2:34 lap around Road America in a 06 First Edition

[Magnus_]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0l7GX8zu9E[/media]

One thing I noticed, and you can see it in the vid, is that under heavy load the oil pressure drops. I'm running 5w40 mobile 1 and may switch to a different weight. I am running the comp coupe oil pan. I do not know/recall though if it has a swinging pickup arm.
Here is the same run with it zoomed on the oil pressure gauge. Its a little fuzzy but you can see which way the arm is generally pointing.
YouTube - oil pressure closeup

When the pics come in I'll add them to this thread.

 

[Austin]

That track doesnt seem to lend to many shifts. At times it almost seemed as if you were driving an automatic. Great video nonetheless. What kind of exhaust do you have? Your SRT sounds great.

 

[Magnus_]

Its the full Bellanger setup without cats.

 

[okloneranger]

Enjoyed seeing that video, great sound, looked like fun, looking forward to seeing more.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0l7GX8zu9E[/media]

One thing I noticed, and you can see it in the vid, is that under heavy load the oil pressure drops. I'm running 5w40 mobile 1 and may switch to a different weight.

When the pics come in I'll add them to this thread.

I couldn't make out the gauge, but under heavy engine load, the oil viscosity doesn't come into play for oil pressure changes happening quick enough to see during a lap.

The oil may get hot, thin, and the average pressure could drop.
The high RPM could be sucking the pan dry (oil doesn't drain back from head or valley fast enough.)
The side loads could be sloshing oil from the pickup location.
The braking could be sloshing the oil forward.

If the hydrodynamic bearings (crank and rods) were achieving thinner oil films due to high loads, this would not show up as lower pressure. Hopefully some other track rats can help here, but if you see the pressure drop as you travel at WOT down a straightaway, a viscosity change shouldn't help that.

Think of pressure as the backpressure. If the gauge sender is in the typical location (beyond the outlet of the pump, somewhere before it spreads throughout the engine) then the gauge is measuring the resistance of the oil to being forced into the oil passages. A higher viscosity oil will be thicker and harder to feed into those small tubular passages. It will record a higher pressure, but does not guarantee any better volume flow. Unless it's needed to keep the bearing surfaces separated, I don't think it will help your pressure drop.

I'm thinking Mr. Pemberton can help here?

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Heh, listen to Tom, he knows 20 times more than any of us do.

I do know that with Gen IIIs we generally recommend a Comp Coupe oil pan, as we have found the high gs generated at many tracks will cause it to slosh around ( technical term ). Of course Tom already brought this up and that is why we all humbly bow down to his knowledge------------he calls himself the Fuel and Oil Geek, but we actually revere him as the Fuel and Oil Guru.

Give me or Mark J. a call , as the time you ran is very respectable and you even had to pass slower cars.

Bill P
1-800-889-1893

 

[JonB]

That's FUEL & OILS GEEK of the REALM : F&L GoR

Id be switching to 15-50 and adding that swing-arm-pickup. Nice,Smoothe lap!

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Well in this case he is Fuel and Oil Guru of Road America. Heh, the initials work, ha.

 

[Magnus_]

Thanks for the tips everyone.

I really appreciate the PM Bill P.

I'm sorry I forgot to mention that I do have the pan with the swing arm.

While I'm quite capable with tearing apart engines and working on the car, I think I'll take the car to a viper tech locally to have them inspect the oil pickup. Better safe than sorry.

I'll also switch oil Jon as you suggest.

I'm hoping to get back on Road America in the next few weeks. It really feels like the viper was made for this track.

 

[GR8_ASP]

I concur with the comment that you cannot see the gauges. That said many have experienced oil pressure drops while in long hard turns. For me I had to slow in a particularly long left turn (double apex) where I could watch the oil pressure drop. Clearly due to the oil pickup becoming uncovered due to oil moving away under the cornering forces. If this happens under load you will waste the bearings starting with #3 rod. Pretty much guaranteed.

The solutions are twofold. If you only track once in a blue moon overfilling by 1 qt can reduce the tendency. Worked for me for a few years until I improved the tires and then it was far short. The second, and much preferable if you track once or more a year, is the comp coupe or modified comp coupe/Gen IV pan and pick-up. I have the later on mine and have never experienced a low pressure reading at any time.

Just read your last note indicating you have a swing arm pick-up pan. My guess is you have a standard comp coupe pan. There are people here that can do a modification to it to allow full swing motion. I cannot recall but I think it has a shortcoming in one direction while under braking or acceleration that was fixed with the modification.

