11.1@ 127 Pretty strong!

[chorps]

Until it is proven that a 8.0L or even a 7.5L V10 can't fit under the hood of a viper I won't believe anyone just because no one tried or put the REAL effort on doing it. It is possible and I will repeat myself several times. Many, many ways to do it and still have a very well balanced car.

Vipers are for me, that is why I have a 2010 ACR. Unfortunately, in the year of 2013, automatics and DCT are way faster than any standard transmission. I like faster cars so I would like them to offer the new viper with an optional 6-7spd auto or a DCT.

That's all.

"No one tried" is basically implying that the engineers are lazy or dumb. The SRT guys aren't exactly turnips...

I know you want the magical DOHC faery dust to make the Viper 'competitive' when it is at or near the top of the class already, but you could do a *wee* bit of research on your own instead of coming here and continuing to press your armchair engineering.

Q: Did you consider overhead cams?
A: Goodness, no. This is a highly developed wedge, and we’re getting about 76 hp per liter. Going to overhead cams makes it wider, and this car is already narrow between the frame rails. We looked at putting Hemi heads on the Viper, but you can’t do it because of the width.

Who said this?

.

.

.

.

.
Dick Winkles (chief engineer, Viper Powertrain)

Can we move past the whole DOHC thing now? It's not going to happen for a long time, if ever, simply because the OHV is very competitive with OHC designs. The fastest cars are big displacement OHV cars (excepting the price unlimited vehicles).

As for your automatic and DCT request, it wasn't in the cards for the Gen V launch.

Ralph Gilles: There will be a time in the future when I’d like to have an automatic. But the cost of developing it right now would have equaled the cost of the whole program.

Moving on...

It is obvious that all the engineers want the Gen V owners to do is maybe add headers and that's about it. Just drive it and enjoy it.

Winkles also said this in the same article:

The cast pistons weren’t quite robust enough if an owner added a supercharger or a turbo or if he was pumping nitrous. Those pistons weren’t indestruct­ible. So we heard the owners’ cries, and we’re back to forged Mahles. Now we can protect the tuners from their own mistakes. We’ve also got a lower-tension ring pack with lower friction.

Looks like some people in SRT want to help the tuners...now if only they could lose an unlocked Venom controller at a local bar like that lost iPhone prototype....

Everything is excerpted from
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/2013-srt-viper-gts-in-depth-with-the-men-who-made-it-happen-feature

in May 2012.

 

[V10lover]

I agree, and it doesn't have to be AWD to do well off the line, my McLaren does 0-60 MPH in 2.8 seconds on the street..... DCT, LC, Mid-Engine, and good tires!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhhxptV2bZ8

Badazz car.

I would love to race you with my 13 mustang GTin the 1/4 if you were closer to me. It's only a mustang, I know.... I know... But My viper couldn't do much against a awesome car like that....

 

[V10lover]

You should sell your Viper because it's obsolete....

No, I love the way the car looks... Nice cruiser and still fast, but it is obsolete.

 

[chorps]

DOHC is the reality. The dreamers are the ones thinking that pushrod engines got something left in them.... OHV is obsolete for sports cars today! Plain and simple and I don't want to hurt anybodies feelings(remember I own a viper too) but all you gotta do is to look out there. Gm and Chrysler are the only ones still making the mistake while ALL the other brands found the light.

Laguna Seca track record
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz2OCzIllwS

20. 2013 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG Black Series Coupe 1:38.90
19. 2012 Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG 1:38.82
18. 2013 Ford Shelby GT500 1:38.70
17. 2011 Porsche 911 GT3 RS 1:36.77
16. 2012 Lexus LFA 1:36.39
15. 2012 Audi R8 GT 1:36.39
14. 2012 Nissan GT-R 1:36.35
13. 2103 Nissan GT-R Black Edition 1:36.34
12. 2010 Ferrari 458 Italia 1:36.22
11. 2009 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 1:35.83
10. 2013 SRT Viper GTS* 1:35.77
9. 2012 Lamborghini Aventador LP700-4 1:35.40
8. 2008 Dodge Viper ACR 1:35.12
7. 2013 SRT Viper 1:34.63
6. 2012 McLaren MP4-12C 1:34.50
5. 2012 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 1:34.43
4. 2013 SRT Viper GTS 1:34.23
3. 2010 Dodge Viper ACR** 1:33.92
2. 2013 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 1:33.70
1. 2013 SRT Viper TA 1:33.62

*Preproduction
**Driven by SRT engineer Chris Winkler

Hmmm... lemme see...
The top 5 spots are occupied by obsolete cars. What a tragic mistake! Of the top 10, 8 of them are OHV.

Oh those crazy OHV dreamers, looking at reality in the rear view mirror....

 

[VENOM V]

DOHC is the reality. The dreamers are the ones thinking that pushrod engines got something left in them.... OHV is obsolete for sports cars today! Plain and simple and I don't want to hurt anybodies feelings(remember I own a viper too) but all you gotta do is to look out there. Gm and Chrysler are the only ones still making the mistake while ALL the other brands found the light.

You remind me of a religious fanatic. Your message in moderation is valid, and you have a right to your opinion. Some agree with you, but even they don't want to hear it any more. No one wants to hear about what you're preaching, but there you are. On the street corner, with the big sign. Preaching.

