2006 coupe won't spin tires just flooring it?

[Craigers15]

Don't get me wrong, I love my Viper, only had it for a month now... but... doesn't seem to accelerate nearly as fast as my Z06, on paper they are almost identical. Car won't even spin tires in 1st gear(without using clutch). Have it booked for 126 point inspection on Tuesday, see if they find anything(hoping they do) . Just a little dissapointed in the power right now. Higher gears and at speed, seems very good, pulls hard. Just wondering how it should act and feel while flooring it through the first two gears... thanks

 

[xRUSTYx]

What sort of tires are you running on your GenIII vs Z06?

If you're still running runflats, ditch them.

 

[chesapeake07]

Sounds like it could be a clogged cat. That's how mine acted early on and then I noticed a slight hesitation at certain RPMs. Also, had a different exhaust note on each side. It was clogged between the first and second cats...couldn't tell until I removed both cats to so see the honeycomb torn away.

What is your mileage? Stock?

 

[Craigers15]

18000 miles, completely stock other than K&N intake. Thanks.

 

[Wiretech]

On my 06 I can be driving 20 miles then hit and it will spin sideways on runflats.

 

[chesapeake07]

I would check out the cats first. If you have oem runflats, it should be no problem to break those tires loose without using the clutch.
Do you have any CEL or codes pop up?

 

[Viper Specialty]

Much of this on 2004-2006 cars can be traced to the PE Delay Timer which is part of the PCM programming. Runflats are one thing, but on decent tires and/or warm weather, the later cars definitely show the fact that they are down on tip-in power due to this... ahem... feature.

 

[bmw2nv2000]

Much of this on 2004-2006 cars can be traced to the PE Delay Timer which is part of the PCM programming. Runflats are one thing, but on decent tires and/or warm weather, the later cars definitely show the fact that they are down on tip-in power due to this... ahem... feature.

Is that feature programmed out when you do a SCT programmer?

 

[Craigers15]

Nope, no codes... thanks for all the replies. I'll start with cats and go from there. Thanks guys!

 

[Viper X]

Nope, no codes... thanks for all the replies. I'll start with cats and go from there. Thanks guys!

Your new car is likely overdue for spark plugs and fuel injector service as well.

You will be surprised how much difference the above can make if your cats, plugs and injectors are working correctly.

Dan

 

[Bird325]

I don't know about the Gen III's, but I can't floor my Gen II in the power band in any of the first 3 gears without breaking loose even with almost new PS2 tires. I'd say you have something holding back your power at lower RPM's. Ditto on the usual stuff ... plugs, wires and injectors. Of course, check your air filters!

 

[Paul Hawker]

Vipers have really long 3:07 gears. Vettes come stock usually with 3;55 or such. Change the gears and it is spinn-er-rama.

 

[Allan]

I think the Vette rear gear is a 3:42................anyway, My 06 only has the regular idiot bolt-ons with SCT canned tune, and I cannot push the pedal to the floor in 1st gear without crazy wheel spin .....have had the tires break loose at the track in 3rd gear a few times accelerating on a long uphill sweeper more than once -85 mph ish. Your car is broken somehow.

 

[Craigers15]

Ya, somethings not quite right... got it schedule in for full tune up next Tuesday. Thanks for all the feedback.

 

[ledfoot]

I remember guys were losing power on their 05' s with the addition of K&N's. They ended up getting newer editions..If your filter was put on back then, the car could have gotten one of the bogus one's........Good Luck

 

[Viper Specialty]

Plugged converters will show itself as declining power as load/RPM increases. There is NO confusing the issue. Many cars with bad cats will not even rev much past 3500-4000 without literally falling on their face. It is possible you have a very early failure, but it is highly unlikely, as cat problems tend to decay exponentially. In most cases, by the time you notice something is wrong, you are minutes away from a full-on meltdown.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Is that feature programmed out when you do a SCT programmer?

Yes, always. The PE timer is a damaged piston and ruined converters looking for a place to happen, especially on Paxton cars or cars utilizing a VEC-2/3.

Just so people can appreciate what this thing is, it keeps your engine at 14.7:1 for 1.5-3.0 seconds after pressing the accelerator pedal, and it will fight any modifications you can do to try and remove it or tune it out down the line. The more you add, the more it pulls to hold 14.7:1. That is REALLY lean for acceleration loads on any engine.

