No matter who happens to wind up with the car (if anyone at all )very few will pay over 100 grand for a front engine American made car with the interior trimmings of current Viper car (not exotic enough )Take the Ford GT at 160 grand for example(mid engine ,alum frame .dry sump ect )
$180,000 Gen 5 Viper
- Thread starter 2000_Black_RT10
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AFL in NJ
Enthusiast
What if Dodge didn't sell and simply kept the '08/09 Viper basically the same (save for minor cosmetic alterations that don't affect emissions and crash testing) for the next 5 years until the automotive landscape has improved? Even though the Viper might not be the "king of the hill" staying unchanged for such a long time at least the development costs wouldn't make it a target by Cerberus execs.....and when things are better, SRT would engineer a one-up that would again put the Dodge on top again.
I'd rather see that scenario than seeing any change in ownership/direction.
Regards,
Aaron
I'd rather see that scenario than seeing any change in ownership/direction.
Regards,
Aaron
MoparMan
Enthusiast
I like you rplan, but I beleive the snag lies in the emissions requirements for 2012 (or maybe 2011, not sure). The current V-10 does not meet these requirements and I'm guessing Cerberus/Chrysler does not want to put the effort into either getting the current engine to pass the new standards or coming up with an engine that does (could mean the end of the V-10 in the Viper?). Also, I think there are new front end impact requirement changes coming as well that will require some changes to the car.
I think we better just follow Y2K. He seems to know more of the insides. The VCA is a powerful organization. IMO, its kind of like the NRA.
And last, they said that the Viper was going to be discontinued in back in 2002.
And last, they said that the Viper was going to be discontinued in back in 2002.
Tom F&L GoR
Enthusiast
Guys, there is a reason that Ferrari is owned by Fiat; that Proton owns Lotus; that Corvette is part of GM; that Lamborghini is owned by Audi, which is owned by VW, whose shares are being acquired by Porsche; that Maserati is part of Alfa Romeo, which is owned by Fiat; that Jaguar was owned by Ford and now Tata.... ummm should I go on?
The Viper began as Dodge's kit car and had what enthusiasts wanted and we forgave them for not finishing it (like the Gen 1 "roof".) But if Viper is not economical for Cerebus to build, then the above real-world examples show a smaller stand-alone manufacturer isn't going to do any better.
Look at what it cost Stellican Ltd to resurrect the Indian Motorcycle (attempt #3 or #4, I think) and how long it took to get Chris Craft going again. The only advantage the Viper purchase has is that all the manufacturing equipment is in one place - but they still have to pay for it.
It is a little out of my league to be a marketer, but I really think this issue is the weakest link to a potential purchase. Is the new owner going to say "yes, the same engine in the Dodge Ram is in the new Chery Viper!" "You bet, the racing heritage of our new Avtovaz Viper descends from Daimler Benz!" "We put an engine in the new Kia Viper that has more torque than all our other model's lug nuts combined!"
I want to be wrong, but I think the only real hope is to find a company that is already a companion. Ilmor uses the V10 in their racing boats, so maybe somebody like them. Or think bigger and spin off Jeep and Viper together so they can share the steering column again.
One reason I've only ever owned a Dodge is that I liked the underdog position and how Dodge always had a potent 300C, Daytona, hemi, Cuda, Viper. But there's small and then there's too small.
I hope I'm wrong.
The Viper began as Dodge's kit car and had what enthusiasts wanted and we forgave them for not finishing it (like the Gen 1 "roof".) But if Viper is not economical for Cerebus to build, then the above real-world examples show a smaller stand-alone manufacturer isn't going to do any better.
Look at what it cost Stellican Ltd to resurrect the Indian Motorcycle (attempt #3 or #4, I think) and how long it took to get Chris Craft going again. The only advantage the Viper purchase has is that all the manufacturing equipment is in one place - but they still have to pay for it.
It is a little out of my league to be a marketer, but I really think this issue is the weakest link to a potential purchase. Is the new owner going to say "yes, the same engine in the Dodge Ram is in the new Chery Viper!" "You bet, the racing heritage of our new Avtovaz Viper descends from Daimler Benz!" "We put an engine in the new Kia Viper that has more torque than all our other model's lug nuts combined!"
I want to be wrong, but I think the only real hope is to find a company that is already a companion. Ilmor uses the V10 in their racing boats, so maybe somebody like them. Or think bigger and spin off Jeep and Viper together so they can share the steering column again.
One reason I've only ever owned a Dodge is that I liked the underdog position and how Dodge always had a potent 300C, Daytona, hemi, Cuda, Viper. But there's small and then there's too small.
