lifter collapsing causing a pushrod to slip and misaling
A push rod bending and consequently causing problems with the lifter
A rocker not being torqued properly and backing itself out
the list goes on but this gives some idea of what could cause someone to say a rocker was bad and/or you dropped a valve due to a bad rocker.
Again I am not defending my position on the Arrows because I want what's best and to reveal defective products as much as the next guy but I would sure be interested in any physical proof it was the rocker.
King GTS
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bad_Byte:
I for one would like to know "exactly" what went wrong. Many things can go wrong mechanically and they are not always what we suspect. I'm not saying a rocker didn't break just that I am very analytically inclined and suspect everything until I have physical proof or first hand knowledge.
Some things such as:
A lifter collapsing causing a pushrod to slip and misaling
A push rod bending and consequently causing problems with the lifter
A rocker not being torqued properly and backing itself out
the list goes on but this gives some idea of what could cause someone to say a rocker was bad and/or you dropped a valve due to a bad rocker.
Again I am not defending my position on the Arrows because I want what's best and to reveal defective products as much as the next guy but I would sure be interested in any physical proof it was the rocker.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sorry I don't have any proof for you. Other than my word, and the word of a skilled Dodge Viper Technician. He told me 100% it was the Rockers and NOTHING else. NOTHING else. Trust me, I asked.
Oh well, I hope you NEVER have a problem with an Arrow Rocker but reality is that you WILL. I was just trying to help & share something that really just happened to me. When I saw the Topic I had a chill shoot through me. If you'd prefer Arrows, by all means, buy them. I was just sharing a serious tragedy I personally went through because of them, along with the information that I've received not only from my Viper Tech but everyone in my area that knew about what happened.
I'm just glad I wasn't racing around (like I usually am) and I had the good sense to pull over or it could've been worse.
I for one would like to know "exactly" what went wrong. Many things can go wrong mechanically and they are not always what we suspect. I'm not saying a rocker didn't break just that I am very analytically inclined and suspect everything until I have physical proof or first hand knowledge.
Some things such as:
A lifter collapsing causing a pushrod to slip and misaling
A push rod bending and consequently causing problems with the lifter
A rocker not being torqued properly and backing itself out
the list goes on but this gives some idea of what could cause someone to say a rocker was bad and/or you dropped a valve due to a bad rocker.
Again I am not defending my position on the Arrows because I want what's best and to reveal defective products as much as the next guy but I would sure be interested in any physical proof it was the rocker.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sorry I don't have any proof for you. Other than my word, and the word of a skilled Dodge Viper Technician. He told me 100% it was the Rockers and NOTHING else. NOTHING else. Trust me, I asked.
Oh well, I hope you NEVER have a problem with an Arrow Rocker but reality is that you WILL. I was just trying to help & share something that really just happened to me. When I saw the Topic I had a chill shoot through me. If you'd prefer Arrows, by all means, buy them. I was just sharing a serious tragedy I personally went through because of them, along with the information that I've received not only from my Viper Tech but everyone in my area that knew about what happened.
I'm just glad I wasn't racing around (like I usually am) and I had the good sense to pull over or it could've been worse.
Bad_Byte
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 1bad gts:
My car for instance is often used by McMullus Argus Publications (Muscle Mustang Fast Ford Mag ,Mopar Performance ILL ect )as a test car.To me it does not make sense to take such a chance for the amount of money involved.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
1bad - I'd like to see pics of the T&D's. I'd like to know where the differences are and why they are so superior. Inquiring minds want to know. As I said I don't have anything against them but seems to me that if Arrow stands behind theirs that T&D should as well. I certainly want the best I can afford and the best available for my little snake but sometimes.....
If I can discern a difference I'd probably switch even after having spent the money and time changing from my old comp cam rockers. So far I haven't seen the difference. I would certainly appreciate any help in this area.
One thing for sure, after what I just went through I will be checking my rockers more frequently.
My car for instance is often used by McMullus Argus Publications (Muscle Mustang Fast Ford Mag ,Mopar Performance ILL ect )as a test car.To me it does not make sense to take such a chance for the amount of money involved.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
1bad - I'd like to see pics of the T&D's. I'd like to know where the differences are and why they are so superior. Inquiring minds want to know. As I said I don't have anything against them but seems to me that if Arrow stands behind theirs that T&D should as well. I certainly want the best I can afford and the best available for my little snake but sometimes.....