 

[Magnus_]

I know I have the comp coupe pan. What pickup I have though I'm not entirely sure.

I've added a vid to the first reply that is a closeup of the oil pressure gauge.

 

[Nader]

I think the problem with the comp coupe pan is it only swings in one direction. Dan @ Viper Specialty is the man to talk to. He designed a system for 03-06 incorporating the improvements they made to the 08 plus engine. Do a search. There are some threads about it.

I concur with the comment that you cannot see the gauges. That said many have experienced oil pressure drops while in long hard turns. For me I had to slow in a particularly long left turn (double apex) where I could watch the oil pressure drop. Clearly due to the oil pickup becoming uncovered due to oil moving away under the cornering forces. If this happens under load you will waste the bearings starting with #3 rod. Pretty much guaranteed.

The solutions are twofold. If you only track once in a blue moon overfilling by 1 qt can reduce the tendency. Worked for me for a few years until I improved the tires and then it was far short. The second, and much preferable if you track once or more a year, is the comp coupe or modified comp coupe/Gen IV pan and pick-up. I have the later on mine and have never experienced a low pressure reading at any time.

Just read your last note indicating you have a swing arm pick-up pan. My guess is you have a standard comp coupe pan. There are people here that can do a modification to it to allow full swing motion. I cannot recall but I think it has a shortcoming in one direction while under braking or acceleration that was fixed with the modification.

 

[TAILWAG]

I could not see the gauge very well...but, what was your pressure dropping down to? I fried my motor on my current Z06 due to oil starvation. On high G sustained corners (1.0+G@ 4+ seconds), oil pressure drops from 45-55 lbs (normal) down to about 18-25 lbs. The dry sump on the car is less than adequate, hence in 09' they moved to a larger one.

The reason why I mention this is so that you can keep track of your oil pressure...don't let it drop too much as it could have potentially very damaging results. Fortunately GM covered my $ 20,000 LS7 under warranty.

Is your car still under warranty?

 

[Magnus_]

I'm very well aware of how important oil pressure is. I used to drag race a 9 sec ls1 f-*** car that did a wheel stand for an 1/8th mile, starved for oil, and threw a rod at 115mph. Hence, my serious concern, and confusion as to what exactly is the culprit.

The oil pressure seems to only drop at WOT under heavy load.

The lowest it drops seems to be 30psi coming out of the carousel on the straight before the kink.

It seems to drop though as I start any straight under WOT.

I may just pull the oil pan this week and check things out.

As far as the warranty, I'm honestly not sure. I've always just worked on my own cars regardless as the fix is usually less time consuming than waiting for the dealer.

With all this help, I'll be throwing the VCA some funds this week.

 

[Venomiss]

I'm very well aware of how important oil pressure is. I used to drag race a 9 sec ls1 f-*** car that did a wheel stand for an 1/8th mile, starved for oil, and threw a rod at 115mph. Hence, my serious concern, and confusion as to what exactly is the culprit.

The oil pressure seems to only drop at WOT under heavy load.

The lowest it drops seems to be 30psi coming out of the carousel on the straight before the kink.

It seems to drop though as I start any straight under WOT.

I may just pull the oil pan this week and check things out.

As far as the warranty, I'm honestly not sure. I've always just worked on my own cars regardless as the fix is usually less time consuming than waiting for the dealer.

With all this help, I'll be throwing the VCA some funds this week.

Welcome and be sure and get your membership number to one of the moderators so you can get upgraded when you join.

 

[Warfang]

All this talk about fancy nannies and trannies... what the Viper REALLY needs is an adequate dry sump system. Interesting to read about the older Z06 problems with dry sump.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

It really feels like the viper was made for this track.

It certainly is.

 

[Magnus_]

Small update on the oil pressure dropping at WOT under heavy load.

The car was low a couple of quarts, so I filled it up, but it didn't make much difference.

What I'm seeing is if I take the car in 3rd gear from 3k-6k RPM, I'll see the oil pressure drop ~15 psi or so. I may start off at 70psi at 3K rpm but by the time I get to 6K RPM it will be at 55.

If I just rev the car in neutral, or cruise at those same speeds at like 6K RPM, the oil pressure is normal.

The only variable I can tell are the throttle position/airflow, and g-forces from acceleration. Other than that, I'm out of ideas.