1087 rw hp Viper

[Lawboy]

Joker:

You asked: "If the Attorney General were investigating would it not be public knowledge?"

Answer: No. The Attorney General conducts both private and public investigations. At this point in time, nothing has been made public.

You asked: "Is there anything that you know that would be allowed to be repeated? Anything on Westlaw open to the public?

Answer: No. The only thing I can repeat is what you already know. Mr. Stewart filed a complaint with the US Attorney General's office. I'm not sure if he filed a civil or criminal complaint or both. The US attorney's office does both. In my professional opinion, there is potential exposure for Mr. H in both areas.

You stated: "One thing is for certain, the litigation will drain JH of his resources. He may have to sell that house in Colorado. A person may have lost $120K, but it would seem JH will lose everything in the litigation process. How many Vipers will he have to tune to pay for his attorney? How many Viper owners will still take their Vipers to him? But hey he still has bragging rights."

My Response: Litigation is not as expensive as it is made out to be. Mr. H could probably defend this matter in either civil or criminal court for less than $100k. More likely cost would be somewhere around $60k. Now, if he loses a civil case and doesnt have the assets to cover....then things like toys and vacation homes are vulnerable and bankruptcy is declared. His homestead is protected. So is at least one car per adult in the family and up to $60k in personal property. Bank accounts could also be seized and frozen....etc...

It should be interesting to watch.

Let me give this advice as well...if I was Mr. H's attorney...the first thing I would do would be to stop him from posting on websites. Any of his past posts could be used against him. Likewise, if I represented any of the victims, I would be printing off every post Mr. H ever made concerning these matters not only on this board but every other one he posts on. Fun stuff!!!

 

[GaryA]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DgeViper1:
Gary, it sounds like you got headers, smooth tubes, a couple of filters and exhaust work alone. How long did that work take?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The whole thing took about 3 months.

I can't speculate at this point about what work was done or not done. It definitely has headers, exhaust and the carbon fiber airbox. The rest will be determined when Jason Heffner tears down the engine to install his amazing new supercharger system.

At the same time I ordered the Venom package I also opted for the 14" Brembo setup for the fronts--a rather expensive option. What I received was 13" Wilwoods (Dilusi setup).

 

[GaryA]

Dan,

I recently upgraded all four wheels to the StopTech setup. They are REALLY nice--I don't think stopping is going to be a problem.

 

[Anthony - 98 GTS]

Dan,

What did you do with your 13" Wilwoods??

 

[SnakeBitten]

LT-5 the question is DO WE BELIEVE HIM...Im inclined to believe him because if it was a built bottom end it should be able to take alot more than 12psi no prob...But after reading all this stuff about him lying to customers makes me wonder if I can believe anything he says...The car however speaks for itself...9.9 @ 150mph...WOW...Can you imagine 1400rwhp on a street driven Viper with a/c, stereo, windows, leather...Heaven

I'd be interested to see if Doug Levin or Sean or any other reputable tuner thinks the Viper bottom end could take that much punishment....A yes from any one of these guys will convince me...

 

[Gerald]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DgeViper1:

When does everyone think that they have reached the terminal point of power?


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wenyarunouttamunee

 

[SnakeBitten]

Hey DgeViper1 I understand what you are saying.....In the case of a 1000k + Viper you wont be able to use that power much on the street..So you wont get your moneys worth unless you are a trackhead and go every weekend....But it would be nice to have that kind of power on tap when you get attacked on say um the Southern State by a high powered ricer

 

[Mike Brunton]

Dan,

You have a good point - I don't think it's the absolute amount of power, it's got more to do with how streetable it is. I'd rather have an 800RWHP supercharged/turbocharged car that has a smooth powerband than a lumpy-idle stroker with NOS that was loud and hard as hell to drive on the street. If the power is smooth, and the car has good manners, you could drive a 800RWHP car around as long as you're careful.

On the other hand, like Ben Treynor was saying about his Supra, if the characteristics of the car are bad, it makes it no fun.

Remember, the throttle is progessive, not an on/off switch, so as long as the car is smooth and has good curves (hp/tq), you can go 25% throttle and be Ok. If it's peaky as hell like some Supras (where you can gain 300RWHP over a 500RPM range), it's probably a LOT harder to drive on the street.