If I can discern a difference I'd probably switch even after having spent the money and time changing from my old comp cam rockers. So far I haven't seen the difference. I would certainly appreciate any help in this area.
One thing for sure, after what I just went through I will be checking my rockers more frequently.
King GTS
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 1bad gts:
Bad Byte we are talking a few hundred dollars here on of all things a valvetrain part.The quality of the T are so much superior to the Arrows why take a chance especially since alot of the modifyed cars are run very hard.My car for instance is often used by McMullus Argus Publications (Muscle Mustang Fast Ford Mag ,Mopar Performance ILL ect )as a test car.To me it does not make sense to take such a chance for the amount of money involved.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I can attest to this 100%! I had Arrow's on my Viper. It ran fine for @ 3 months. I found out about Arrow Rockers last month the hard way when I was broken down on the side of the freeway waiting for a flatbed in the heat! I was driving on the freeway and it literally felt like somebody threw a dumbell in my engine! My steering wheel was even shook! Took it in and sure enough, Arrow Rockers!
And this just happened to me recently! My Viper Tech told me that Arrows were the cheapest, worst, rocker ever! He said although anything might break, he'd NEVER seen a set of T&D's ever break! Coming from a Viper Tech - that says a lot. Needless to say, T&D's were purchased immediately!
Bad Byte we are talking a few hundred dollars here on of all things a valvetrain part.The quality of the T are so much superior to the Arrows why take a chance especially since alot of the modifyed cars are run very hard.My car for instance is often used by McMullus Argus Publications (Muscle Mustang Fast Ford Mag ,Mopar Performance ILL ect )as a test car.To me it does not make sense to take such a chance for the amount of money involved.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I can attest to this 100%! I had Arrow's on my Viper. It ran fine for @ 3 months. I found out about Arrow Rockers last month the hard way when I was broken down on the side of the freeway waiting for a flatbed in the heat! I was driving on the freeway and it literally felt like somebody threw a dumbell in my engine! My steering wheel was even shook! Took it in and sure enough, Arrow Rockers!
Marc Lublin
Enthusiast
Tony,
I had a set of comp cams rockers on my 94. They became so misaligned on the valve stems that they ground away the tops of a few of my valve stems and mashed the keepers. I was probably a couple of revolutions away from dropping a valve. That's how it happens.
Bad Byte,
Nope that wasn't my name on the box, I have T&D's on my 94 & 2000. I never contemplated anything else from all the great reviews they have gotten since they have been offered for the Viper. I don't recall hearing any stories of T&D failures.
I had a set of comp cams rockers on my 94. They became so misaligned on the valve stems that they ground away the tops of a few of my valve stems and mashed the keepers. I was probably a couple of revolutions away from dropping a valve. That's how it happens.
Bad Byte,
Nope that wasn't my name on the box, I have T&D's on my 94 & 2000. I never contemplated anything else from all the great reviews they have gotten since they have been offered for the Viper. I don't recall hearing any stories of T&D failures.
kverges
Enthusiast
Who here personally installed rockers? I know I am in the minority in having done it myself and had no problem with Crowers (and I would expect no problems with Arrow or T&D).
The install is CRITICAL. If you have a failure down the road, what installer is going to say "I probably did not set the lash right, or did not torque the poly locks, or did not carefully inspect the geometry, or did not double-check the lash after run-in, or did not properly torque and loc-tite the studs, or something else, so I'll buy you a new engine."
Get real. If someone else did it, there is a high likelihood that they will say it was the part defect rather than an installation error, especially if no definitive cause can be found (the mayhem in a hurt engine can make the original cause hard to discern). Also, if someone else did it, you have no idea what happened other than what you are told by someone who has a financial incentive to point away from their work. There aren't many business that can suffer a Viper engine rebuild hickey.
I am not saying that rocker arms can't fail, and with my luck my engines will grenade tomorrow after spouting off, but when I see posts from people who did not do the work and whose sole diagnosis is via secondary cell phone hearsay, well I gotta wonder . . . . ;-)
The install is CRITICAL. If you have a failure down the road, what installer is going to say "I probably did not set the lash right, or did not torque the poly locks, or did not carefully inspect the geometry, or did not double-check the lash after run-in, or did not properly torque and loc-tite the studs, or something else, so I'll buy you a new engine."
