1000 hp twin turbo Vipers

[black mamba1]

You veterans please bear with me. I just got my SRT 10 last September, its modded to about 580 flywheel hp from full Belanger exhaust and VEC3. I break the tires loose even in 4th gear at times. I know I have not had warm weather since I bought the car, but if I am breaking the tires loose in the first 4 gears, how on earth are you guys w/ 1000 hp twin turbo cars controlling these cars in daily driving? My car has scared the sh*t out of me at over 100 mph w/ some wheel spin. I am considering the Heffner TT set up, but I do not want to lose daily driveability.

 

[ZO6KLR]

I believe with an AEM and a conservative tune these hi-horsepower cars are very streetable, even driven daily. There a few members that have TT and drive their cars regularly. I think it is a little overkill for daily driving and more for track application. Anytime you get into this HP range your problem is going to be traction, as is always the case. I think anything over 700 HP should have the proper suspension and tires to take advantage of all that power. I'm all about high horsepower, but if you can't get it to hook what's the use?

 

[black mamba1]

I believe with an AEM and a conservative tune these hi-horsepower cars are very streetable, even driven daily. There a few members that have TT and drive their cars regularly. I think it is a little overkill for daily driving and more for track application. Anytime you get into this HP range your problem is going to be traction, as is always the case. I think anything over 700 HP should have the proper suspension and tires to take advantage of all that power. I'm all about high horsepower, but if you can't get it to hook what's the use?

That is exactly my point. Right now I am waiting on the Roe Gen 3 charger which makes significant power starting around 2000 rpm I believe; and there have been several comments from those having Roe chargers about how much tire spin they get and the difficulty controlling the car out of corners during acceleration. The turbo's kick in around 1500 rpm, and with much more torque. I see absolutely no way to tame this for street driving unless you have drag radials or something bording slicks. I saw a [*****] 1000 hp TT Viper run 11.0 in the 1/4 mile (Road and Track), tires smoking almost all the way.

 

[Andrew/USPWR]

What about changes the rear gears for more top end?

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Was the AEM comment not hinting at using the traction control feature?

 

[rcl4668]

Black Mamba --

Hey, I am sorry to divert your thread but canI ask you a question about your Belllanger headers?

I have a 2008 Viper on order and am planning on upgrading the car with the Mopar upgrades featured at the Detroit Auto Show this past January. Specifically, from pictures of the 2008 Viper with the Mopar upgrades it appears that the Mopar headers might be supplied by Bellanger.

Question 1: How much did it cost to purchase and install the headers? In my budget, i have estimated about $8,000 but that is my total, uneducated guess.

Question 2: I would like the 2008 Viper to have between 630-675 flywheel horsepower after adding the Mopar parts (Mopar cold air intake, Mopar headers and Mopar cat-back exhaust). Do you have any idea how much of a horsepower gain you experienced through just the Bellanger headers?

Question 3: Have you had any issues with DMV smog certification or emissions testing where you live (assuming your state even does emissions testing on cars)?

Question 4: What is VEC3?

Again, sorry for the hijack of your thread but I don't know many folks who have this modification.

/Rich

 

[Shandon]

You may have answered your own question. I have found day and night difference in traction because of outside temperatures especially with the run-craps. I won't put over 3Krpm to the wheels when its under 40. When it's 65+ then the tires really seems to hook up. I have had one of those "scared SH*&*(*^LESS " times myself and it was me putting to much to the rear wheels when they were cold and so was the pavement. Hope this helps.

 

[repiv]

Traction is definitely a problem, but with proper throttle modulation and decent tires (Sport cups, warmed) or drag radials for straight line fun, there is no feeling like a TT viper.

City driving in the car is fine, no different that my paxton car, but when you put your foot in it all hell will break loose, and you will get to any speed much much quicker than you can anticipate, so you want to insure that you have the appropriate stopping distance..........

 

[DEADEYE]

I thought my 630 rwhp was plenty enough...until I ran a 700 rwhp Supra on the hwy. We went from an 80 roll and he pulled on me. Now I want a N20/ propane kit with a 200 shot

 

[VIPER D]

here is an easy fix!!!

You must be registered for see images attach

vd..

 

[Joseph Dell]

The AEM traction control isn't very good at all. i'd avoid it if possible.

 

[johnk]

here is an easy fix!!!

You must be registered for see images attach

vd..

Sure wish they made them in 2006 sizes....

 

[Casey]

TTs properly tuned can be daily drivers if wanted @ 1000hp.

Get some stickier tires for sure. Those run craps are not what you want to have with a High HP Viper!

Good luck!