 

[V10lover]

"No one tried" is basically implying that the engineers are lazy or dumb. The SRT guys aren't exactly turnips...

I know you want the magical DOHC faery dust to make the Viper 'competitive' when it is at or near the top of the class already, but you could do a *wee* bit of research on your own instead of coming here and continuing to press your armchair engineering.



Who said this?

.

.

.

.

.
Dick Winkles (chief engineer, Viper Powertrain)

Can we move past the whole DOHC thing now? It's not going to happen for a long time, if ever, simply because the OHV is very competitive with OHC designs. The fastest cars are big displacement OHV cars (excepting the price unlimited vehicles).

As for your automatic and DCT request, it wasn't in the cards for the Gen V launch.



Moving on...



Winkles also said this in the same article:


Looks like some people in SRT want to help the tuners...now if only they could lose an unlocked Venom controller at a local bar like that lost iPhone prototype....

Everything is excerpted from
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/2013-srt-viper-gts-in-depth-with-the-men-who-made-it-happen-feature

in May 2012.

Chorps,

Winkles didn't even believe that an aluminum flywheel would perform better than the stock one. He is a great guy but an OLD SCHOOL type of guy. I respect his opinion but I disagree with it.
They didn't try hard enough to MODIFY THE CAR and FRAME in ORDER TO FIT THE DOHC there. It is easy to say it is to wide, blah blah.
Did SRT really tried to fit different motors of different sizes there?
NO. Come on man. Don't believe everything you hear like a 8 year old does. That is just verbal, I didn't see anything in order to believe that.

I don't know what fairy tail you live in my friend. OHV does not even come close to DOHC. Just watch the video above on the MC laren ABOVE with an 8000RPM red line and tell me if a push rod motor can do that with valvetrain stability out of the box and PASSING EMISSIONS. Not a Sonnys engine, CHORPs,. a car that you go to the dealership and drop 100-200-300k will mostly be DOHC engine based and A LOT FASTER than any corvette or viper being sold now. What is a freaking F1 or INDY, Chorps? For Christ sake man, go do your homework and stop saying that I am bashing the engineers and all that. I am saying my opinion and that the car could be a lot better with that engine design and IT WOULD FIT WITH THE EXTRA EFFORT BEING PUT TO IT. It fit in a 1990 corvette. It fits in a C6 corvette. It would fit in a viper. Period.

The viper should have an optional for an automatic. If it needs to modify X or Z so be it. That is why those engineers are paid to do anyways. It would sell A LOT MORE VIPERS that is for sure.

 

[V10lover]

Laguna Seca track record
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz2OCzIllwS

20. 2013 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG Black Series Coupe 1:38.90
19. 2012 Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG 1:38.82
18. 2013 Ford Shelby GT500 1:38.70
17. 2011 Porsche 911 GT3 RS 1:36.77
16. 2012 Lexus LFA 1:36.39
15. 2012 Audi R8 GT 1:36.39
14. 2012 Nissan GT-R 1:36.35
13. 2103 Nissan GT-R Black Edition 1:36.34
12. 2010 Ferrari 458 Italia 1:36.22
11. 2009 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 1:35.83
10. 2013 SRT Viper GTS* 1:35.77
9. 2012 Lamborghini Aventador LP700-4 1:35.40
8. 2008 Dodge Viper ACR 1:35.12
7. 2013 SRT Viper 1:34.63
6. 2012 McLaren MP4-12C 1:34.50
5. 2012 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 1:34.43
4. 2013 SRT Viper GTS 1:34.23
3. 2010 Dodge Viper ACR** 1:33.92
2. 2013 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 1:33.70
1. 2013 SRT Viper TA 1:33.62

*Preproduction
**Driven by SRT engineer Chris Winkler

Hmmm... lemme see...
The top 5 spots are occupied by obsolete cars. What a tragic mistake! Of the top 10, 8 of them are OHV.

Oh those crazy OHV dreamers, looking at reality in the rear view mirror....

Year
(model)

Verified time
(sec)[note]

Manufacturer time
(sec)[note]

Notes


0-60 list / verified time / manufacturer time.

