2001 with Headers. Is check engine light common???

[J DAWG]

2001 with Belanger headers, Roe oval cats and Corsa exhaust. I also have heads and a cam in the car. Drove the car about a 100 miles with heads and can prior to installing headers, cats, catback. Car was on dyno and went down the 1/4 prior to exhaust and no light.

Now with headers/cats/catback I am getting codes 172 and 175 (running rich on bank 1 and bank 2). I have reset the pcm and moved the sensors to #3 and #4 cylinders hoping this would be the leanest places. The sensors were previously reading the front 3 tubes and still setting the rich codes.

I am trying to remember if people have previously posted problems with check engine light associated with headers on creampuffs. Does anyone recall if there is an association with this year car??? I thought Belangers were not supposed to throw codes???


I have yet to put new sensors in, but that is probably my next step unless someone has any suggestions. Car has 10k miles on it.

 

[J DAWG]

again no codes the 1st 100 miles with stock exhaust. Also there is quite alot of black sut(sp) in the tips and the car does have an odor as well.

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

Yep, Check a post of mine over a year ago. I have a 2002, and Headers definetly kick off codes. The 2001 and 2002 PCM/ECU are the most finiky of all the other years. They dont like changes. To fix this, I got my hands on a Mopar ECU. You might want to get a 97 computer or a Mopar computer. That will fix your problem.

Jon

 

[J DAWG]

Jon, do you remember the title of the post?


I have been told to pick up an older pcm 96 or 97, but that really *****. Some dealers claim and sell Belangers claiming there will be no check engine lights for the 2001 and 2002.

I wonder if I couls skip the pcm swap and get a VEC2? Don't know what my a/f is right now, but does anyone think I can use a VEC2 to adjust it to where the light won't come on? Probably won't fix the problem, but just thinking out loud.


John

 

[Kurt 97 GTS]

Yep, common problem on that year. May want to check into the O2 sims. This seems to have helped others with this problem.

 

[J DAWG]

Thanks Kurt. Have heard about the sims, but what do they actually do? Pros and cons?


Thanks

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

J Dawg, the Sims will reslve the problem, at this point, its your "high flow cats" that are causing the problem, they are not cleaning out enough fuel, so the rear o2's are tripping. The SIMS, fake it, they simulate that everything is cool. The problem is, if there IS a problem, they keep lying, so you effectively remove their use from the system. Its not that big of a deal, because my Mopar ECU does the exact same thing, it basically doesnt even ask the rear o2's what the status is.

The cost is kind of high on them, thats why I did mopar ecu, because for a few extra bucks you get another PCM (that is easier to swap out, then jacking the car and installing the sims). BUT add to it, that your NEXT mod like an aluminum flywheel, or 708 cam, or some other change is going to KICK off yet ANOTHER code, and you see why the best solution is to get rid of what is complaining. The PCM/ECU.

(I know from experience, I installed the exhaust AND later the Alumn flywheel, so I know what I am talking about, the sims wont fix the flywheel isssue).

Jon

 

[KenH]

J DAWG,
I have an '01 with the same setup except I am using the RT 3" HF cats rather than the Roe cats. I have several hundred miles on mine over 4 months and been down the track a half dozen times with no problems with a check engine light.

The O2 sensors should be in the upper **** location where it mounts on a single header tube and not down at the bottom **** near the collector. The lower position can cause a an O2 sensor light due to the slow heating of the sensor. I believe older Belanger headers did have a check light issue on the newer cars which was resolved on the newer headers by moving the sensor location higher.

If you are really running rich in some or all of your cylinders, the VEC2 could be used to take care of that. I have one, but am not really using it to adjust much yet. Hoping to make it down to a dyno tomorrow and do some dialing in. I've been curious if my headers are making my car run richer or leaner. I have been assuming richer as I definitely get more snapping and popping when I let up on the throttle since I installed them.

--- Ken

 

[99 R/T 10]

Hey JDAWG,
As much as I hate to day this, Jon is right(dam that stings ). I would go with sims first(I believe you can get them from any speed shop or try Larry Macedo). If you want to go with a 96 PCM, check with Larry(407-246-6511). I believe he had a brand new one at the shop when I was there. Good luck.

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

Woah... the rotation of the earth just stopped for a second. I'll let this one go, as a freak anomoly, but 96 R/T 10 and 2002_Viper_GTS_ACR are NEVER to agree on anything.


