2008 engine parts fit all Gen 3's

[418viper]

Following in summer Viper Magazine engine article-
"The new cyclinder head is designed to be backward compatible with the current Gen 3 Viper. A Mopar Kit will be developed (release date unknown at press time) that will include the new heads, new intake manifold, and manual throttle bodies for Gen 3 owners who want more power."
Bolt on's for 600hp!!!

 

[Vypr Phil]

418viper,

Replacing heads, intake manifold and TB will make a difference.

However, will you get 600 HP? In a word, no.

The 2008 engine has a very sophisticated engine control module with many multiples of lines of codes over the previous models (think of it as an "engine map" with a much, much higher resolution).

Furthermore, the camshaft is literally a piece of mechanical engineering art, which by itself and the addition of said ECM will be the biggest provider of additional horsepower.

I certainly expect air flow to be substantially improved with the new head, intake manifold and TB and will be curious how much added horsepower and torque will be gained with these three items. My (most generous) guess would be around 35-40 hp by themselves.

Viper Phil

 

[OKFireChief]

Any word on cost? May be to expensive for the 40 HP gain ...

 

[Viper Specialty]

IMHO, you are going to see much more than a 40 HP gain.

Current Gen-3 cars with aftermarket heads flowing around what these do are already seeing north of 600 horsepower on a good tune with a nice cam.

The big bonus with the VVT however is that the new engine will pick up power under the curve, which is nice... but at the cost of an EMS which is going to be 100x more difficult to work with.

There is much left in the Viper engine in any configuration. The blocks themselves are FAR from efficient or optimal for big power, and the new 08 block has only gone about 10% of the way there... and backwards in some small ways, especially relating to big power down the road.

The aftermarket will reap its benefits on the 03-06 cars the same as the 08+ cars, these new heads just make it a little bit easier- and maybe a tad cheaper, for SOME applications.

PS- and if these mod kits are anything like what Mopar has "released" before... I wouldnt hold my breath waiting for them...

 

[418viper]

I agree that with only a 20% improvement in airflow (per article) the heads and manifold alone will only make 40-50hp. However I wouldn't go to all the work changing heads without slapping in a new camshaft. There are plenty of camshaft grinders out there that can make big power. And any headcam package would have to follow up with a tune by DC.

 

[black mamba1]

All I can say is...YIPPPEEEEEEEE!!! I will deff. be adding these new heads to my 04!

 

[DSG2003SVT]

Furthermore, the camshaft is literally a piece of mechanical engineering art, which by itself and the addition of said ECM will be the biggest provider of additional horsepower.

I was curious what "cam-in-cam" technology was. Can anyone explain that? I noticed it in the Viper engine section on the SRT page. I've tried to search for it but I've come up with no answers that way. Is it just another version of VVT?

 

[X-Metal]

depending on price VS hp per dollar, the striker heads might be a better route for someone wanting to build up a GEN3. plus then you will be upgrading to roller rockers and much improved push rods for better valve geometery, which unless the mopar head package includes them, i dont think you will get that.

 

[Viper X]

Interesting thread.

I have already spoken to a couple of our local tuners, DC & West Coast. I've also spoken to Exotic Engine guru Kevin Singleton.

In short, yes, you can easily make 600 hp at the flywheel on a Gen III with a set of Stryker heads (which come with roller rockers), ported intake, ported throttle body, headers, high flows and a good tune. If you add a cam, depending upon the cam, some guys are now making 700 hp at the flywheel.

Bottom line, you don't have to wait for an 08 if you want 600+ hp right now.

If you look at total cost, you can likely pick up a 03 - 06 Gen III for considerably less $$$ than the new 2008, even after you mod it to 600 hp.

 

[black mamba1]

My Viper tech (the Wizard) doesnt think the 08 heads are gonna bolt on the Gen 3's, he says the 08 is a completely new motor and that things will be MUCH more complicated than we are saying here.

 

[Viper Specialty]

My Viper tech (the Wizard) doesnt think the 08 heads are gonna bolt on the Gen 3's, he says the 08 is a completely new motor and that things will be MUCH more complicated than we are saying here.

Eh... sorry to do this to you Wizard Man...

Chuck is wrong on this one. The 2008 shares a virtually identical block, short of the 1mm Overbore, VVT equipment mounting bosses, and metric hardware instead of SAE.

