2009 vs. 2010

[compcoupe21]

I almost pulled the trigger on a 2009 ACR but started thinking that they are way overpriced even in the mid 90's. Every where you look their are 09 cars for sale and the 08 cars that are for sale are not selling either. That being said and taking into accout their is 0% on the 09 cars in my opinion it takes the 08 value (I'm talking ACR's) down to around 75k. I'm guessing their are over 100 unsold soon to be called "left over" 09's and they will have to and should put a 10k rebate on them to move them. It's Feb. 10th of 2010 and all of those cars are unsold and people are saying the 2010's are all gone, that is totally not true, they are just sold to dealer inventory. The 09 cars need to be rebated or a lot of them will be unsold this time next year, look at all the new 08 cars that are unsold (not a huge # but a # that should be zero). I would buy a 09 right now if it was 85k, otherwise I'll wait for a 10 and be happy to pay the difference for a last year car. I'd love to hear the forums thoughts, I know their is a lot of knowledge and opinions on this forum and I'm looking forward to hearing it!!!

 

[goldcup]

I would agree with you seems like
ACR's are the most available 09's out there and there sure seems to be alot of them.
Would guess there are gonna be some great deals to be had.If I have a choice between a slightly discounted 09 and a full price 10 I would buy the 10!This time next year there very likely will be a good supply of ACR's out there.

 

[Pythonpete]

I agree with you, I've been eyeing a new 09 but the prices are no better (vs invoice) than what I paid for my 06 which I ordered to be made for me. Doesn't make sense.

 

[compcoupe21]

Agree Cup and Pete! You know what just blew me away, I looked up the production #'s for a 2009 ZR1 and they built 1,415 if them to roughly 200 ACR's. That is a 7 to 1 ratio, now I don't know how many ZR1's are unsold but their are only 3 on ebay compared to 15 ACR's and we all know their are about 100 ACR's unsold. I don't get it.

 

[Danno]

"I almost pulled the trigger on a 2009 ACR but started thinking that they are way overpriced even in the mid 90's"

Guys I disagree, I dont know what else your going to buy in that price range with those kind of performance numbers and exclusivity? Smoking deals to be had and 0.0% As far as there being over 100 ACR's left over I think they only made APPROX 250 ACR's for 09 . (Your post said you almost pulled the trigger on an ACR so I assume were not referencing the non ACR.) I'm sure after this post, that someone will count all the new ACR's for sale currently but I would bet theres not more than 35 or 40 in the whole country.

(If I have a choice between a slightly discounted 09 and a full price 10 I would buy the 10!) I agree with this statement totally but in the current marketplace were talking about a SUBSTANTIAL discount on a 2009 and 0.0%. Color was very important to me so I surely understand waiting for your color though!

 

[VicTxV10]

Tomball has that many 09 ACR's right now. Current "new" inventory is 36 ACR's at one dealer.

 

[BlknBlu]

That is why the value of our cars is dropping. We can not have it both ways. Once someone hears of a deal for 65k on a car it lowers the bar and everyone thinks every car should sell for that. We need to keep the value of these cars at a premuim. If you get a great deal good for you, but it does not need to be made public to the world to devalue our beloved snakes.

Bruce

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

There were around 260 ACRs built in 2009 , and they constituted the largest number of vehicle type for the Gen IV. That said the numbers are going quite quickly with the aggressive sales and low financing ( we only have one ACR left ) that is available.

With only 370 vehicles for 2010 ( half the number for 2009 ) and the possibility of the last Viper ever built , there is little doubt that the Viper sales will heat up. Of the 370 at least 106 will be unique , special vehicles and there are rumors of an additional 40 interesting models that may appear. Spreading around 220 Vipers amongst all the colors and in the three body styles, leaves a very limited number of any Viper left next year.

Calls are coming in from non Viper owners wanting to get a last year model, and though we all know on this Board that the 2013 will be tentatively made , the key word is tentatively. Many callers are collectors wanting to get a piece of the action , in case it disappears. Let's hope this brings back the historic strong resale, and with so few available next year, it makes sense that it could occur.

We are down to only around 7 2009s, and folks are grabbing the discounts and the financing ------ I predict you will never see this happen again and definitely nothing on the 2010s.We have a very unique and large mix of 2010s , so the last Gen IV looks quite exciting for Woodhouse and all our customers.

Respectfully Submitted,
Bill Pemberton
Woodhouse Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Viper, Hurst
1-800-889-1893
cell 402-677-5864
Welcome to Woodhouse | Woodhouse Auto Family | Bellevue Omaha Blair Nebraska | Missouri Valley Iowa
[email protected]

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

I suppose you could say they're overpriced because sales are down, but sales are down for everything - cars, houses, underware. The Viper is a great car at any price.

 

[gilly6993]

I agree a little bit....but, my biggest thing was the color combo....I wasn't flexible, the car was there, 0% financing and Invoice was a decent deal so I took it....yeah, I could have waited til next year but the 10K or so is worth having it now in the color I want....

 

[Boxer12]

From my perspective, and I suppose a dealer's, there isn't much diff between an 09 and 10. The new end plates and 5th gear won't sell the car. If you want a one of a kind and fancy yourself a car collector, get a 10 spec ed. Otherwise, why wait? You could miss a good track year! These cars are the track stars right now, but someone (prob Dodge) will come up with something faster and better. I am not trading in my 09 for a 10, and I suspect very few ppl will do so. The diff is insignificant unless you are going for the 'Ring record... My guess is that in two years (when the 12's come out with all the hype, and being faster and lighter), the main things that will count is mileage and whether its been tracked (and warranty voided). jmo

 

[wirepaladin08]

I just recently bought a 2009 ACR. I just couldn't resist the zero percent and the discount for such a great car! I would make the same decision again. If you are willing to pay for one of the really special 2010's and can get your hands on one, I certainly can't fault you for waiting. I was just happy with the ACR and the deal I got and decided not to wait on an unknown 2010 at an unknown price. Just my two cents.