The purpose is to absorb small demands for increased power and lower emissions. It "assumes" that if you really want to accelerate, you will expire the timer by holding the pedal long enough. The problem is that it can induce detonation, and especially in Paxton and VEC cars, it can cause wild swings in AFR that cause O2 storage in the cats, followed by a huge dumping of fuel, making the converters run extremely hot, eventually leading to meltdown under the right circumstances.

 

[copperhead007]

Final GTS,

Can this PCM "14.7 biasing" cause throttle response lag or a lack luster acceleration feel especially at part throttle?

Any other adverse performance degrading features we should know about those corporate bean counters force the computer designers & programmers to build into the pcm system?

 

[Viper Specialty]

Final GTS,

Can this PCM "14.7 biasing" cause throttle response lag or a lack luster acceleration feel especially at part throttle?

Any other adverse performance degrading features we should know about those corporate bean counters force the computer designers & programmers to build into the pcm system?

Sure can. The feature is roughly 3.0 seconds at part throttle, and 1.5 seconds at WOT. This will absolutely influence throttle response and tip-in feel.

There are a few other items, sure. There are overly-safe performance killing routines for response to high intake air temps, and plenty of other goofy oddities in the programming. There are also plenty of examples of non-liner fuel and timing map points that can be cleaned up.

 

[TowDawg]

Maybe I'm just lucky to have warm weather, good roads and Invo's (in a straight line), but as long as I haven't just pulled the car out of the garage (let the car and tires warm up), I can stand on it in 2nd with basically no wheelspin, and I can usually stand on it in 1st with little wheelspin also. I've even got 3.33's in the rear end, although I also have a Quaife, which I'm sure helps. I even put a new clutch in to make sure I was getting all the power to the ground. The clutch did make a difference because it must have been slipping somewhat. Not enough to actually feel the slippage (especially in higher gears), but it definitley felt faster after the new clutch. I still don't get a lot of spin though. I know it's not a clogged cat (I don't have any), and the car put down over 500 rwhp and rwtq on the dyno.
The brand of tires and a lot of conditions can come into play. If you have exhuasted all the other options, you might want to check the clutch. Like I said, there was no obvious felling of the clutch slipping, but the car definitely felt more powerful after the new clutch.

 

[Allan]

Interesting...........I'm still on the original clutch, and it's as solid as a rock.

 

[TowDawg]

I'm hoping mine lasts longer this time, but the original had 27,000 miles on it from the previous owner. Considering I had to have the engine rebuilt almost right after i got the car, I would say there's a fair chance the clutch might have had a rough life also.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Its also worth mentioning that road quality throughout the USA and especially Ontario Canada is vastly different. Our roads here are pretty sticky... even if loaded with potholes. The roads up in Ontario are slick as hell. They use a different aggregate than we do here. I am sure this follows as you move around the country, so it would of course be easiest to diagnose if comparing two cars in the same place/weather/roads, etc.

 

[C-Note]

All this guessing..... Put the car on a dyno, tells all tails.

 

[ViperGeorge]

Sure can. The feature is roughly 3.0 seconds at part throttle, and 1.5 seconds at WOT. This will absolutely influence throttle response and tip-in feel.

There are a few other items, sure. There are overly-safe performance killing routines for response to high intake air temps, and plenty of other goofy oddities in the programming. There are also plenty of examples of non-liner fuel and timing map points that can be cleaned up.

On my Paxton 06 DC Performance reprogrammed the PCM and changed this timer. I guess that could do the same for a non-Paxton car.

 

[Viper Specialty]

On my Paxton 06 DC Performance reprogrammed the PCM and changed this timer. I guess that could do the same for a non-Paxton car.

Yep. With a Paxton it is dangerous, when N/A it is annoying.

 

[Viper X]

On my Paxton 06 DC Performance reprogrammed the PCM and changed this timer. I guess that could do the same for a non-Paxton car.

Pretty sure the DC Performance tune for NA cars change the timer too. My 06 coupe with the DC tune is very responsive, very quickly at WOT. You can contact Dan at DC for more info.

Dan is relocating his shop right now, so it may take him longer than normal to get back to you.

Dan

 

[C-Note]

I thought DC was closed, do you have a contact for Dan?

 

[Viper X]

I thought DC was closed, do you have a contact for Dan?

DC relocating, has secured shop space in Alhambra, CA.

Dan Cragin; 310-597-6295

 

[C-Note]

DC relocating, has secured shop space in Alhambra, CA.

Dan Cragin; 310-597-6295

I am sooooo happy to hear that Dan is coming back into the game, thank you!