The 2008 is NOT a new engine, it is a finessed version of the current engine. The heads/manifold will bolt to the current gen, I am ALREADY working on adapting over the front timing cover/pan/pickup/oiling system (yes, they fit with a little machining).

To reiterate a point, who cares? The aftermarket has already walloped the new car in every way for years... its just more power to START, and it has its downsides too. We tuners and builders can make you ANYTHING you want RIGHT NOW, it really doesnt matter. Its one thing to fix a design flaw like the current oiling system with the new one... but Heads/Bottom End/Drivetrain is already available in every configuration imaginable.

 

[black mamba1]

We tuners and builders can make you ANYTHING you want RIGHT NOW, it really doesnt matter.

This thread has created some interest for me in what I am hearing regarding Stryker Heads. I have some questions:

1. What exactly are these Stryker heads?
2. Who makes them?
3. How much more power do these heads generally produce?
4. How much do they cost?
5. Are there problems w/ these Stryker heads we need to know about?

I have been searching all over the forums for more info on these Strkyer heads, w/out much luck on their details. Any info would be greatly appreciated!

 

[418viper]

Stryker heads sold through http://www.jmcylinderheads.com
and I believe they are very expensive @7000$
Other alternatives
Louthan cylinder head porting.
Port Pros cylinder head porting.

 

[X-Metal]

the stryker heads really help in several ways. first off the valves have been relocated for better flow, beacuse the stock location of the valves has restricted air flow from the cylinder walls. the stryker heads help this problem by better positioning.

the stryker heads also are a completely redesigned casting that has better heat transfer via more efficient cooling in the water jacket area.
the new Strykers also utilize better material in the valve guides and seat and allow the use of better valve springs, and improved geometry. we have found the stykersi n thier out the box state-will out flow a ported stock head. plus you get cnc ports and combustion chambers. plus the stykers have a much improved short side radius on the floor of the exhaust port for a better line of site path for the valve.
here are some pics of styker heads, that we are getting ready to polish the ports on prior to assembling them on a customers Viper engine.
we can also get these heads at a very reasonable price. if you price out what it would cost to just buy roller rockers, pushrods, valve springs, good retainers, and then get your stock heads ported, its actually more feasable to get the strykers!

 

[black mamba1]

the stryker heads really help in several ways. first off the valves have been relocated for better flow, beacuse the stock location of the valves has restricted air flow from the cylinder walls. the stryker heads help this problem by better positioning.

Great pics and info! What are the estimated power gains w/ Strykers?

 

[X-Metal]

the stryker heads really help in several ways. first off the valves have been relocated for better flow, beacuse the stock location of the valves has restricted air flow from the cylinder walls. the stryker heads help this problem by better positioning.

Great pics and info! What are the estimated power gains w/ Strykers?

thank you!
when we use them with a 708 style cam, we have gained over 100hp to the tires.

 

[black mamba1]

thank you!
when we use them with a 708 style cam, we have gained over 100hp to the tires.

; I really like this. How much for the Stryker set up you are referring to w/ the cam?

 

[Viper X]

I believe Jeff Morys (the JM in the JM Cylinder heads) is a SRT or Chrysler Engineer - who develops heads!

HP with a set of Strykers should go up a bunch depending on other mods. My guess, about 60 to 75 max hp over stock heads by themselves. Someone else who knows more should chime in if I'm wrong.

Yes, the 2008 block is simply "refined" as Daniel states (he's almost always right guys). The new 2008 heads should fit the Gen III blocks. They will likely be much more expensive than the Strykers for about the same hp gains, if they every become available. Also, the 2008 heads won't fit Gen III headers while the Strykers will, so you'll need new headers for the 08 heads.

The Strykers have many other benefits too as Daniel said with better engine cooling being right at the top of my list. They are a bit thicker casting as well, so they're a bit stronger.

As for issues, I've had them on my 925 rwhp Paxton car for about 10,000 miles without any issues.

Dan

 

[Racer Robbie]

Guys,

If you want the answer to the big question they go to your summer issue of viper magazine on page 9, center column, last paragraph. In short Kipp Owen, Director of SRT, says the heads, clutch, pressure plate, transmission, flywheel, and rear axle will fit the 2003-2006 SRT10 vipers.

Robbie

 

[2002_Viper_GTS_ACR]

7k for 100 rwhp doesnt sound all that great. But I guess thats just me.

Paxton for 10k (full retail pricing) will produce a much better power per dollar ratio !!

Boooooost me... over getting blown away by 7k for 100 gain.