Get real. If someone else did it, there is a high likelihood that they will say it was the part defect rather than an installation error, especially if no definitive cause can be found (the mayhem in a hurt engine can make the original cause hard to discern). Also, if someone else did it, you have no idea what happened other than what you are told by someone who has a financial incentive to point away from their work. There aren't many business that can suffer a Viper engine rebuild hickey.
I am not saying that rocker arms can't fail, and with my luck my engines will grenade tomorrow after spouting off, but when I see posts from people who did not do the work and whose sole diagnosis is via secondary cell phone hearsay, well I gotta wonder . . . . ;-)
Lee Dove
Enthusiast
The only thing Arrow had a problem with was the adjusters they were to hard and broke up. That problem has been fixed and no more problems. And by the way for those that don't know it the Arrow rockers are made by Harland Sharp one of the most respected names in rocker arms.......
If you are going to run your Viper over 6500 rpm on a regular basis then yes the T&D's are the ticket. But, on a motor that makes all it's horsepower by around 5500 I think that they are unnecessary.......jmho
If you are going to run your Viper over 6500 rpm on a regular basis then yes the T&D's are the ticket. But, on a motor that makes all it's horsepower by around 5500 I think that they are unnecessary.......jmho
Anthony - 98 GTS
Enthusiast
For those that asked following is a pic of the T&D's being installed in my GTS:
SNKBYT
Enthusiast
Trey: Could you please tell us what actually failed on the Arrow rockers. Did a roller break,pin,or the rocker itself. I am very interested in knowing which part actualy failed since I just installed a set of Arrows. Thanks Tim. P.S. Did you follow up with Arrow to confirm the defective part?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lee Dove:
The only thing Arrow had a problem with was the adjusters they were to hard and broke up.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I have also seen this first hand with the Arrow rockers.
The only thing Arrow had a problem with was the adjusters they were to hard and broke up.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I have also seen this first hand with the Arrow rockers.
Bad_Byte
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SNKBYT:
Trey: Could you please tell us what actually failed on the Arrow rockers. Did a roller break,pin,or the rocker itself. I am very interested in knowing which part actualy failed since I just installed a set of Arrows. Thanks Tim. P.S. Did you follow up with Arrow to confirm the defective part?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
What he said.
Trey, maybe, if you don't mind, you could call your Viper tech and he could tell us in more specific terms what failed. Not trying to be a smart A** here I'm seriously an inquiring mind.
Does anybody know what materials are used in the manufacturing process for each type rocker arm? Maybe its a trade secret but they both appear to be made from aluminum stock. Maybe we're all talking about different generations of rockers.
You know like I'm a ZZ Top & Doors rocker and my daughter is a Brittany Speers & Back Street boys rocker ...
Sorry just trying to lighten it up in here.
PS: Are there any known issues involved with installing T&D rockers. I hear there are some, that its not just torque and adjust. Besides push rod length that is.
Trey: Could you please tell us what actually failed on the Arrow rockers. Did a roller break,pin,or the rocker itself. I am very interested in knowing which part actualy failed since I just installed a set of Arrows. Thanks Tim. P.S. Did you follow up with Arrow to confirm the defective part?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
What he said.
Trey, maybe, if you don't mind, you could call your Viper tech and he could tell us in more specific terms what failed. Not trying to be a smart A** here I'm seriously an inquiring mind.
Does anybody know what materials are used in the manufacturing process for each type rocker arm? Maybe its a trade secret but they both appear to be made from aluminum stock. Maybe we're all talking about different generations of rockers.
You know like I'm a ZZ Top & Doors rocker and my daughter is a Brittany Speers & Back Street boys rocker ...
Sorry just trying to lighten it up in here.
PS: Are there any known issues involved with installing T&D rockers. I hear there are some, that its not just torque and adjust. Besides push rod length that is.
King GTS
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kverges:
Who here personally installed rockers? I know I am in the minority in having done it myself and had no problem with Crowers (and I would expect no problems with Arrow or T).
The install is CRITICAL. If you have a failure down the road, what installer is going to say "I probably did not set the lash right, or did not torque the poly locks, or did not carefully inspect the geometry, or did not double-check the lash after run-in, or did not properly torque and loc-tite the studs, or something else, so I'll buy you a new engine."