2.3 Ariel Atom V8 2010 2.3 2.3
2.5 Bugatti Veyron 16.4 Super Sport 2012 2.5[1]
2.6 Lamborghini Aventador 2012 2.6 2.9
2.7 Hennessey Venom GT 2012 2.5 2.7[2]
2.7 Nissan GT-R R35 2013 2.7 2.7[3]
2.7 Porsche 911 Turbo S 2011 2.7[4] 3.1[5]
2.8 SSC Ultimate Aero TT 2010 2.7
2.8 Lamborghini Murciélago LP 670–4 SuperVeloce 2009 2.8[6]
2.8 Rimac Concept One 2013 2.8[7]
2.9 Koenigsegg Agera R 2010 2.9[8]
2.9 Caterham 7 Superlight R500 2007 2.9[9]
2.9 Gumpert Apollo Sport 2007 2.9[10]
2.9 KTM X-Bow 2007 2.9
2.9 Koenigsegg CCXR Edition 2007 2.9[11]
3.0 Ferrari 458 Italia 2010 3.0[12] 3.4[13]
3.0 Noble M600 2010 3.0[14] 3.0
3.0 Pagani Huayra 2013 n/a 3.0[15]
3.1 Porsche 918 Spyder 2010 n/a 3.1[16]
3.1 Ferrari F12 Berlinetta 2012
3.1 Koenigsegg CCXR 2007 3.1 3.1
3.1 Rossion Q1 2009 3.2[17] 3.1[18]
3.1 Caterham 7 CSR 2007 3.1[19]
3.1 Ferrari Enzo 2004 3.14[20] 3.3[21]
3.2 McLaren MP4-12C 2011 3.2[22]
3.2 McLaren F1 1997 3.2 3.2
3.2 Gillet Vertigo 1994 n/a 3.2[23]
3.2 Koenigsegg CCX 2006 3.2[24] n/a
3.2 Noble M400 2007 3.2[25] n/a
3.3 Chevrolet Corvette C6 ZR1 2009 3.3[26] 3.4[27
3.3 Lamborghini Murciélago LP640 2007 3.3 3.3[28]
3.3 Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren 2005 3.3[29] 3.3
3.3 Noble M12 GTO-3R 2005 3.3[30] n/a
3.3 Noble M15 2006 n/a 3.5[31]
3.4 Dodge Viper SRT-10 2013 n/a 3.4[32]

Corvette Zr1 is 29th on the list and 13 viper is around 34th.

FASTEST CAR ON THE LIST IS A DOHC CAR! Pushrods are way down there except for the non reliable/ non trusted Hennessey car.

 

[V10lover]

You remind me of a religious fanatic. Your message in moderation is valid, and you have a right to your opinion. Some agree with you, but even they don't want to hear it any more. No one wants to hear about what you're preaching, but there you are. On the street corner, with the big sign. Preaching.

I am not preaching. The worst thing in a human being is not recognizing something that is better than the other just because don't want to see the truth and keep fighting against it.

 

[chorps]

Chorps,

Winkles didn't even believe that an aluminum flywheel would perform better than the stock one. He is a great guy but an OLD SCHOOL type of guy. I respect his opinion but I disagree with it.
They didn't try hard enough to MODIFY THE CAR and FRAME in ORDER TO FIT THE DOHC there. It is easy to say it is to wide, blah blah.
Did SRT really tried to fit different motors of different sizes there?
NO. Come on man. Don't believe everything you hear like a 8 year old does. That is just verbal, I didn't see anything in order to believe that.

I don't know what fairy tail you live in my friend. OHV does not even come close to DOHC. Just watch the video above on the MC laren ABOVE with an 8000RPM red line and tell me if a push rod motor can do that with valvetrain stability out of the box and PASSING EMISSIONS. Not a Sonnys engine, CHORPs,. a car that you go to the dealership and drop 100-200-300k will mostly be DOHC engine based and A LOT FASTER than any corvette or viper being sold now. What is a freaking F1 or INDY, Chorps? For Christ sake man, go do your homework and stop saying that I am bashing the engineers and all that. I am saying my opinion and that the car could be a lot better with that engine design and IT WOULD FIT WITH THE EXTRA EFFORT BEING PUT TO IT. It fit in a 1990 corvette. It fits in a C6 corvette. It would fit in a viper. Period.

The viper should have an optional for an automatic. If it needs to modify X or Z so be it. That is why those engineers are paid to do anyways. It would sell A LOT MORE VIPERS that is for sure.

I don't know why I bother feeding the trolls, I'm starting to think Venom V is right. We can get you a placard with DOHC painted on it so you can picket Conner.

You say with one side of your mouth that you have no proof, and then when proof is given, you say out of the other side of your mouth it is verbal, that YOU didn't see anything. Basically, you're calling them liars and that they didn't try hard enough.

Then you get all huffy and say you're not bashing the engineers?

The McLaren is nice at 8000 rpm, but why does the Viper need to rev to 8000 rpm? A huge advantage is given to the McLaren because it has the most sophisticated electronics, auto shifting transmission and it is also mid-engine, which gives it great advantage on launch control. It's quick, definitely.

It's also $230k. $100k more than the Viper GTS. Yet the McLaren isn't faster than the Viper in anything but a few contests.

If you have an unlimited budget or you have a displacement limit, you probably are chasing the highest horsepower per liter, but the Viper doesn't need to play that game. They can go with a more compact layout, bigger displacement and get a huge bang for the buck by using OHV. If you look at F1 or Indy rules, they've basically mandated a specific engine design and ruled out OHVs.

Your history is correct with the C4 ZR-1 DOHC. They then abandoned it and went back to the OHV. They did that because they felt that going slower was better than going faster, and they were tired of putting extra effort.

Out of the dozens of engineers working on the Corvette and Viper engine program, you know better than them. OK. You win. I'll text Sergio to tell Ralph that he needs to drop the OHV boat anchor and get to work fer realz now because one internet guy told the people here that Ralph is dreaming.

 

[V10lover]

Hey Chorps take a look of the fastest in the quarter mile now. Maybe that can open your eyes a little bit too.