 

[Godsil Performance]

I have been reading the Hennessey posts on here for it seems like years. I have dealt with Hennessey once and almost got screwed, but I was lucky and I won't do that route again. I have not until now commented on any of the Hennessey posts but I just thought that I would make an observation. On all the sites that Hennessey posts on I have noticed that he makes a statement at the begining of the post and then when it starts getting heated you never hear from him again. I see other posts being started by him or commented by him, so you know he is out there, but when people started getting angry and asking point blank questions, he never shows up again. I just found this interesting.

 

[viper GTS-R]

After reading such a long corvette post it sounds to me that there jealous that the vette can't win.

 

[GTS Bruce]

Wow.What a motor?Good for at least 2-3 seconds on the dyno.Make mine a normally aspirated CDI motor any day.I'm not interested in any motor capable of only running for 10-12 seconds in a straight line either.Let alone a 2-3 second dyno wonder.Make mine at least a 24 hours motor. Bruce

 

[BurnR8]

gotta go with Big Bruce on that one.....

 

[Supra]

The question is, what does your OWN car actually run? A few more questions, have you ever driven a 700+ RWHP Supra? No? Then you are once again talking out of your a$$.... Seems my own car doesn't do too bad even on drag radials.....

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LT-5@redline:

You have a VERY good point Mike B., any supra with "good" power (over 700RWHP) is going to have poor throttling and boost responce characteristics...there simply isn't enough displacement to generate enough exhaust energy to spool those large turbos quick enough to make the power delivery progressive and responsive. (not to just pick on supras, this applies for most *** cars, 3liter 6 bangers) Result : Terrible in competition on any race track or anytime you require anything short of WOT (wide open throttle) such as a staged drag strip on drag tires.

Cars with strong "area under the curve" like the Vipers or any blown domestic (especially turbocharged) could be used (VERY effectively) in any number of applications, what your peak dyno # on race fuel is isn't the best way of evaluating how "fast" a car really is.

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[Mike Brunton]

Supra,

I assume those numbers in your sig are on pump gas right? No? I don't care if you can fill up with some special brew, crank the boost and run an inflated number one time. I care alot more about what you can run day to day on the street. If you ran race gas and NOS to run a 10.xx, but you run pump gas and no NOS on the street, do you still tell everyone it's a 10-second car? I bet you do.

How well a car hooks up on drag radials at a track sprayed with VHT is *quite* different than how the same car behaves on the street. If I wanted a track monster, I'd be cheaper getting a turbocharged Mustang - they can blow BOTH of our cars away, but my 1/4 performance is a benchmark of how my STREET car is performing. I could care less about a 10 second pass if it was done in a car that can't run well on the street in that trim.

I've driven a Supra that had in the high 500's for RWHP - when the boost kicks in, they tend to light up the tires in an instant. I have been for a ride in one that was making in the 600's - it was horrible - I could never be happy driving a car like that. But I'm sure it made big numbers on the dyno, and after all, that's where a true Supra fairy does his racing - on the dyno, right?

 

[John H]

How hypocritical. The Viper in question in this thread runs on race gas. It also uses nitrous. It also uses slicks and skinnys. So, what was your point again? I'm not sure about the dyno fairy comment as the quicker street cars at any track seem to still be Supras. The Supra is a much more streetable car than any Viper. Not many vipers are daily drivers for a reason. But that's not important when talking about no-frills racing, but you brought it up. Both cars have their strong and negative points. The Viper's strong point is it's appearance. It tends to attract more little boys at the gas station. It's just funny how you have this God attitude. You get a little more lee-way because you have the color GTS I wanted [silver]. I don't give much slack for the god-attitiude when it comes from old Gen 1'ers. They obviously take a backseat at Viper meets, just as older Supras do at Supra meets. Waste of my time defending the Supra here, just as it's a waste of my time defending the Viper on the P-car list. Be nice to own both.. oh wait - nevermind.