Jon

PS. Esp. since getting the full 100k probably requires 2-3k full exhaust system, and the paxton will make all that power with a STOCK exhaust system.

 

[Viper X]

Hey Jon,

Kinda depends on what you want, doesn't it? $$'s per hp isn't the only way to look at this.

I have one Paxton SRT-10 and am looking to improve my SRTC for the track. While you can run a Paxton car on a road course, normally aspirated cars tend to work better. They run cooler, are easier on the car in general and are more predictable on accelleration / deceleration. Never mind the detonation potential of any forced induction car on a road course.

Dan

 

[black mamba1]

Hey Jon,

Kinda depends on what you want, doesn't it? $$'s per hp isn't the only way to look at this.

I have one Paxton SRT-10 and am looking to improve my SRTC for the track. While you can run a Paxton car on a road course, normally aspirated cars tend to work better. They run cooler, are easier on the car in general and are more predictable on accelleration / deceleration. Never mind the detonation potential of any forced induction car on a road course.

Dan

I agree. I am really trying to stay away from blowing the engine, since heat is what both ages and degrades the life of the motor and the internals in general. Anyone got figures on how much hp a naturally aspirated Gen 3 can make w/ full head job and reworked engine?

 

[black mamba1]

Guys,

If you want the answer to the big question they go to your summer issue of viper magazine on page 9, center column, last paragraph. In short Kipp Owen, Director of SRT, says the heads, clutch, pressure plate, transmission, flywheel, and rear axle will fit the 2003-2006 SRT10 vipers.

Robbie

I am planning to install all these newer components on my 04. In addition, the new hood is not only more aggressive it is functional and provides better cooling due low placed louvers. Better cooling = more power and longer engine life. But I will go w/ Jeff Lempke's new hood, I am not paying $15,000 for the 08 hood from DC!

 

[DSG2003SVT]

I agree. I am really trying to stay away from blowing the engine, since heat is what both ages and degrades the life of the motor and the internals in general. Anyone got figures on how much hp a naturally aspirated Gen 3 can make w/ full head job and reworked engine?

I know I'm one of the new guys here, and far from an expert, but I would say, as far as NA limit on pump gas, this is pretty high.
Comes out to 712rwhp!! A setup similar to that would probably be pushing it just about as far as possible.

http://www.hennesseyperformance.com...t=tiCZAVgD&DoThis=Dodge+Viper&ActionReq=Where

 

[Viper Specialty]

I am planning to install all these newer components on my 04. In addition, the new hood is not only more aggressive it is functional and provides better cooling due low placed louvers. Better cooling = more power and longer engine life. But I will go w/ Jeff Lempke's new hood, I am not paying $15,000 for the 08 hood from DC!

I would highly advise waiting to see what the cost of these parts will be before deciding anything. Knowing OEM pricing, it is very likely that these "stock" parts will carry hgher price tags than some aftermarket, MUCH better components.

 

[Viper X]

I think one of these H______y cars started the "One Lap of America" race and didn't finish due to engine issues.

Be careful.

 

[DSG2003SVT]

I think one of these H______y cars started the "One Lap of America" race and didn't finish due to engine issues.

Be careful.

I wasn't saying to send his car to any particular place, I was just saying look at the setup listed and it should be something similar to that for the best NA power. That way, there's a list of parts and mods to show what makes the power and I'm not just giving him a hp/tq number.

 

[black mamba1]

There is no way in hell I would let H______y touch my Viper. I will deff go w/ one of the recommended tuners/builders from the seasoned guys in the forum. And I agree w/ Viper X about waiting for the aftermarket guys...hell, DC makes a good car, but their parts have the price of all their employee health and retirement programs built into them.. the result of that being $14,000 hoods.

 

[Paul Hawker]

While many of these 08 engine parts will fit on previous SRTs, they are not simple bolt-ons. They will more than likely need some machine work to make them fit.

In addition, people wanting to upgrade their current cars should take an holistic approach. Just adding one part at a time may not get you the smooth running results you desire.

Spend a little time with your local tuner. Go over your desired results and let them put together a comprehensive package will work together with your other components.

Most will need different components to set up a drag, street, or track car.

I look forward to seeing the enhanced versions of our beloved snakes taking advantage of all the new technology available.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Note Hennessey,s failure in the One Lap was the oil pump. Not directly related to mods he does.

Not standing up for him but he does more for Viper press than Dodge marketing.