Jon

 

[Steve 00RT/10]

The O2 sensors should be in the upper **** location where it mounts on a single header tube and not down at the bottom **** near the collector. The lower position can cause a an O2 sensor light due to the slow heating of the sensor. I believe older Belanger headers did have a check light issue on the newer cars which was resolved on the newer headers by moving the sensor location higher.

With Belanger headers on the newer Gen 11 cars..00 and up, there are two different problems with check engine lights. Rear sims will not fix the front 02 sensor heater code. They are only for shunting out the convertors(or lack of).

The best place for the front 02s to be is in the factory location as it senses all 5 tubes--not just one. While it is not likely to be dangerous only sensing one tube, theorectically a single tube could have a richer condition while the others had a leaner condition. The computer would lean out the entire bank. I moved mine to this new single tube location a couple years ago when Belanger came up with this fix because I was constantly setting a light and having to reset the computer. Even in the new recommended location, I was still setting a light every 500-700 miles. Dan Cragin then came out with some quick fire front 02s, around VOI7 time, which allowed the factory **** to be used again. They worked--no lights, but unfortunately, on my car, they were a little taller than stock and shorted out on the aluminum cover plate above the 02s. I then utilized a Sean Roe method which has worked for me ever since. I drilled out the little sensing holes on the sensor to a bigger size. I now have roughly 9,000 miles with no lights and my 02s are in the proper location. A search will produce many threads on this issue from a few years ago. Sean's fix, with pictures, is also there. He told me it has worked on many, but not all cars they have tried it on. I guess I'm one of the lucky ones. I am more comfortable with the 02s in the right spot.

Steve

 

[VIPR GTS]

All of the above are correct. My 2001 has rear sims, front sensors drilled per Sean Roe and Macedo installed 97 PCM. No lights is a very good thing.

 

[jimandela]

also i think Dan Cragin came out with a sensor that heated up quicker to avoid the codes.
i would get in touch with him.
best wishes
Jim

 

[1TONY1]

As said above, I don't think rear sims will help with an upstream o2 code. I also think reading all cylinders with the sensor is best, but john was trying to get rid of the code. Seans idea would be a good start and if that works, try going back to the three or five tube locations.
John, If you are going to go forced induction later, maybe the 96 pcm would be a good choice. I may know where one is at you could try. Here is Seans post:
http://vca2.viperclub.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB14&Number=100750&Forum=UBB14&Words=sensor&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=100750&Search=true#Post100750

 

[GTS Bruce]

Run archer cdi headers.Upstream sensor in middle tube of cylinder bank.Plugs had 4-5000 miles on them with this setup.All look ok.Not necessary to mount sensor in the collector.No cats use rear syms.No codes. Bruce

 

[J DAWG]

Thanks guys for all the advice. Very helpful.


Mike, let me know when you wanna hook up and go racing. Should be drying out here in a few weeks.

 

[J DAWG]

As said above, I don't think rear sims will help with an upstream o2 code. I also think reading all cylinders with the sensor is best, but john was trying to get rid of the code. Seans idea would be a good start and if that works, try going back to the three or five tube locations.
John, If you are going to go forced induction later, maybe the 96 pcm would be a good choice. I may know where one is at you could try. Here is Seans post:
http://vca2.viperclub.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB14&Number=100750&Forum=UBB14&Words=sensor&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=100750&Search=true#Post100750

Thanks for the link Tony. I would feel better if I could monitor all cylinders as well.

 

[2MANYTOYS]

I had the same problem. Once I switched to the older 96 computer I've had no codes thrown since.

 

[J DAWG]

Drilled sensors 3/16 and it took twice the time as it had before for code to appear.


This morning went ahead and drilled them 3/8 and will also add an extra ground as Sean advised similar to what is done with the Roe s/c cars and see what happens.

 

[Steve 00RT/10]

This morning went ahead and drilled them 3/8 and will also add an extra ground as Sean advised similar to what is done with the Roe s/c cars and see what happens.

I added the extra ground last year as well. It turns out that multiple sensors use the same #20 or #22 ground wire for a home run to ground. They were working out some glitches with the SC cars and found that by adding an additional ground off any one of several sensors, they could get many of the cars to run better. I actually grounded 2 sensors on the driver's side of the intake manifold. The additional resistance in the little tiny wire that they all tied into to get to ground caused some computer and/or tuning problems.
It is very easy to do.

Steve