John H

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike Brunton:
Supra,

I assume those numbers in your sig are on pump gas right? No? I don't care if you can fill up with some special brew, crank the boost and run an inflated number one time. I care alot more about what you can run day to day on the street. If you ran race gas and NOS to run a 10.xx, but you run pump gas and no NOS on the street, do you still tell everyone it's a 10-second car? I bet you do.

How well a car hooks up on drag radials at a track sprayed with VHT is *quite* different than how the same car behaves on the street. If I wanted a track monster, I'd be cheaper getting a turbocharged Mustang - they can blow BOTH of our cars away, but my 1/4 performance is a benchmark of how my STREET car is performing. I could care less about a 10 second pass if it was done in a car that can't run well on the street in that trim.

I've driven a Supra that had in the high 500's for RWHP - when the boost kicks in, they tend to light up the tires in an instant. I have been for a ride in one that was making in the 600's - it was horrible - I could never be happy driving a car like that. But I'm sure it made big numbers on the dyno, and after all, that's where a true Supra fairy does his racing - on the dyno, right?

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[John H]

LT5, what does you car run at the track? Do you even own an LT5? I thought it was funny when you were talking about having experience with twin turbo LT5s and SW (who owned the original and another of the very few) said you were lying and knew nothing about what you were saying. LOL.

You mention a Supra isn't good for roadracing. Here's a link to the results from THE roadrace at Texas MotorSpeedway last year. I mentioned this in another thread that got deleted. As I'm sure this one will because of idiots like yourself who have nothing better to do than praise and rag 2 cars you don't even own. Cudos to the Corvette for winning overall, but that's Unlimited Class using slicks and not street tires like GT. http://www.boostaholic.com/triathlon/triathlon_results.html

Have you ever actually ridden in a T88 powered Supra? Or are you lying again? I've been active in the scene since '96 and I've never gotten a ride in one as it's just as rare to see as a TT ZR1, but you know all those guys too. LOL! A T88 would be my last choice in a turbo because of it's obsolete design and size, but I wouldn't consider a ride in a 1000hp car to be "stupid". With a 8000 rpm redline, you tend to always keep the rpms above 4000 even after shifting, so I don't see a problem there if it's a strict balls to the wall setup as a T88 is or WAS. That's 9 year old technology.

And FYI, the Supra TT was never $37k. My '94 stickered at $54k, my '96 at $56k. The GTS is $73k. Use real facts when you post. Show me how the tranny, rear end, and chassis is stronger on the Viper. Use the SEARCH feature on here. Halfshafts snapping with stock tires, trannies and rear ends going out with slicks, then the entire steering linkage breaking off the chassis [TSB on this]. I've never heard of any of that happening on a Supra. I'm not flaming the Viper, just correcting your false statements. Downright flaming the Viper would be counterproductive to me. But not you though as it seems like simply a pipe dream. Do you have a bunch of Viper posters and a little model Viper on your desk? Precious.

John H


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LT-5@redline:
Supra,

...The only "a$$" on this board are those who blow their top in a derogatory manner at someone who speaks the truth JUST becuase it happens to NOT coincide with the car they happen to own (i.e. YOU). And as a matter of fact YES, I have ridden in a tuned T88 powered single turbo supra (also, cams, 6-speed, 8000 rpms redline, full exhaust, etc.) ...Let me tell you, it was the most STUPID experience I have ever had in my life. The supra was a joke frankly; NO power under 4000 rpms, then kicks in full force like a light switch at 5000+rpms. Also when he would get off the throttle to jump back on it again real quick, the turbo would lag behind the throttle adjustments considerably. This set-up which EVERY single turbo supra I've ever driven, ridden in, or seen is poor for road racing performance or anything else for that matter with the exception of WOT on drag tires at a staged drag strip. The owner of the car I'm refering to even admitted these observations and ONLY drag races the car. The trade-off of having a great responding supra is having a 500-to-600 RWHP power limit, becuase thats all a "responsively sized turbo" will roughly push on a supra. (These observations come from supra owners would actually road race, are not internet "groopies")

