100% SERIOUS WARNING !! Bobby Archer !! WARNING!!
- Thread starter 2002_Viper_GTS_ACR
- Start date
viprvenm
Enthusiast
Amen. I am the Front Desk Manager at a hotel and know personally it takes a few seconds to issue a credit where credit is due. I know nothing of Bobby and have never dealt with him. I do know that if this story is true and accurate the ball is in Bobby's court and he needs to step up. Good luck to you buddy!
DEVILDOG
VCA Member North TX
Well I was going to get a street setup/alignment from him...guess I won't now. Thanks for posting.
ViperNM
Enthusiast
Oh khumba yah my lord, khumba yah …
Before we get all warm and fuzzy inside and believe that Jon’s experience was an isolated case, I have my own experience to share with you all. I only hinted at this and PM’ed (and emailed) several of you. Many of you wondered why I didn’t post some of the details since the Viper community needs to know which vendors/shops are worth our time and which ones are not. Hopefully, I’ll address these and other questions.
First a little background. In July 2004 I had an 'off track incident' in Pueblo, CO. I was there for an SCCA regional event. Long story short is I was thrown off the track in my 01 ACR and ended up impacting into a dirt barrier. Most of the damage was mechanical such as transmission oil cooler, radiator, A/C condensor, tie rod ends, ABS unit, and the steering rack and pinion. The major body damage consisted of radiator support, strut brace bent, driver’s side fender liner, driver’s side sill, driver’s door, minor damage to the hood, a kinked front clip, and one headlight. The car was transported back home to a local dealership July 19, 2004. The body shop at the dealer inspected the car and got it on a frame rack by the end of the week.
The body shop thought the clip could be straightened since it was not torn from the frame welds. They were backed up for several weeks and ran the idea of taking it to a Viper specialist out of town. Most of the recommendations I received were either Woodhouse, Bobby Archer, 3R in Denver and a few others. I decided to go with Bobby Archer and he picked up the car early the next week to take it to Fort Worth. Before the car left town, I took pictures of the damage to the front clip, body etc.
Bobby and I talked about the repairs and we agreed that undamaged used body parts would be fine and if he could save the clip great. A few of the parts were used such as the ABS unit which is very expensive. My concern was to get the car right and in-spec. The car was ‘finished’ Labor Day weekend and it was back in town by Sunday. When I got the car back I noticed what I thought were a few ‘small problems’. So I started a list of things I found that Sunday and prepared a letter to the same local dealer.
Here's the letter I wrote to them detailing the issues I found with the car:
September 7, 2004
Dealer name withheld
Attn. Mr. __________
XXXX _______, NE
Albuquerque, NM 87110
Mr.,
Since I got the car back from Ft. Worth this weekend and having a chance to wash and thoroughly inspect my 2001 ACR Viper here are several issues I found:
- Steering wheel is rotated approximately 1/4 turn to the right when the front wheels are straight.
o Steering rack needs to be centered?
o Car needs alignment? Check tires for wear.
- Air bag light stays on in message center.
- Theft system is inoperable. The car locks and unlocks with the transmitter fob but cannot be armed.
- The repaired hood has several problems. They are:
o Doesn’t latch correctly and is way out of alignment.
o The NACA duct cover is not flush.
o The hood has several marks/scratches.
o The hood has orange peel and was not wet sanded or compounded correctly.
o The hood medallion and decals on both fenders are missing.
- The repaired drivers door has several problems. They are:
o Leaks air/water. The top of the door glass doesn't fit the weather strip correctly.
o The door is out of alignment with the hood and rubs when closing.
o The outer stanchion (glossy exterior black plastic to the rear of the door glass) is scuffed and should be replaced. I don’t think this plastic can be repaired but I may be wrong.
o The drivers door pops open on its own when closed but not locked. Also, the rubber weather stripping is split in several places.
- The replacement front fascia also has several problems. They are:
o The fascia has orange peel and the paint is peeling. I wonder if the painter added rubber compound to the paint before application?
- The rear bumper cover is missing three of the screws on the drivers side rear wheel well and there is a split in the bumper where the middle screw goes. The bumper is very dull which looks like it was buffed through the clear coat.
- The drivers side rear quarter panel is scuffed along the rear wheel well. It actually looks like it was buffed too hard and took some paint off.