Get real. If someone else did it, there is a high likelihood that they will say it was the part defect rather than an installation error, especially if no definitive cause can be found (the mayhem in a hurt engine can make the original cause hard to discern). Also, if someone else did it, you have no idea what happened other than what you are told by someone who has a financial incentive to point away from their work. There aren't many business that can suffer a Viper engine rebuild hickey.
I am not saying that rocker arms can't fail, and with my luck my engines will grenade tomorrow after spouting off, but when I see posts from people who did not do the work and whose sole diagnosis is via secondary cell phone hearsay, well I gotta wonder . . . . ;-)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You see guys, it's people like this that make me go OFF and light people up on the internet! I try & I try to be nice - but some people just naturally bring out the SMACK in me.
I tell ya what. I'll just take this one on the chin so when the next idiot ****** me off, everyone can attest to the fact that I do have self control!
When I dyno my car, I take it to an independent. Someone who has no vested interest in the outcome. When my car broke down because of THE PIECE OF S*** ARROWS THAT YOU LIKE SO MUCH I did the same thing. I took it to my Viper Tech, not the Tuner that did the install. Your whole Post basically insinuated that my Viper Tech was the one that did the install. That he had some sort of vested interest in the outcome. NOT! He had no interest in it at all!
He was the "independent" I used and if I trust him with a near $135,000 Viper - then that speaks volumes for the freakin guy! So I wouldn't call that 2nd hand cell phone info.
BTW, when I had them fixed, I sent it to another Tuner, other than the Tuner that did the install, and it's kinda funny that he gave me the EXACT same diagnosis that my Viper Tech did.
He's doing me a favor by diagnosing the problem for me so I could be informed when I took it back to the original installer/Tuner.
But I guess some people on this Board missed their calling in life and could actually be Viper Techs themselves. I was just about to post the Viper Techs name & dealership so you could call him yourself and talk to him, just to prove my point, but I want you to have Arrows in your Viper now. And besides, you wouldn't believe him anyway - you didn't actually see the install - right?
Who here personally installed rockers? I know I am in the minority in having done it myself and had no problem with Crowers (and I would expect no problems with Arrow or T).
The install is CRITICAL. If you have a failure down the road, what installer is going to say "I probably did not set the lash right, or did not torque the poly locks, or did not carefully inspect the geometry, or did not double-check the lash after run-in, or did not properly torque and loc-tite the studs, or something else, so I'll buy you a new engine."
Get real. If someone else did it, there is a high likelihood that they will say it was the part defect rather than an installation error, especially if no definitive cause can be found (the mayhem in a hurt engine can make the original cause hard to discern). Also, if someone else did it, you have no idea what happened other than what you are told by someone who has a financial incentive to point away from their work. There aren't many business that can suffer a Viper engine rebuild hickey.
I am not saying that rocker arms can't fail, and with my luck my engines will grenade tomorrow after spouting off, but when I see posts from people who did not do the work and whose sole diagnosis is via secondary cell phone hearsay, well I gotta wonder . . . . ;-)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You see guys, it's people like this that make me go OFF and light people up on the internet! I try & I try to be nice - but some people just naturally bring out the SMACK in me.
I tell ya what. I'll just take this one on the chin so when the next idiot ****** me off, everyone can attest to the fact that I do have self control!
When I dyno my car, I take it to an independent. Someone who has no vested interest in the outcome. When my car broke down because of THE PIECE OF S*** ARROWS THAT YOU LIKE SO MUCH I did the same thing. I took it to my Viper Tech, not the Tuner that did the install. Your whole Post basically insinuated that my Viper Tech was the one that did the install. That he had some sort of vested interest in the outcome. NOT! He had no interest in it at all!
He was the "independent" I used and if I trust him with a near $135,000 Viper - then that speaks volumes for the freakin guy! So I wouldn't call that 2nd hand cell phone info.
BTW, when I had them fixed, I sent it to another Tuner, other than the Tuner that did the install, and it's kinda funny that he gave me the EXACT same diagnosis that my Viper Tech did.
He's doing me a favor by diagnosing the problem for me so I could be informed when I took it back to the original installer/Tuner.
But I guess some people on this Board missed their calling in life and could actually be Viper Techs themselves. I was just about to post the Viper Techs name & dealership so you could call him yourself and talk to him, just to prove my point, but I want you to have Arrows in your Viper now. And besides, you wouldn't believe him anyway - you didn't actually see the install - right?