There are negative trade-off's to having a 3liter pea shooter, it simple physics/engineering concepts at work here. You CANNOT even begin to compare a supra to a Viper in these regards, its like comparing a civic to a supra. 10 cylinders AND 8 liters of displacement negates virtually ANY lag one encounters on a *** car. Not to mention the stronger tranny, rear end, clutch, chassis, rolling stock, etc. etc, that a Viper is built with OEM (i.e. much better overall platform for performance on ANY level)...but that's why you pay $70-80+K for a new Viper and $37-40 for a toyota supra....you get what you pay for. Work overtime, sell your toyota, buy a viper, lol.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

[SnakeBitten]

John H..No flame bro but you are kinda hypocrital yourself for hating the supposed "God mentality" of these guys..Ive seen a few of your posts where you have ragged on the Viper as well.On Supraforums all you hear is how inherently superior the Supra is to exotic cars...And when they cant avoid a car ie Viper/Vette superiority stock for stock then it comes down to "Id much perfer my Lexus interior blah blah...I prefer quality to a Neon interior blah blah. Or the old faithful "domestics breakdown all the time"...I mean come on. Supra guys are notorious for there pompous attitudes..

There was a recent thread about a guy from the UK racing his bosses 360 Modena with his "stock" Supra...Can you believe he was told that all he needed was a set of R compound tires and "maybe" coilovers to beat a Modena?????A Modena will wipe the floor with a stock Supra in any catagory...Even in interior quality....You see my point....*** calling the kettle black

BTW in Motortrend that V800 did a 9.9 @ 139 on pump gas no NOS...The recent run was done on NOS..Dont know about the race gas part...There are a few Vipers that run 9's on pump gas and 200 shot...Most of those SC'ed DLM cars make 800rwhp on pump gas....Now if they used race gas like the Supra guys it would be even more power. They can make alot more power on pump gas than a Supra can..I think that what the other guy was trying to say....

 

[SW]

BTW in Motortrend that V800 did a 9.9 @ 139 on pump gas no NOS...The recent run was done on NOS..Dont know about the race gas part...There are a few Vipers that run 9's on pump gas and 200 shot...Most of those SC'ed DLM cars make 800rwhp on pump gas....Now if they used race gas like the Supra guys it would be even more power. They can make alot more power on pump gas than a Supra can..I think that what the other guy was trying to say

SnakeBitten, don't always believe what you read. The ONLY time the VM800 went a 9.9, was with me driving it last week at the track with race gas, slicks&skinnies and N.O.S. Previously, the Motortrend driver went 10.1 on race gas, slicks&skinnies, and they CORRECTED it to a 9.9. It takes alot of hp to make a Viper run 9's. I know because I have one and a lot of my friends have modified ones. My Supra is the fastest street 6sp in the country. Without the 75 shot, it runs 148mph, with 154. I will agree with LT5 Redline, it's not about the peak number, it is the area under the curve. DLM cars are great, and make big power, but you need more than just power to run 9's. Running low tens are pretty easy, nines are harder.It took me 30 to 40 passes to get my C5(6sp) into the nines, now I can run nines right off the trailor.

LT5Redline,I rather road race than drag race too, but you are wrong about a Supra on the road course, and if need be, just let me know if you want to run...

SW

 

[SnakeBitten]

SW I stand corrected...I should know better than to just accept what these mags say....Its sad that you cant put much faith in the auto journalist say since they probably get money under the table to give favorable results...The last Sport Compact Car is a good example of this. Supra vs 360.....360 had road race tires and Rhys Milan who got more practice laps than anyone else...The Supra had street tires and the driver only got about 2 laps to get used to the track...Result...Supra lost by 5 secs on road course..The mag passed it off as a legit result....

SW how is it that Albert C[I think thats the name]ran 9's with much less power than the V800. Driver???..I think he runs 200 shot NOS...I think Ive read about a few other Vipers in the 9's with much less power than the V800 and non of them are turbo. It appears that it takes about 750rwhp to put a Viper in the 9's based on the figures of the guys that ran 9's...Is it the launch that is preventing the V800 from being a consistant 9 sec car? I imagine its hard to launch this thing without getting too much wheelspin.....At 7 psi he had enough power to be in the 9's right?..I saw the latest video of the V800....It was an extremely soft launch and it still did a 9.9 @ 150....It didnt take off nearly as hard as in the previous videos......Was this to protect the rearend, tranny etc???