- The passenger door has several problems. They are:
o The door is out of alignment and it sticks when opened. The door is starting to tear the door sill weather strip.
o The door is starting to scratch the upper part of the inside of the door.
o The door has various scratches/marks.
o Like the drivers door, the outer stanchion is scuffed and should be repaired/replaced.
- The drivers side rear quarter panel has scratches/marks near the rear wheel well.
- The rear spoiler has various marks/scratches.
- The replaced drivers side door sill (rocker panel) has a 2 inch mark (indentation in paint) in the rear portion of the sill below the door/rear quarter panel seam.
The repairs were performed by
Bobby Archer’s Motorsports Parts & Equipment
1033 N. Henderson Street
Fort Worth, Texas 76107
and their phone numbers are:
(817) 877-1772
FAX (817) 877-5493
1-800-696-0264.
You should deal directly with Bobby Archer.
I do not believe that the repairs to the frame and body included a complete paint job. Those parts that were either replaced or repaired included the drivers door, driver’s side sill, rear bumper cover and the hood. They should have been painted correctly. As you can see, this was not the case. There is rubbing compound/polish in most all the crevices on the car.
My assumption was that the car would be returned 100% mechanically and the body would be free of marks. Mechanically, the car has only a few issues remaining such as the steering wheel alignment, theft system, and air bag light. The biggest issue with the body is alignment of the hood and doors. This is my evaluation and I would like your shop to evaluate the car because you're the pros and I might have missed something.
At this time, I probably cannot afford a complete paint job. Maybe some of the costs that Bobby Archer is responsible for can defray the cost of a new paint job. At a minimum, lets look at blending-in/touching-up those areas that Bobby Archer is not responsible for.
Thank you,
Michael Tobin
(Work)
(Home)
(Mobile)
END OF LETTER ....
And then I get a call from the dealer on Friday on my way home from work that I need to come down to the shop and take a look at the car. What they found, upon further inspection and putting the car on a frame rack, was that the front end was so bad it didn't even register on the rack. I have all the frame measurements after I got the car back from Bobby Archer's. In fact, it looked like they took a 'come along' and tried to pull the front clip back into place. It was so bad that there were tears where the front clip was welded to the main frame. Contacting Bobby proved to be pointless as he dodged me and the service guys here in town for weeks. All I wanted from Bobby was for him to reimburse me for the work that would have to be done to clean up his shoddy work. He wanted the car back so he could inspect the car. Not a chance.
At this point my choices were to hire an attorney since I had all the documentation complete with pictures, frame measurements, sworn statements from over three reputable dealers who would vouch for the shi**y work he did or leave it alone. My attorney also told me to start a log of all calls, faxes that either I made or the dealer made on my behalf in contacting Bobby Archer. I left it alone on the advice of my attorney since he said the only winners were the lawyers.
So I ordered a brand new clip from D-C and had it properly welded to the frame. The total cost to clean up the mess that Archer made was over $7500 and this was a bargain basement price. The guys at the dealership, who are good friends of mine, gave me the 'super bro' discount. It should have been over $10,000. I got the car back in November of 2004 and spent the next several months shaking the car out. This is to be expected since the front end of the car was completely disassembled. The final frame measurements were within +/- 1 mm at the control arms and +/- 2 mm everywhere else. After all this time the car is back to where it was before the accident. And it was done correctly -- no thanks to Bobby Archer.
I have left out a lot of details but you get the idea. Trust me, I have only given the ‘cliff notes’ version. In retrospect, I would have used the local guys from the start or Woodhouse in Nebraska.
So I have and will take every opportunity to let people know the kind of work that is performed at Bobby Archer Motorsports. Whenever people ask for advice on who to go to for repairs I warn them (by PM in the past) about Bobby Archer's. But until now, I haven’t done it publicly on this forum. When the guy runs ads (especially wheels) on eBay I very discreetly warn people. The guy is a great driver but cannot be trusted.
Remarks/Possible questions:
1. Did Bobby Archer do anything correct on my car?
Honestly, the important mechanical items were taken care of satisfactorily. The body/frame work is another matter.
2. Its been over 16 months since my off-track excursion and about 12 months since I had to clean up after Archer’s work – why did you wait so long to come forward?
I decided not to pursue the legal route to compel him to pay me for the extra work I had to do to make the car correct. Angry? Sure I was angry and all it did was make me sick dwelling on it. I mean it ***** the life right out of you. So I re-directed my energy in becoming my car’s caregiver. And she is beautiful.