 

[KepRght]

your forgetting with a decent computer in your turbo build you can have progressive boost roll on at speed, or a specific gear. knock sensors on the block to aid tuning. its all in system details. aka $$.

on the cheap you could setup a manual boost dial, change your max boost at will. 1200hp for a couple races, dial the boost down & hp back to 800 for daily driving.

the power and flexibility of turbo systems are great and all in the build details. its why I love turbo. dynamic output vs static roots blower output.

the computer and turbo system details is where its at.

 

[black mamba1]

Black Mamba --

Hey, I am sorry to divert your thread but canI ask you a question about your Belllanger headers?

I have a 2008 Viper on order and am planning on upgrading the car with the Mopar upgrades featured at the Detroit Auto Show this past January. Specifically, from pictures of the 2008 Viper with the Mopar upgrades it appears that the Mopar headers might be supplied by Bellanger.

Question 1: How much did it cost to purchase and install the headers? In my budget, i have estimated about $8,000 but that is my total, uneducated guess.

Question 2: I would like the 2008 Viper to have between 630-675 flywheel horsepower after adding the Mopar parts (Mopar cold air intake, Mopar headers and Mopar cat-back exhaust). Do you have any idea how much of a horsepower gain you experienced through just the Bellanger headers?

Question 3: Have you had any issues with DMV smog certification or emissions testing where you live (assuming your state even does emissions testing on cars)?

Question 4: What is VEC3?

Again, sorry for the hijack of your thread but I don't know many folks who have this modification.

/Rich

No problem Rich, I am a new owner as of last September and I know how much any info can help, so here we go. Below is a copy of my exact order and costs:

1 - anode rad. cap = $19.95
1 - 172 degree t-stat = $27.95
1 - set, S&B high flow air filters = $89.95
1 - set, Belanger headers and side pipes = $3795.00
1 - Roe Racing side sill insulation kit = $129.95

This all came for Sean Roe at Roe Racing. I had it installed by Chuck "The Best" Tator in NY for just over $1,500 plus he checked my car from bumper to bumper. Chuck Tator told me I would get 30 hp w/ just the headers alone. The VEC 3/header combo/side pipes brought my total est. hp gain to 70 hp. The VEC3 is Sean Roe's computer module that sits on top of the stock computer box and over-rides the programming for more aggressive a/f ratio's, by-passes the closed loop, etc. It helps the car take advantage of the better airflow. The VEC3 was around $1,100 extra. My car sounds like a real Viper now and it gets 10x as much attention as it used to and runs cooler and quicker. OK, so I think that addressed 1, 2 &4. Sean Roe is a genius, you gotta call him.
I have not been tested yet for emissions. You get 2 or 3 chances here in CT. If I fail the first time (which I probably will) I will simply slap all the stock stuff back on for the test, then put my mods back on. That is the advantage of the bolt on stuff from Sean Roe, and the Belangers, they are bolt on, no welding. Once you put the Belangers on you will be shocked Vipers dont come from the factory like. If it were not for the smog and noise cops, I am sure they would.

 

[black mamba1]

here is an easy fix!!!

You must be registered for see images attach

vd..

Are those BFG drag radials? If not, what kind of tire is that and do they make them for Gen 3's?

 

[black mamba1]

I thought my 630 rwhp was plenty enough...until I ran a 700 rwhp Supra on the hwy. We went from an 80 roll and he pulled on me. Now I want a N20/ propane kit with a 200 shot

Deadeye you have some serious mods and a gorgeous car. I was told that when you get above 6.5 lbs boost on the Roe (or any twin screw) charger that the chargers suffers alot from heat sink and is not efficient at all. I am suprised you are running 10 lbs of boost w/ a Roe charger, is your Viper Gen 1 w/ the really strong heads that can take this boost pressure? And your exact situation w/ that Supra is why I am consider TT; plus I really wanna have some fun and hold my own at the tracks!

 

[Casey]

Those are BFGs on SSR wheels. 18". They are very inexpensive and very light! A great option.
Although, I would never use BFGs for street use again. Unless it was to the track and home. JMO

 

[black mamba1]

Those are BFGs on SSR wheels. 18". They are very inexpensive and very light! A great option.
Although, I would never use BFGs for street use again. Unless it was to the track and home. JMO

Why not use them on the street?

 

[DEADEYE]

I thought my 630 rwhp was plenty enough...until I ran a 700 rwhp Supra on the hwy. We went from an 80 roll and he pulled on me. Now I want a N20/ propane kit with a 200 shot

Deadeye you have some serious mods and a gorgeous car. I was told that when you get above 6.5 lbs boost on the Roe (or any twin screw) charger that the chargers suffers alot from heat sink and is not efficient at all. I am suprised you are running 10 lbs of boost w/ a Roe charger, is your Viper Gen 1 w/ the really strong heads that can take this boost pressure? And your exact situation w/ that Supra is why I am consider TT; plus I really wanna have some fun and hold my own at the tracks!