Which is easier to launch..Your Supra or the V800......

 

[SW]

The VM800 off of n.o.s, doesn't have alot of instant power. It does not make full boost till, 4th gear. To get a good ET. you need a good 60ft and 1/8 mile et. I ran it without N.O.S, and went 10.2 with a 1.59 60ft. Albert's car has alot of instant power and he is a great driver too. I believe his 60fts are in the high 1.4s, but he has hit nine's a few times also. His car is making more power now, but he is having clutch problems. My blk C5 runs 9.7s consistantly with 1.49 60fts. That's leaving at 3000 rpm, anymore than that, I start breaking stub axles. Hennessey is changing the combination on the VM800 everytime he takes it to the track. When I ran the 9.9, it was making alot of bottom end power, it was either spinning hard or slipping the clutch, but he had some top end tuning issues. The Viper is much easier to launch than the Supra.

SW

 

[Supra]

My car drinks only a mix of ~40% 101 octane and ~60% 91 octane as I have a gas station less than 5 miles away (I don'r own the station) with 101 at the pump. The car ran the #'s listed that way. So basically my car on the street runs the same way as it does on the track, so it's a 10 second car all the time.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike Brunton:
Supra,

I assume those numbers in your sig are on pump gas right? No? I don't care if you can fill up with some special brew, crank the boost and run an inflated number one time. I care alot more about what you can run day to day on the street. If you ran race gas and NOS to run a 10.xx, but you run pump gas and no NOS on the street, do you still tell everyone it's a 10-second car? I bet you do.

How well a car hooks up on drag radials at a track sprayed with VHT is *quite* different than how the same car behaves on the street. If I wanted a track monster, I'd be cheaper getting a turbocharged Mustang - they can blow BOTH of our cars away, but my 1/4 performance is a benchmark of how my STREET car is performing. I could care less about a 10 second pass if it was done in a car that can't run well on the street in that trim.

I've driven a Supra that had in the high 500's for RWHP - when the boost kicks in, they tend to light up the tires in an instant. I have been for a ride in one that was making in the 600's - it was horrible - I could never be happy driving a car like that. But I'm sure it made big numbers on the dyno, and after all, that's where a true Supra fairy does his racing - on the dyno, right?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

[Supra]

So lets see, you have not driven a Supra like you describe, also you know very little about the Supra as it has a stronger Getrag tranny than the Viper/Camaro BW T56 and also a tougher rear end and halfshafts.

Lastly you didn't say what your 13 second car runs.....

BTW I love Vipers, and will get one soon, but won't replace the Supra with one, and the last Supra I had I sold for $50K last year, a 1994 Supra.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LT-5@redline:
Supra,

...The only "a$$" on this board are those who blow their top in a derogatory manner at someone who speaks the truth JUST becuase it happens to NOT coincide with the car they happen to own (i.e. YOU). And as a matter of fact YES, I have ridden in a tuned T88 powered single turbo supra (also, cams, 6-speed, 8000 rpms redline, full exhaust, etc.) ...Let me tell you, it was the most STUPID experience I have ever had in my life. The supra was a joke frankly; NO power under 4000 rpms, then kicks in full force like a light switch at 5000+rpms. Also when he would get off the throttle to jump back on it again real quick, the turbo would lag behind the throttle adjustments considerably. This set-up which EVERY single turbo supra I've ever driven, ridden in, or seen is poor for road racing performance or anything else for that matter with the exception of WOT on drag tires at a staged drag strip. The owner of the car I'm refering to even admitted these observations and ONLY drag races the car. The trade-off of having a great responding supra is having a 500-to-600 RWHP power limit, becuase thats all a "responsively sized turbo" will roughly push on a supra. (These observations come from supra owners would actually road race, are not internet "groopies")

There are negative trade-off's to having a 3liter pea shooter, it simple physics/engineering concepts at work here. You CANNOT even begin to compare a supra to a Viper in these regards, its like comparing a civic to a supra. 10 cylinders AND 8 liters of displacement negates virtually ANY lag one encounters on a *** car. Not to mention the stronger tranny, rear end, clutch, chassis, rolling stock, etc. etc, that a Viper is built with OEM (i.e. much better overall platform for performance on ANY level)...but that's why you pay $70-80+K for a new Viper and $37-40 for a toyota supra....you get what you pay for. Work overtime, sell your toyota, buy a viper, lol.