3. After all this time, was it worth bringing your car back to like new?
Well, all together, it cost me $35K to repair the ACR. She’s as good as before my track excursion. The car is totally back in spec. including the frame and body panel alignment. Most repaired Vipers are not. After all the rework was done, I still found little things that were not quite right. From last November until this past spring I put over 3000 miles on the car to really shake it out. It takes a lot of time and dedication to do this but I would my put the fit and finish of my car up against any other Viper GTS/ACR. In other words, I did my due dilegence but I don’t know if I would ever go through this again. But it was worth it now that everything is worked out and I have just been enjoying riding her these past several months.
4. You have it out for Bobby Archer and made most of this stuff up right?
You can't make this stuff up.
Konstantin82
Enthusiast
Jon, Im sorry to hear about this kind of B/S. Theres no excuse for poor customer service of any kind especially Dodge Vipers Customers, you know it's easier to prevent problems than to solve them and it sounds like Bobby Archer got himself into a big problem because word of mouth is alot when it comes to business, I am a new viper owner and when I hear bad deals like this, it ****** me off too, and we should all stick together and do the right thing out and talk about these screw ups so potential customers wont fall in this hole and try to solve it because it ***** right and I know how you feel Jon, Im sorry, & I wish you the best and to all others too. Stay true to each other. Konstantin
BobK898
Enthusiast
Wow, what a lowlife.
2MANYTOYS
Enthusiast
He needs to be banned like H e n essy!
OP
OP
2002_Viper_GTS_ACR
Enthusiast
No suprise, but no credit has posted to my account yet. My bank says that at most it would take 48 hours, so if I dont see it by tomorrow by 1pm ET, they are confident it means that the credit was not submitted/issued by Bobby Archer yesterday as communicated.
I am holding out hope, that they did infact do as they stated, and I'll update you guys tomorrow. I am keeping my fingers crossed, but if this was just another stall tactic, its going to get ugly.
Jon
I am holding out hope, that they did infact do as they stated, and I'll update you guys tomorrow. I am keeping my fingers crossed, but if this was just another stall tactic, its going to get ugly.
Jon
OP
OP
2002_Viper_GTS_ACR
Enthusiast
uh no, no one said its all khumba yah over here. The issue is not closed, I was simply sending an update on what the newest communications between me and Bobby Archer were. There is no khumba yah here, because even when I get my money back, and I will get it back, I won't ever deal with Bobby Archer again.
"Do me wrong once, shame on you, Do me wrong twice, shame on me" I wont let anyone do me wrong twice.
Jon
ViperNM
Enthusiast
The silence from Fort Worth is deafening ...
ViperNM
Enthusiast
Here they are:
Bobby Archer’s Motorsports Parts & Equipment
1033 N. Henderson Street
Fort Worth, Texas 76107
and their phone numbers are:
(817) 877-1772
FAX (817) 877-5493
1-800-696-0264.
OP
OP
2002_Viper_GTS_ACR
Enthusiast
Well actually, the converstaion I had with them, in reference to this post, is that it seems to be a run-a-way train, and that they really dont know what they could post to make it better. And I am not saying I dissagree or agree with them. But I understand, if you can't win, or if people are going to jump on you for it, sometimes silence is better.
EITHER WAY.. I called my Bank, they said THAT THEY (THE BANK) issued me my credit, and if Archer did it also, they will simply remove their credit, and allow the ARCHER one to stay. But I dont really care, I got my money back :-D and if the credit doesnt come through from Archer, they just Robbed a bank (because the bank has taken ownership of this one now). :-D
Jon
EITHER WAY.. I called my Bank, they said THAT THEY (THE BANK) issued me my credit, and if Archer did it also, they will simply remove their credit, and allow the ARCHER one to stay. But I dont really care, I got my money back :-D and if the credit doesnt come through from Archer, they just Robbed a bank (because the bank has taken ownership of this one now). :-D
Jon
FlyBryViper
Viper Owner
Wow, I've had great business experiences with Bobby and his company. He even hauled my car back from Gingerman this year since I had a business call come up. His guys did some excellent work on my car while they had it and brought a few things to my attnetion.
Jon, glad you got your money back. Are you still going to search for a set of those wheels? Hope you make it to VIR in 06.
Jon, glad you got your money back. Are you still going to search for a set of those wheels? Hope you make it to VIR in 06.
Shutdown
Enthusiast
Posts like Jon's have kept me from buying from the wrong outfit and, in one case, a terrible Viper!
