2000 GTS with RSI 510 motor. Bucking??

Captain50

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A friend of mine has a 2000 gts with the rsi motor that is hard to drive because it bucks up to about 2000 rpm.He is willing to give up h.p. to make it run right.Has any one run into this.We want to fix it ourselves but are not sure where to start--cam & throttle bodys? Does any one have a used cam and a set of stock t/bodys for sale? Trade? Any help would be great--- Thanks:drive:
 

Jerry Scott[CO]

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This can usually be cured by lagging the opening of the throttle bodies. There should be a write-up somewhere on this, but it is usually due to the throttle bodies opening at the same time.
 

ViperTony

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I'd call Dan at ViperSpecialty and talk with him about the symptoms/problems. Between Dan's tuning expertise, data logging and SCT tuning skills I'm certain he can help you out.
 

Joseph Dell

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A friend of mine has a 2000 gts with the rsi motor that is hard to drive because it bucks up to about 2000 rpm.He is willing to give up h.p. to make it run right.Has any one run into this.We want to fix it ourselves but are not sure where to start--cam & throttle bodys? Does any one have a used cam and a set of stock t/bodys for sale? Trade? Any help would be great--- Thanks:drive:

Replace the aluminum flywheel with a stock one and it will buck less!
 

Vic

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Funny- Mine bucks too. Striker heads + cam, alum flywheel, stock (but reflashed) PCM. Its pretty jumpy below 2000 rpm also. I just figured I had to live with it because of the big cam. Now there's hope! :)
 

thaimonkee

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What do you mean by bucking? I have a 510 also on AEM and have had no issues(knock on wood) just get an SCT or AEM as mentioned before and get it tuned properly
 

Russ M

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Almost everything can be tuned out to a point. I have seen some crazy cam cars purr like a kitten with an AEM/a few parts/and a person that knows how to put them all together tuning wise.

You can get your SCT's, Vec's, etc... But remember these unit still work in the confines of the factory ECU. They can alter a factory signal by a certain amount, but thats it. If your mods are not too over the top the band aid fixes will work. And taking parts off just because your factory ECU cant deal with them is silly.
 

vprtech

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Hi, this is Chris from DC Performance, I'm responsible for the calibration work here, and thought I would chime in. Cammed Vipers tend to buck in the lower rev range to varing degrees, with the amount of bucking depending on the parts combination, compression ratio, O2 senor location, header type, and how it was tuned. If a car is running closed loop with the factory ecu, I have been able to, in most situations, get most of the bucking out. I say most because I have noticed that even the factory cars, especially the earlier models, have a tendency to surge slightly as a result of the normal mixture oscillation that happens when the cars run in closed loop. That being said, I feel that the tolerance level for low speed drivabiltiy varies considerably between people, some people like the roughness with the cam and some people don't car for it at all. A car that has enough cam in it, is not going to run as smooth as a stocker no matter how it's tuned simply because of the reversion that's going on in the intake and the amount of dilution from the overlap. Out here I take the time to carefully tune all the light-part throttle load sites steady state , and make some other changes to reduce the closed loop hunting that can attribute to the bucking or surging that happens at lower engine speeds. We like to run the cars closed loop because most of the cars we tune run catalysts, and many people are concerned with emissions compliance. If that is not a concern for you, there is the option to run the car open loop, which can help smooth things out if the cam is big enough. I'd be happy do discuss this further on the phone.

- Chris
 

Russ M

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What Chris said.

Do you think its possible to tune out with the factory ECU Chris?

I have seen you do some magic with reprogramming the OEM ECU.
 

vprtech

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What Chris said.

Do you think its possible to tune out with the factory ECU Chris?

I have seen you do some magic with reprogramming the OEM ECU.

If it can be tuned out via calibration work, then I should be able to do it through the stock ecu. In other words , as long as it's a solid build, then we should be ok to tune it.
 

DVSGTS

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This is my old car. It always had a bucking problem if I tried to cruise it at 1600-2000 rpms in closed loop. I chalked the jerking/bucking up to the fact that it was modded pretty good. It has ported heads, T&D rockers, external billet rails with 42lb injectors, stock iron flywheel, 70mm accufab TBs, VEC II, B&B headers and cat back w RT high flow cats, DC quickfire O2s just before the turnouts but definately seeing all 5 cylinders. The cam is a custom RSI grind, but its not too overly aggressive. I believe it is in the 22x/23x range. I dyno tuned it with the help of the owner of Dyno Comp in Scottsdale Az on his loaded Dyno Dynamics dyno. Open loop WOT never missed a beat and pulls really hard. I was never able to use the normal calculation for the base fuel cal, which is the only weird thing I experienced in the tuning. They are 42lb green top injectors, but in order to set the LTFTs near 0, the base had to be around 55%. The new owner did send them off to Tony to get cleaned and flow matched. Apparently they weren't too bad. It has one innovate LC-1 that I swapped back and forth and monitored both banks. Cycles between 14-16 in closed loop. I spent ALOT of time fiddling with the TB blade positioning also to combat the issue after research and had it about as good as I thought it could be. Going further on adjustments did show up dramatically on the driveability. The new owner sent the TBs off to accufab to be rebuilt/checked and had a bearing/bushing replaced and one of the blades adjusted to their spec. The car has enough torque that it only required the slightest crack of the TBs to cruise with. It was really hard to just barely touch the pedal, so when it was mine, I usually drove "around" it. I did alot of monitoring of the O2 sensors via a scan tool to try to see what was happening in closed loop and the car would be perfectly smooth cruising then buck out of nowhere. I want to say the LTFTs abrupty shifted to a mid teens (-) number and then come back in and smooth out. I believe its real close, but I am under the impression that it may have a little too much injector and the VEC has a hard time compensating. My next step was to go SCT or bring it over to Dan, but I ended up selling it before I was able to do that.

I've stayed in touch with the new owner to try to iron this thing out because he is an amazing guy and a TRUE Mopar man. You should see his real Hemi race cars! Whatever I can do to help, I'm here.
 

'Trust'

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Big cams buck, just the nature of the beast. If your friend wants to be rid of it, change the cam out. Get one with a higher LSA.
 

Jack B

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Funny- Mine bucks too. Striker heads + cam, alum flywheel, stock (but reflashed) PCM. Its pretty jumpy below 2000 rpm also. I just figured I had to live with it because of the big cam. Now there's hope! :)

This has been belabored in the past, but, the VEC, especially with larger injectors creates some compatibility issues with our PCM's. The SCT tuning software will fix the problem. That is not a maybe.
 
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