Year

Vehicle

Quarter mile

Notes

2011 Bugatti Veyron Super Sport 9.7 sec @ 145 mph (233 km/h) [54]
2009 SSC Ultimate Aero TT 9.9 sec @ 144 mph (232 km/h) [note] [55]
2012 Lamborghini Aventador 10.4 sec @ 136 mph (219 km/h) [56]
2013 McLaren MP4-12C 10.5 sec @ 134.56 mph (216.55 km/h) [57]
2006 Saleen S7 Twin Turbo 10.5 sec @ 145 mph (233 km/h) [note] [58]
2009-2013 Chevrolet Corvette C6 ZR1 10.6 sec @ 133.0 mph (214.0 km/h) [59]
2006-2013 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 10.9 sec @ 129 mph (208 km/h) [60]
2011 Porsche 911 Turbo S 10.9 sec @ 127 mph (204 km/h) [4]
2009 Ascari A10 11.0 sec @ 138 mph (222 km/h) [61]
2013 Nissan GT-R 11.1 sec @ 123.3 mph (198.4 km/h) [62]
2005 Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren 11.1 sec @ 132 mph (212 km/h) [63]
2009 Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4 11.2 sec @ 130 mph (210 km/h) [64]
2005 Ford GT 11.2 sec @ 131.2 mph (211.1 km/h) [65]
2004 Porsche Carrera GT 11.3 sec @ 131 mph (211 km/h) [66]
2004 Lamborghini Murciélago LP640 11.3 sec @ 127 mph (204 km/h) [67]
2012 Ferrari 458 italia 11.3. sec @ 125.60 mph (202.13 km/h) [68]
2007 Noble M400 11.4 sec @ 119 mph (192 km/h) [69]
2008 Dodge Viper SRT-10 11.6 sec @ 126 mph (203 km/h) [70]
2010 Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG 11.6 sec @ 125 mph (201 km/h) [71]
2009 Rossion Q1 11.6 sec @ 121 mph (195 km/h) [17]
2013 Shelby Mustang 11.7 sec @ 125.7 mph (202.3 km/h) [72]
2010 Porsche Panamera Turbo 11.7 sec @ 119 mph (192 km/h) [73]
2000 Saleen S7 11.7 sec @ 126 mph (203 km/h) [74]
2012 Lexus LFA 11.8 sec @ 123 mph (198 km/h) [75]
2013 Audi S8 11.8 sec @ 118 mph (190 km/h) [76]
2005 Mercedes-Benz SL65 AMG 11.9 sec @ 123 mph (198 km/h) [77]

Note that the 3rd vehicle in the list is a Naturally aspirated DOHC engine. There is no way another N/A OHV will compete with that out of a dealership door without twin turbos.
You gotta wake up from your dream and stop thinking every Pushrod engine is like a 100K Sonnys engine that produce 1500hp and get .5 miles per gallon and would never pass emissions.
Welcome to the real world of cars MR old school.

 

[chorps]

Year
(model)

Verified time
(sec)[note]

Manufacturer time
(sec)[note]

Notes


0-60 list / verified time / manufacturer time.

2.3 Ariel Atom V8 2010 2.3 2.3
2.5 Bugatti Veyron 16.4 Super Sport 2012 2.5[1]
2.6 Lamborghini Aventador 2012 2.6 2.9
2.7 Hennessey Venom GT 2012 2.5 2.7[2]
2.7 Nissan GT-R R35 2013 2.7 2.7[3]
2.7 Porsche 911 Turbo S 2011 2.7[4] 3.1[5]
2.8 SSC Ultimate Aero TT 2010 2.7
2.8 Lamborghini Murciélago LP 670–4 SuperVeloce 2009 2.8[6]
2.8 Rimac Concept One 2013 2.8[7]
2.9 Koenigsegg Agera R 2010 2.9[8]
2.9 Caterham 7 Superlight R500 2007 2.9[9]
2.9 Gumpert Apollo Sport 2007 2.9[10]
2.9 KTM X-Bow 2007 2.9
2.9 Koenigsegg CCXR Edition 2007 2.9[11]
3.0 Ferrari 458 Italia 2010 3.0[12] 3.4[13]
3.0 Noble M600 2010 3.0[14] 3.0
3.0 Pagani Huayra 2013 n/a 3.0[15]
3.1 Porsche 918 Spyder 2010 n/a 3.1[16]
3.1 Ferrari F12 Berlinetta 2012
3.1 Koenigsegg CCXR 2007 3.1 3.1
3.1 Rossion Q1 2009 3.2[17] 3.1[18]
3.1 Caterham 7 CSR 2007 3.1[19]
3.1 Ferrari Enzo 2004 3.14[20] 3.3[21]
3.2 McLaren MP4-12C 2011 3.2[22]
3.2 McLaren F1 1997 3.2 3.2
3.2 Gillet Vertigo 1994 n/a 3.2[23]
3.2 Koenigsegg CCX 2006 3.2[24] n/a
3.2 Noble M400 2007 3.2[25] n/a
3.3 Chevrolet Corvette C6 ZR1 2009 3.3[26] 3.4[27
3.3 Lamborghini Murciélago LP640 2007 3.3 3.3[28]
3.3 Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren 2005 3.3[29] 3.3
3.3 Noble M12 GTO-3R 2005 3.3[30] n/a
3.3 Noble M15 2006 n/a 3.5[31]
3.4 Dodge Viper SRT-10 2013 n/a 3.4[32]

Corvette Zr1 is 29th on the list and 13 viper is around 34th.