Shutdown
2001 ACR
2002 Daytona #9 of 9, FEV#142
Shutdown
2001 ACR
2002 Daytona #9 of 9, FEV#142
OP
OP
2002_Viper_GTS_ACR
Enthusiast
Finallyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Issue is over in my book. Bobby Archer did credit me the money back. I just verified it 10 mins ago. But so did my bank.. lol, so I have a huge credit on my account right now ;-) The bank will take their money back, now that Bobby Stepped up. And I am sure the issue will be closed in everyones book now.
I do want to reiterate, even now, after I got the money, that I never wanted it to come to this. I did keep my mouth shut for over a month, giving these folks the benefit of the doubt. It was nothing personal, but it is business and it is my money. Again, no *** by ya around here, as I hated it had to come to this, but I am glad the issue is now closed, and effectively Bobby just got an interest free loan for a month on $3250, just glad he eventually did the right thing.
In closing, I do want to say, we as a Viper Community/Family do need to watch out for each other, and being silent often will do nothing to protect others in the family. We have to speak out on significant issues, so that others can avoid similar pitfalls.
Thanks again for all the support.
Jon
Issue is over in my book. Bobby Archer did credit me the money back. I just verified it 10 mins ago. But so did my bank.. lol, so I have a huge credit on my account right now ;-) The bank will take their money back, now that Bobby Stepped up. And I am sure the issue will be closed in everyones book now.
I do want to reiterate, even now, after I got the money, that I never wanted it to come to this. I did keep my mouth shut for over a month, giving these folks the benefit of the doubt. It was nothing personal, but it is business and it is my money. Again, no *** by ya around here, as I hated it had to come to this, but I am glad the issue is now closed, and effectively Bobby just got an interest free loan for a month on $3250, just glad he eventually did the right thing.
In closing, I do want to say, we as a Viper Community/Family do need to watch out for each other, and being silent often will do nothing to protect others in the family. We have to speak out on significant issues, so that others can avoid similar pitfalls.
Thanks again for all the support.
Jon
OP
OP
2002_Viper_GTS_ACR
Enthusiast
jon way to go, you did the right thing.it's sad you had to resort to
this post but it worked. the one thing that will never show is how much money
and time you have saved others.
good job
Thanks WANTED. I know I saved you from a potentially bad purchase just a week or so ago (thanks for the pm on it). So its good to know, my efforts are not falling on deaf ears. And I sure appeciate it when others do the same thing for me. I never bought anything from Elite, even though I was going to, simply due to someone having the courage to post about a really bad issue they were having with them. So we can all do our part to save the family as much as possible.
Cheers and Happy Thanksgiving to the Viper Community !!
Jon
ViperNM
Enthusiast
Glad it worked out for you Jon. That's good news. And thanks again for the PM. I heard you.
Happy Thanksgiving everybody!
Mike
Happy Thanksgiving everybody!
Mike
Glad it all finally worked out, I know you did not want to post but you know what THATS more then likely what got this resolved (hate to say it) so it DID work out for the best so don't beat yourself up over it.
Glad your whole again.
gts_2001
Enthusiast
Sadly missing from this whole litany is any comment, excuse, explanation or apology from Bobby Archer. It would seem that, solely as the result of his own doing, he now bears the scarlet letter. In Nathaniel Hawthorne's book The Scarlet Letter, Hester Prynne was forced to wear the scarlet "A" as a result of her indiscretions. We know that the "A" didn't stand for Archer. Will Bobby now be forced to wear the scarlet "A" as well? In Bobby's case, what will the scarlet "A" stand for?
What sez you, Bobby?
Now is your chance. Hard earned US greenbacks are on the line. What say the rest?
What sez you, Bobby?
Now is your chance. Hard earned US greenbacks are on the line. What say the rest?
OP
OP
2002_Viper_GTS_ACR
Enthusiast
I guess I can appeciate what you are trying to do, but really its kicking sand in Bobbys face. I dont know him to be a bad person, I just know he is not someone I will do further business with. If he comes on here admitting anything other then the facts, I will contest with vigor, and if he admits to his mistake/wrong doing, you might all think he is shaddy and just trying to cover his ***. So I dont know if he will, but if he does, will it add any value for him?? Silence is golden sometimes, not speaking, maybe its means he doesnt admit to any of it. Not sure. Just glad I have my money back.
Jon