I hope I'm wrong.
I believe every car sold in this country in 2012 must have a form of stability control as well.Some of your above reasons killed the Ford GT IN 06 (rear end crash test )too limited production for Ford to spend all that redesign money.
DEKE01
Viper Owner
>>2) Chrysler is closing CAAP per their recent agreement with the UAW. If they own CAAP (rather than lease it) then a new owner would either have to buy it or lease it back from Chrysler. Either way, it represents an increased cost over the current cost basis.<<
I haven't read the UAW contract, but I think all it says is that Chrysler has the right to shut down CAAP - along with many other plants. And once again, no one knows what the terms would be in a buy or lease of CAAP so we don't know what a buyer's costs would be. If you see what a bath Ford took on Jag and Rover, you can believe Chrysler might sell off CAAP at a loss just to be rid of the burden of carrying the facility.
>>3) Certainly, employee overhead costs will be lower for Chrysler than a smaller company. Dividing costs of employee burden over larger numbers typically helps mitigate the impact of these costs. A smaller company will have to look alot harder to spread these costs out.<<
You are assuming it takes just as many people to make a decision at a small company as it does a large one. That usually is not the case in my expereince.
>>but certainly, $110k to $120k for a Gen V will not be out of the question.<<
I can believe that and think it would still be a good deal based on N-ring performance.
>>6) You sound like you pretty much agree that Cerberus has decided to axe the Viper line and a sale of said line is icing on the cake for them.<<
No, that's not what I said. I don't know what they are going to do other than explore their options and I don't understand why so many people want to believe in a gloom and doom end.
I haven't read the UAW contract, but I think all it says is that Chrysler has the right to shut down CAAP - along with many other plants. And once again, no one knows what the terms would be in a buy or lease of CAAP so we don't know what a buyer's costs would be. If you see what a bath Ford took on Jag and Rover, you can believe Chrysler might sell off CAAP at a loss just to be rid of the burden of carrying the facility.
>>3) Certainly, employee overhead costs will be lower for Chrysler than a smaller company. Dividing costs of employee burden over larger numbers typically helps mitigate the impact of these costs. A smaller company will have to look alot harder to spread these costs out.<<
You are assuming it takes just as many people to make a decision at a small company as it does a large one. That usually is not the case in my expereince.
>>but certainly, $110k to $120k for a Gen V will not be out of the question.<<
I can believe that and think it would still be a good deal based on N-ring performance.
>>6) You sound like you pretty much agree that Cerberus has decided to axe the Viper line and a sale of said line is icing on the cake for them.<<
No, that's not what I said. I don't know what they are going to do other than explore their options and I don't understand why so many people want to believe in a gloom and doom end.
Bugeater
Enthusiast
Is there a discussion as to the possible candidates? Saleen mentioned, but what about McLaren or Panoz or ??? These were a couple thrown around @ VOI...
slaughterj
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I believe I heard at VOI 10 (at CAAP?) that the CAAP building is leased and the lease expires in the next year or so (whatever fits with finishing the 2009 cars).
DEKE01
Viper Owner
If that's true, I'm willing to bet that the going rate will be less than it was when Viper moved in.
slaughterj
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That was my thinking as well. There can't be too many parties interested in leasing that building, so the owner probably would take most anything. Of course, who knows, maybe the owner already has new plans for it.
Y2K10 SRT#39
Enthusiast
3 points-
I liked the Panoz comment. They have quit building one model, but they have the facility, know how, and infastructure.
While in the tech session, we heard there is an aluminum chassis ready to go- all proven...how much weight would that save? I figure 200 pounds.
Lastly- As I remember...PVO converted to SRT as a new PROFIT CENTER....well- now they have LOTS of SRT vehicles being sold....so I don't see this as a cost (money loosing) issue. The company was approached..more than once...is what I heard. Any money making operation should listen if the price is right. It would be a very complicated deal...parts, tooling, completed designs, software, the list goes on...
Just my two cents worth...
PBR
I liked the Panoz comment. They have quit building one model, but they have the facility, know how, and infastructure.
While in the tech session, we heard there is an aluminum chassis ready to go- all proven...how much weight would that save? I figure 200 pounds.
Lastly- As I remember...PVO converted to SRT as a new PROFIT CENTER....well- now they have LOTS of SRT vehicles being sold....so I don't see this as a cost (money loosing) issue. The company was approached..more than once...is what I heard. Any money making operation should listen if the price is right. It would be a very complicated deal...parts, tooling, completed designs, software, the list goes on...
Just my two cents worth...
PBR