FASTEST CAR ON THE LIST IS A DOHC CAR! Pushrods are way down there except for the non reliable/ non trusted Hennessey car.

Notice something about those cars? Every one of those top performing cars is stripped down (super light weight), mid engine, AWD, or a combination of the three.

Front engine, RWD cars are at a huge disadvantage unless they are built like drag racers. Never heard of the Rimac.
The Ferrari F12 and Mercedes SLR are $325k and $450k respectively and they rank on the lower end of the list with the other front engine RWD cars like the Viper and Corvette. Are you going to berate those engineers for not putting DOHC engine...oh wait, they did.

The best (unexpected) performer on that list is the Nissan GT-R. Freakishly fast for such a big and heavy car. I wouldn't chalk up its advantage to DOHC but it's super sophisticated AWD and transmission though.

 

[chorps]

Hey Chorps take a look of the fastest in the quarter mile now. Maybe that can open your eyes a little bit too.


Year

Vehicle

Quarter mile

Notes

2011 Bugatti Veyron Super Sport 9.7 sec @ 145 mph (233 km/h) [54]
2009 SSC Ultimate Aero TT 9.9 sec @ 144 mph (232 km/h) [note] [55]
2012 Lamborghini Aventador 10.4 sec @ 136 mph (219 km/h) [56]
2013 McLaren MP4-12C 10.5 sec @ 134.56 mph (216.55 km/h) [57]
2006 Saleen S7 Twin Turbo 10.5 sec @ 145 mph (233 km/h) [note] [58]
2009-2013 Chevrolet Corvette C6 ZR1 10.6 sec @ 133.0 mph (214.0 km/h) [59]
2006-2013 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 10.9 sec @ 129 mph (208 km/h) [60]
2011 Porsche 911 Turbo S 10.9 sec @ 127 mph (204 km/h) [4]
2009 Ascari A10 11.0 sec @ 138 mph (222 km/h) [61]
2013 Nissan GT-R 11.1 sec @ 123.3 mph (198.4 km/h) [62]
2005 Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren 11.1 sec @ 132 mph (212 km/h) [63]
2009 Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4 11.2 sec @ 130 mph (210 km/h) [64]
2005 Ford GT 11.2 sec @ 131.2 mph (211.1 km/h) [65]
2004 Porsche Carrera GT 11.3 sec @ 131 mph (211 km/h) [66]
2004 Lamborghini Murciélago LP640 11.3 sec @ 127 mph (204 km/h) [67]
2012 Ferrari 458 italia 11.3. sec @ 125.60 mph (202.13 km/h) [68]
2007 Noble M400 11.4 sec @ 119 mph (192 km/h) [69]
2008 Dodge Viper SRT-10 11.6 sec @ 126 mph (203 km/h) [70]
2010 Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG 11.6 sec @ 125 mph (201 km/h) [71]
2009 Rossion Q1 11.6 sec @ 121 mph (195 km/h) [17]
2013 Shelby Mustang 11.7 sec @ 125.7 mph (202.3 km/h) [72]
2010 Porsche Panamera Turbo 11.7 sec @ 119 mph (192 km/h) [73]
2000 Saleen S7 11.7 sec @ 126 mph (203 km/h) [74]
2012 Lexus LFA 11.8 sec @ 123 mph (198 km/h) [75]
2013 Audi S8 11.8 sec @ 118 mph (190 km/h) [76]
2005 Mercedes-Benz SL65 AMG 11.9 sec @ 123 mph (198 km/h) [77]

Note that the 3rd vehicle in the list is a Naturally aspirated DOHC engine. There is no way another N/A OHV will compete with that out of a dealership door without twin turbos.
You gotta wake up from your dream and stop thinking every Pushrod engine is like a 100K Sonnys engine that produce 1500hp and get .5 miles per gallon and would never pass emissions.
Welcome to the real world of cars MR old school.

The Lambo is very nice...for a mid engined AWD car that costs $400k. Really hard to see where your claim of DOHC superiority is clear cut when you cherry pick one vehicle out of that list when there's a slew that are slower and faster than the others and difference in transmissions/drive wheels and engine placement have a lot to do with the performance as well, let alone the price.

Your magic DOHC pixie dust must be clouding your judgement...

 

[V10lover]

I don't know why I bother feeding the trolls, I'm starting to think Venom V is right. We can get you a placard with DOHC painted on it so you can picket Conner.

You say with one side of your mouth that you have no proof, and then when proof is given, you say out of the other side of your mouth it is verbal, that YOU didn't see anything. Basically, you're calling them liars and that they didn't try hard enough.

Then you get all huffy and say you're not bashing the engineers?

The McLaren is nice at 8000 rpm, but why does the Viper need to rev to 8000 rpm? A huge advantage is given to the McLaren because it has the most sophisticated electronics, auto shifting transmission and it is also mid-engine, which gives it great advantage on launch control. It's quick, definitely.

It's also $230k. $100k more than the Viper GTS. Yet the McLaren isn't faster than the Viper in anything but a few contests.