PS: I admit I don't own a supra (it's pretty ugly to me personally, I thought even the 300Z's looked better) but I don't own a Viper either. That's doesn't mean I know nothing about either or performance for that matter (since when is owning a car being an authority on it ? lol) I've own a modded 300ZXTT before, C4 vette, ZR1, Cobra, 500HP Stealth TT, Porsche 911, and many others...I road race and regularly attend/compete in such venues, I have a great drag strip (which I used to practically live at) 25 mins from my house (MIR, Maryland International Raceway)...your remark about me talking from my "a$$" is pretty ingnorant, just like your standpoint of your 6-******'s power delivery. ( I know a ***-a$$ flame will probably ensue from this post from you or the "supraforum.com" wankers, but I'll only reply to comments/discussion about "Viper performance," thanks)
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[SW]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DgeViper1:
SW,

When you say that it took "30-40 passes" to get into the 9's in your C5....does that mean simply seat time? Or did you make mods
in between?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was running 10.1-10.2's@144-145, then got down to 10.0's then finally consistant 9's with no mods in between.

SW

 

[SnakeBitten]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SW:
The VM800 off of n.o.s, doesn't have alot of instant power. It does not make full boost till, 4th gear. To get a good ET. you need a good 60ft and 1/8 mile et. I ran it without N.O.S, and went 10.2 with a 1.59 60ft. Albert's car has alot of instant power and he is a great driver too. I believe his 60fts are in the high 1.4s, but he has hit nine's a few times also. His car is making more power now, but he is having clutch problems. My blk C5 runs 9.7s consistantly with 1.49 60fts. That's leaving at 3000 rpm, anymore than that, I start breaking stub axles. Hennessey is changing the combination on the VM800 everytime he takes it to the track. When I ran the 9.9, it was making alot of bottom end power, it was either spinning hard or slipping the clutch, but he had some top end tuning issues. The Viper is much easier to launch than the Supra.

SW

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Interesting comments....So a car, for arguments sake,a car with NOS making 700rwhp would be faster than a TT or SC only car making the same 700 due to the "instant power characteristics of NOS assuming all things equal[gearing etc] I would assume the SC'ed car would be harder to beat since it has instant power as well. Ahh Im just bench racing...There are too many variables to in racing to have hard and fast rules..

I thought that with the 8L and 10 cyl the Viper would have a big reserve of low end power even without waiting for the turbos to spoolup...Is the V800 making less tq off idle than a stock Viper?...Did he lower the compression more to run more boost?

 

[SnakeBitten]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Supra:
So lets see, you have not driven a Supra like you describe, also you know very little about the Supra as it has a stronger Getrag tranny than the Viper/Camaro BW T56 and also a tougher rear end and halfshafts.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If thats true, Supra's are incredibly built...Or should I say overbuilt for that 320-340hp they were rated for....Thats a good thing....Less to change when you start making 700+ hp....Gotta give it to Toyota......I would imagine though a Supra like SW's with all that power had to break something in the drivetrain. The Viper is pretty tough too...That V800 is using the stock tranny and bottom end...Or Im I being duped by the mags again...

 

[Supra]

Snake, the Supra is indeed overbuilt, you can definitely break parts but they are tough. I believe SW's car is on a stock bottom end, tranny and rear end, as is my car.

As far as I know the same is true of HMS's TT Viper.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SnakeBitten:
If thats true, Supra's are incredibly built...Or should I say overbuilt for that 320-340hp they were rated for....Thats a good thing....Less to change when you start making 700+ hp....Gotta give it to Toyota......I would imagine though a Supra like SW's with all that power had to break something in the drivetrain. The Viper is pretty tough too...That V800 is using the stock tranny and bottom end...Or Im I being duped by the mags again...