It's a Gen II. I have a '99 with the forged internals and h20/ **** injection so heat soke isn't much of an issue...especially on quick runs that usually take about 8-10 seconds or so. BTW My car on 8lbs dyno'd about 545 rwhp. I raised the boost 2 lbs, added headers and the h20/ **** and that gained about 80 rwhp.

Thanks for the compliment!

 

[black mamba1]

I thought my 630 rwhp was plenty enough...until I ran a 700 rwhp Supra on the hwy. We went from an 80 roll and he pulled on me. Now I want a N20/ propane kit with a 200 shot

I think you would have killed the Supra in a 1/4 mile race since the Roe makes most of its power under the curve. Having said that, you have the set up I am considering going to. I do know that there are many cars out there who have serious owners that can surprise us on the street in the 700 rwhp range; Supra's, Vettes, TT Porsches, etc. That is why I am also considering utilizing the Vipers full potential and going TT, but only if I dont lose my ability to drive my beautiful wife to the movies on a nice night, and not worrying about spinning my Viper at every gear shift! I know TT are costly, but by the time many s/c mods are fully implemented w/ other mods some guys are out of almost $15-20k. SVS/DYI turbo's are supposed to be around 12k-15k and are good for 900-1000 hp. Worth looking in to!

 

[rcl4668]

black mamba --


Thanks for the information.

/Rich

 

[SylvanSRT]

i would not do a side sill insulation kit. insulation holds in heat. when parked/after use all the retained heat will remain for longer with an insulation kit.

Also headers are not a very good horsepower/$ propostion. if you are going to TT/SC may make more sense. but the gain from headers vs. just a catback and/or removing cats is not a whole lot more. Stock paxton kits with just an exhaust system(stock headers, no cats, and mopar/borla catback) are putting down close to 700hp at the wheels

 

[black mamba1]

i would not do a side sill insulation kit. insulation holds in heat. when parked/after use all the retained heat will remain for longer with an insulation kit.

Also headers are not a very good horsepower/$ propostion. if you are going to TT/SC may make more sense. but the gain from headers vs. just a catback and/or removing cats is not a whole lot more. Stock paxton kits with just an exhaust system(stock headers, no cats, and mopar/borla catback) are putting down close to 700hp at the wheels

I agree somewhat on the headers, but results vary. Belanger claims up to 50 hp, my Viper tech and the Roe guys say its more like 30 hp. The combo of more hp, better gas mileage, and the more aggressive roar (but not obnoxious) makes the header addition worth it for me. Now, on the issue of the side insulation kit holding heat...a major problem for Gen 3 Vipers is the almost unbearable cockpit temps. My Viper cockpit now is no hotter than my convertible Benz cockpit. It is a major quality-of-ride improvement. And how exactly does the side sills holding heat a little longer hurt anything?

 

[Casey]

My experience with BFGs on the street is: Absolutely NO fun except in that straight line, while accelerating. Other than that, you feel like you are in a boat, can't take any corner, and have to pray more than ever you do Not get snuck up on by RAIN, as you will have NO chance!

Kumho are MUCH better and they stick damn near the same on the street as BFGs. And you can corner like a ****** too!

 

[black mamba1]

My experience with BFGs on the street is: Absolutely NO fun except in that straight line, while accelerating. Other than that, you feel like you are in a boat, can't take any corner, and have to pray more than ever you do Not get snuck up on by RAIN, as you will have NO chance!

Kumho are MUCH better and they stick damn near the same on the street as BFGs. And you can corner like a ****** too!

Casey, what is it like to drive your Viper thru the city? Also, what about driving shifting under hard acceleration w/ the Kumho's? Will your car stay pointed straight or does it get sideways? Any other TT Viper owners care to chime in on their experience w/ this? BTW, I refuse to put traction control on my car...traction control on a Viper? Thats like **** on a bull!

 

[DEADEYE]

Don't worry about traction issues while driving normally. You can drive normally under vacume all around town. You only boost when you want to. As for the turbo setup, you just turn down the boost with a boost controller.

 

[plumcrazy]

traction is pretty much controlled by the right foot isnt it ?

 

[DEADEYE]

Yep

 

[Casey]

As others said, traction is not an issue once you get used to it and learn the power. Spinning them straight or to the side would be up to you. Once experienced with the power, you'll know what to expect. Kumhos are the best tire I had with the Viper.

I sold my TT a year ago. Driving in the city was the same as stock. Expect those around looked even more shocked when they heard the turbo blow off!