If you have an unlimited budget or you have a displacement limit, you probably are chasing the highest horsepower per liter, but the Viper doesn't need to play that game. They can go with a more compact layout, bigger displacement and get a huge bang for the buck by using OHV. If you look at F1 or Indy rules, they've basically mandated a specific engine design and ruled out OHVs.

Your history is correct with the C4 ZR-1 DOHC. They then abandoned it and went back to the OHV. They did that because they felt that going slower was better than going faster, and they were tired of putting extra effort.

Out of the dozens of engineers working on the Corvette and Viper engine program, you know better than them. OK. You win. I'll text Sergio to tell Ralph that he needs to drop the OHV boat anchor and get to work fer realz now because one internet guy told the people here that Ralph is dreaming.

Yeah, your right I don't know what I gain arguing with a guy that has ABSOLUTELY no racing background like you. My verbal comes from real life experience and the races I've been participating since I was 18 years old. I don't seat behind a desktop in the middle of nowhere where 10 months of the year is freezing cold and not even streetable to drive a car out. My racing background probably way more extensive than yours. and I don't race maybe 2 months of the year like you that is close to the north pole. I RACE EVERY WEKEEND in the summer and I am involved with the field so my automotive culture is based in facts of RACING not seating behind a laptop and watching snow out of my window.

Again, I am not calling anybody liars, just saying that the EFFORT was not put in order to accomplish that. I don't care what you think really as you don't race or don't know anything about what your saying. you just spit things out that were told you by others like a little kid. It gets old man. like the obsolete engine that you so much love.

You don't need to come with excuses about the mc-laren because it is a heck of car and every body knows it even YOU DO.

It is getting old man, all your posts is the same B.S. Go feed your fire place with a little more wood...

 

[V10lover]

Notice something about those cars? Every one of those top performing cars is stripped down (super light weight), mid engine, AWD, or a combination of the three.

Front engine, RWD cars are at a huge disadvantage unless they are built like drag racers. Never heard of the Rimac.
The Ferrari F12 and Mercedes SLR are $325k and $450k respectively and they rank on the lower end of the list with the other front engine RWD cars like the Viper and Corvette. Are you going to berate those engineers for not putting DOHC engine...oh wait, they did.

The best (unexpected) performer on that list is the Nissan GT-R. Freakishly fast for such a big and heavy car. I wouldn't chalk up its advantage to DOHC but it's super sophisticated AWD and transmission though.

I am not discussing prices.

I am discussing ENGINES... On the top end the DOHCs would win even bigger as they shine in high rpms. Don't need to be a genious to know that, Chorps.

BTW, Buggati is as heavy as an airplane so you know

Gosh, why do I keep feeding the trolls.....

 

[V10lover]

The Lambo is very nice...for a mid engined AWD car that costs $400k. Really hard to see where your claim of DOHC superiority is clear cut when you cherry pick one vehicle out of that list when there's a slew that are slower and faster than the others and difference in transmissions/drive wheels and engine placement have a lot to do with the performance as well, let alone the price.

Your magic DOHC pixie dust must be clouding your judgement...

Stop coming with excuses, CHORPS. your annoying like the snow that falls close to you. What is the engine on the FIRST CAR ON THE LIST? I don't know what a heck your smoking over there but it is strong stuff for sure. JUst read the freaking number one on the list man.

 

[chorps]

Yeah, your right I don't know what I gain arguing with a guy that has ABSOLUTELY no racing background like you. My verbal comes from real life experience and the races I've been participating since I was 18 years old. I don't seat behind a desktop in the middle of nowhere where 10 months of the year is freezing cold and not even streetable to drive a car out. My racing background probably way more extensive than yours. and I don't race maybe 2 months of the year like you that is close to the north pole. I RACE EVERY WEKEEND in the summer and I am involved with the field so my automotive culture is based in facts of RACING not seating behind a laptop and watching snow out of my window.

Again, I am not calling anybody liars, just saying that the EFFORT was not put in order to accomplish that. I don't care what you think really as you don't race or don't know anything about what your saying. you just spit things out that were told you by others like a little kid. It gets old man. like the obsolete engine that you so much love.

You don't need to come with excuses about the mc-laren because it is a heck of car and every body knows it even YOU DO.

It is getting old man, all your posts is the same B.S. Go feed your fire place with a little more wood...

Read your own posts. You did call them liars. Stop acting like you're 12. There's nothing wrong with those other cars and brands, just that they have a lot more leeway in building their engines if they are going to charge multiples of what the Viper is going for. That part is simple economics.

Stop whinging about like a 12 year old saying my dad can beat up your dad and maybe people will treat you like an adult. Until then you can sit at the children's table.

Are you going to whip it out now to see if yours is bigger? Your racing background, what does that matter to anyone here? All you do is come here and p*ss and moan about how obsolete your poor Viper is and bash the people behind the product for not working hard enough. I'm not going to bother with whipping my epeen out but I *know* some of the engineers and managers at Chrysler and SRT and you are definitely out of your league.

You can say you're blah blah blah in love with the V10 and own a Viper, just pony up and join the VCA, fer cryin out loud. That would show some support for this car and brand instead of putting it down all the time.

 

[ACRucrazy]

Well this thread is a wash. IBTL.

 

[VENOM V]

duplicate post

 

[VENOM V]

I am not preaching. The worst thing in a human being is not recognizing something that is better than the other just because don't want to see the truth and keep fighting against it.