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[Supra]

Centrifugal SC's makes less midrange HP and torque than turbos because they only have peak boost at redline.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SnakeBitten:

Originally posted by SW:
The VM800 off of n.o.s, doesn't have alot of instant power. It does not make full boost till, 4th gear. To get a good ET. you need a good 60ft and 1/8 mile et. I ran it without N.O.S, and went 10.2 with a 1.59 60ft. Albert's car has alot of instant power and he is a great driver too. I believe his 60fts are in the high 1.4s, but he has hit nine's a few times also. His car is making more power now, but he is having clutch problems. My blk C5 runs 9.7s consistantly with 1.49 60fts. That's leaving at 3000 rpm, anymore than that, I start breaking stub axles. Hennessey is changing the combination on the VM800 everytime he takes it to the track. When I ran the 9.9, it was making alot of bottom end power, it was either spinning hard or slipping the clutch, but he had some top end tuning issues. The Viper is much easier to launch than the Supra.

SW

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Interesting comments....So a car, for arguments sake,a car with NOS making 700rwhp would be faster than a TT or SC only car making the same 700 due to the "instant power characteristics of NOS assuming all things equal[gearing etc] I would assume the SC'ed car would be harder to beat since it has instant power as well. Ahh Im just bench racing...There are too many variables to in racing to have hard and fast rules..

I thought that with the 8L and 10 cyl the Viper would have a big reserve of low end power even without waiting for the turbos to spoolup...Is the V800 making less tq off idle than a stock Viper?...Did he lower the compression more to run more boost?

 

[SnakeBitten]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Supra:
Centrifugal SC's makes less midrange HP and torque than turbos because they only have peak boost at redline.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess they all have there trade-offs....I wonder if you could use a dual system on either a Supra or Viper that could utilize a SC for the low end via a clutch system that disengages at a certain rpm and engages the turbos at that rpm crossover in which case the turbos would already be spooled...That would kick *** ....There is a Benz tuner that has a similar clutch system on there supercharger kit. You can even tune it to engage only with a stomp of the gas, So its possible to drive around town with no extra wear and tear since it'll only engage with a stomp of the gas..Cant remember the name of the tuner but he is in the new EC mag......I vaguely remember a Toyota MR2 the original one having both a SC and a Turbo....Im sure someone has probably tried it already and if it could have been done reliably it would be more popular if not cheap....

 

[SW]

I got a brillant idea, we'll talk about Vipers on the "Viper Forum" and whoever can talk about how supras are faster than F-14's with the afterburners ON becuase they managed a 10-sec time at the strip for the "supraforum.com"...deal ? lol.

I guess you should only be on the ZR1 net....

SW

 

[SW]

Now your saying the tranny, rear end (powertrain basically) on the supra is stronger than a Viper. That's makes sense. A 300lb ft of torque car (OEM) has a stronger powertrain than a nearly 500 lb ft torque car (OEM). That's why these ALL these 9 sec vipers running around are still on their STOCK clutch! And how many times has a viper won the FIA GT2 championship in international road racing not only in the states but all over europe (while toyota supra's where non-existant in the relm of "professional" competition, they where NEVER anything, they never will be) I could go on and on stating how many times the blunt nosed, front heavy, high center of gravity, heavy weight, supra TRIED to be competitive in pro-racing but fell flat on their face (and I don't mean ocassional amateur club racing or SCCA either, where Vipers still dominate) but I'll just stop it as there's NO convincing a bonified fanatic at the shortcomings of their car. I bet the next statement you'll make is how a modded supra at a track somewhere in the world beat a Mclaren F1 on a racetrack, and rightly so becuase "toyota" made a better car, what does Mclaren know about building quick cars anyway...LOL ! (Sadly, you'll HONESTLY read posts like these on the "supraforum.com" all the time(quote)

The Viper does have a strong drivetrain, the stock clutch is bigger than almost any other car. The weak link are the axles. Replace them with Unitrax axles, you have pretty much bullit proof drivetrain. I'm not trying to say the Supra is the best car in the world, they are just flat impressive for a production car. There is no other car that I know of that you can get that much power out of, from a stock motor. I am a Vette guy to the end, but I got to give credit to those Toyota's. Also, Toyota has been building various Indy car motors for a while too, they do have the technology.

SW