Well, you seem to be fixated on a few of the advantages of DOHC. A design engineer looks at all of the pros and cons, and looking at the big picture, chooses the best for the application. You are ignoring a few of the big advantages for the pushrod V10 in a Viper. Chorps did an excellent job pointing those out. To me, the obvious ones are that a pushrod V10 has a lower CG, has a higher HP to weight ratio, and packages smaller. Not as efficient as a DOHC, true. But by those other, more important measures, the venerable Viper V10 wins. Not to mention the fact that it would be extremely difficult to fit in our beloved Viper, without a big bulge in the hood. Well, it's hard enough to see going down the corkscrew at Laguna Seca with the hood where it is, forget about visibility if you raise it up. But you've heard all of this already, you just don't want to see the truth and keep fighting against it.

 

[SnakeBitten]

The Viper doesn't "need" DOHC IMHO to hang with these cars like MP4, GTR etc. The ZR1 seems to be as fast as they are with a manual and ohv config albeit with boost. I think if SRT wants to make the Viper competitive in all performance catagories while keeping the current config then they WILL have to add a properly working LC and a suspension that can do both handling for the twisties and squatting for optimal straight line acceleration a la ZR1, MP4. Or keep it all the way old school as it is now but lose 300-400lbs all around.

Anyway I just don't see anything wrong with the V10 per se. Its refreshing to see an ohv's still being relavant amid a sea of high tech DOHC's etc. It really adds to the Vipers uniqueness and mystique imho. Actually in some ways its really a high tech OHV. It makes competitive power and is far from tapped out at 640hp. Its the other bits that need some attention like a competitive LC, DCT, losing weight, adding boost etc. Adding these cutting edge high tech features while retaining that ubiquitous old school V10 would be very cool, giving the Viper an even more retro-futuristic feel almost steampunk-ish.

 

[Steve M]

Year
(model)

Verified time
(sec)[note]

Manufacturer time
(sec)[note]

Notes


0-60 list / verified time / manufacturer time.

2.3 Ariel Atom V8 2010 2.3 2.3
2.5 Bugatti Veyron 16.4 Super Sport 2012 2.5[1]
2.6 Lamborghini Aventador 2012 2.6 2.9
2.7 Hennessey Venom GT 2012 2.5 2.7[2]
2.7 Nissan GT-R R35 2013 2.7 2.7[3]
2.7 Porsche 911 Turbo S 2011 2.7[4] 3.1[5]
2.8 SSC Ultimate Aero TT 2010 2.7
2.8 Lamborghini Murciélago LP 670–4 SuperVeloce 2009 2.8[6]
2.8 Rimac Concept One 2013 2.8[7]
2.9 Koenigsegg Agera R 2010 2.9[8]
2.9 Caterham 7 Superlight R500 2007 2.9[9]
2.9 Gumpert Apollo Sport 2007 2.9[10]
2.9 KTM X-Bow 2007 2.9
2.9 Koenigsegg CCXR Edition 2007 2.9[11]
3.0 Ferrari 458 Italia 2010 3.0[12] 3.4[13]
3.0 Noble M600 2010 3.0[14] 3.0
3.0 Pagani Huayra 2013 n/a 3.0[15]
3.1 Porsche 918 Spyder 2010 n/a 3.1[16]
3.1 Ferrari F12 Berlinetta 2012
3.1 Koenigsegg CCXR 2007 3.1 3.1
3.1 Rossion Q1 2009 3.2[17] 3.1[18]
3.1 Caterham 7 CSR 2007 3.1[19]
3.1 Ferrari Enzo 2004 3.14[20] 3.3[21]
3.2 McLaren MP4-12C 2011 3.2[22]
3.2 McLaren F1 1997 3.2 3.2
3.2 Gillet Vertigo 1994 n/a 3.2[23]
3.2 Koenigsegg CCX 2006 3.2[24] n/a
3.2 Noble M400 2007 3.2[25] n/a
3.3 Chevrolet Corvette C6 ZR1 2009 3.3[26] 3.4[27
3.3 Lamborghini Murciélago LP640 2007 3.3 3.3[28]
3.3 Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren 2005 3.3[29] 3.3
3.3 Noble M12 GTO-3R 2005 3.3[30] n/a
3.3 Noble M15 2006 n/a 3.5[31]
3.4 Dodge Viper SRT-10 2013 n/a 3.4[32]

Corvette Zr1 is 29th on the list and 13 viper is around 34th.

FASTEST CAR ON THE LIST IS A DOHC CAR! Pushrods are way down there except for the non reliable/ non trusted Hennessey car.

So this is what you bring to the table to defend wanting a DOHC engine in a Viper? 0-60 times? You know, the times that are the most affected by traction, favoring AWD cars? And instead of attributing the fastest times to great traction, you instead mostly attribute it to the fact that they had a DOHC engine? Well done sir, well done. Same goes for quarter mile times...drag racing is primarily about traction, not a DOHC engine.

 

[chorps]

You must be registered for see images

 

[Torquemonster]

HAhaha, brilliant.

I can't believe this argument keeps alive. How about comparing performance for a price? I imagine a $350k Viper will do pretty well against anything else in that price. For $350k it could be twin turbo, pass emissions, hot lap on low boost, run 8's on kill and drag tires, and get 30mpg on the drive home. OHV packs more into less space for less weight and sits lower... so what if its not as high tech? It's 8.4L of muscle and adding 48V and quad cams would certainly add a lot of top end while retaining a decent curve under that, but at immense cost. If bolts on are not enough at 8.4L a power adder is more than more valves and cams can ever match.

 

[HOLLYWOOD1]

Notice something about those cars? Every one of those top performing cars is stripped down (super light weight), mid engine, AWD, or a combination of the three.

Front engine, RWD cars are at a huge disadvantage unless they are built like drag racers. Never heard of the Rimac.
The Ferrari F12 and Mercedes SLR are $325k and $450k respectively and they rank on the lower end of the list with the other front engine RWD cars like the Viper and Corvette. Are you going to berate those engineers for not putting DOHC engine...oh wait, they did.

The best (unexpected) performer on that list is the Nissan GT-R. Freakishly fast for such a big and heavy car. I wouldn't chalk up its advantage to DOHC but it's super sophisticated AWD and transmission though.

Chorps, those are some incredibly quick times. Great point about the GTR.....very impressive and a extremely sophisticated ride. I love all those stats. Do you know why the GTR has a fast quarter mile time of 11.1 yet the speed isn't there...is that because of the weight? i know that they are shedding a few pounds on the 2014 but what I got out of this is the Vettes and GTR's hold their own real well against pretty much everything. Good on them. For the guys that say the 0-60 and quarter mile time are old school I would say get a grip as these things are still on the top of the comparison list. I guess all they are interested in is G's around a skidpad....big deal these cars all pull high G's....I say to the testers keep these speed measurements up as G's are not the end all and be all. It a combo of everything.

 

[FikseGTS]

road course times are even harder to compare, the McLaren would easily hang with the Viper with equivalent tires.... tires, conditions and driver capabilities are HUGE factors on a road course....

 

[FikseGTS]

negative, 3 seconds is not long enough for those tires..... we tried shorter burnouts earlier in the day as well as no burnout, and the car wouldn't hook.... there is NO way your walking out the GEN V (even slipping the clutch) and running anywhere near the 10's, it needs another 100 pounds of mid-range torque to do that....

10.96?? don't bother with the slips, that is not even in the same universe as mid 10's as you said....

thanks for the GT-R lesson, I ran 11.0 @ 132.7 in my Viper ACR on stock tires, and 10.6 @ 132 MPH in my Ford GT on regular street tires, no drag radials... also ran 10.5 in my GT-R with just a tune....

I did. But that is not the right way to do a burnout to begin with. Not on the water. Just watch NHRA or any professional type of drag racing and see if they do a burnout on the water. And yes, 3 seconds is all you need maybe a little more if you want. You don't need to roast the tires to dead either because is not going to do any better considering the track was prepped ok. Launching the car at 5500rpm does not mean bananas. Some cars can lunch better if you walk the clutch rather than just dump it depending on track prep, gear ratio, tire etc.. and etc.. It is not as simple as driving a GTR as the driver in the viper SHIFTS his own gears too.

I don't have the time slips as I threw them out since they were almost 2 years old. It went 10.96@127 with belanger headers (with cats) corsa exhaust, K&N replacement filter and 18 x 10s 6spokes with hoosiers drag radials in the rear everything else was stock. There is more in there probably a 10.7 or so as I will find out this year.

 

[Jack B]

Steve M:

To go one step there are some sub 2500 lb cars in there., there also are a bunch of plus $250,000 cars.

I said this before, but, my guess is that V10Lover has never:

A. Driven to a sub 3 sec 60' time.
B. Gone over 130 mph in the quarter.
C. Driven at over 150 mph.
D. Won any form of sanctioned race event.
E. Built and tuned a car for racing.
F. Possibly has never raced a car.
G. Owned a car capable of A, B and C.

My guess he has not accomplished any one of the above.

V10Lover:
prove me wrong, give us your credentials or are you just the keyboard racer that everyone thinks you are.

So this is what you bring to the table to defend wanting a DOHC engine in a Viper? 0-60 times? You know, the times that are the most affected by traction, favoring AWD cars? And instead of attributing the fastest times to great traction, you instead mostly attribute it to the fact that they had a DOHC engine? Well done sir, well done. Same goes for quarter mile times...drag racing is primarily about traction, not a DOHC engine.

 

[Lawrenzo]

What was time without using the launch control?

 

[Torquemonster]

negative, 3 seconds is not long enough for those tires..... we tried shorter burnouts earlier in the day as well as no burnout, and the car wouldn't hook.... there is NO way your walking out the GEN V (even slipping the clutch) and running anywhere near the 10's, it needs another 100 pounds of mid-range torque to do that....

10.96?? don't bother with the slips, that is not even in the same universe as mid 10's as you said....

thanks for the GT-R lesson, I ran 11.0 @ 132.7 in my Viper ACR on stock tires, and 10.6 @ 132 MPH in my Ford GT on regular street tires, no drag radials... also ran 10.5 in my GT-R with just a tune....

With those timeslips on stock tires I find it hilarious someone tried to give you driving advice. When you explained how you did that, I'd take notes.