 

[Smokin' 2]

Me too!
I could have grabbed a car for less but I was color specific and don't mind the investment in 'fun'.

I agree a little bit....but, my biggest thing was the color combo....I wasn't flexible, the car was there, 0% financing and Invoice was a decent deal so I took it....yeah, I could have waited til next year but the 10K or so is worth having it now in the color I want....

 

[Martin]

I'm in the same camp as most here - I certainly don't think paying an extra five or ten grand (or possibly more) for a 2010 over what you can get today for a 2009 makes any sense at all. If you add the financing options to it, I think waiting for a 2010 is stupid. Of course, if you want to put the car in a bubble and wait for your grandkids to sell it at auction to help pay for their kid's college fund, then maybe it makes sense. For me, I'd rather have today's car at a great price than wait for a car that costs more and is a 'collectible' that I'm afraid to drive like it's designed to be driven. Besides, if someone absolutely has to have a 2010 for some reason, I'll wager that any of us can pick up a 2010 with a couple hundred miles when the 2012 models come out - and those will be a lot cheaper than the MSRP++ deals I'm seeing right now. Whenever anyone on this board says "Viper is dead" or something to that effect, we get floods of information from every angle that "Viper will Live" - so it's clear that the odds are in favor of a 2012 coming out. Because of that, I don't think the 2010 is any bigger of a big-deal than the last edition of the Gen I, the Gen II, or maybe even the Gen III for that matter...

 

[Paul Hawker]

Dealers only have a limited supply of Vipers in stock, and with no more being made for at least 2-3 years, they need to make them last.

Expect the next generation of Vipers to go way upscale, with mandated electronic nannys, fancier interiors.

Expect that those buying up the last of the pure sports car, race car for the road, will have more fun than those who wait.

Interest free loans, and discounted prices will dry up the very limited supply quickly.

Since Dodge has totally sold out of their Viper, there will be little incentive for them to continue factory pricing and financing support.

Its kind of like gambling. Everybody wants to buy at the rock bottom, but the chances they may all be gone (at least in the color/features you want) get greater the longer you wait.

 

[compcoupe21]

I agree that the fifth gear and wider stripes and all the other minimal changes don't mean that much, the point I am trying to make is that the 09 cars are NOT moving and they need to lower the price or else the 2010 is the way to go! Anyone who thinks these cars are and should maintain value even near invoice is crazy. They are a low build # according to Bill P of 260 yet near half are unsold, that is not what I call high demand. Anyone who wanted to sell their 09 that they got last summer would be hard pressed to get low 80's so why is a "new" 09 95-100? That being said a 10 for low 100's is the way to go, last year car with uniqueness to it regarding specs, colors, limited editions etc. and a
MY newer when looking down the road at value! So I don't think it is stupid to get a 10 based on the above criteria but as I said I'd buy a 09 right now for mid 80's.

 

[ASPIRATIONS]

I agree that the fifth gear and wider stripes and all the other minimal changes don't mean that much, the point I am trying to make is that the 09 cars are NOT moving and they need to lower the price or else the 2010 is the way to go! Anyone who thinks these cars are and should maintain value even near invoice is crazy. They are a low build # according to Bill P of 260 yet near half are unsold, that is not what I call high demand. Anyone who wanted to sell their 09 that they got last summer would be hard pressed to get low 80's so why is a "new" 09 95-100? That being said a 10 for low 100's is the way to go, last year car with uniqueness to it regarding specs, colors, limited editions etc. and a
MY newer when looking down the road at value! So I don't think it is stupid to get a 10 based on the above criteria but as I said I'd buy a 09 right now for mid 80's.

If you dont think the 2010 are going to depreciate like 09s your crazy,lol.....Like Martin said unless your a collector and want to put it away maybe in 30 yrs a 2010 might mean something...Believe me I know,lol....You wont be able to come close on getting a 2010 ACR like you can get now for a 09 ACR especially with the financing and some ACRs are BELOW invoice....
Another thing ,I think you should go buy a Vette if you want something cheaper
WHY should Dodge discount these cars any more..??? If you cant afford it now then you never will...Yes I want a 2010 ACR 1 of 1 please for 85K. and )% financing. Please make it happen for me and Compcoupe21

 

[compcoupe21]

If you dont think the 2010 are going to depreciate like 09s your crazy,lol.....Like Martin said unless your a collector and want to put it away maybe in 30 yrs a 2010 might mean something...Believe me I know,lol....You wont be able to come close on getting a 2010 ACR like you can get now for a 09 ACR especially with the financing and some ACRs are BELOW invoice....
Another thing ,I think you should go buy a Vette if you want something cheaper
WHY should Dodge discount these cars any more..??? If you cant afford it now then you never will...Yes I want a 2010 ACR 1 of 1 please for 85K. and )% financing. Please make it happen for me and Compcoupe21[/quo

That was funny Kevin, it's Dan here w/the orange GT3. The first thing I'd like to say is that of course it will depreciate, it's a depreciating asset. But in the same breath it will always maintain a better % of value because of it's changes and last year built factor. If you want to use the collector card then look at a 66 vette vs. a 67, the 67 pulls more all day long because it was the last year of that style. Secondly the comparable vette is more money and money is not the deciding factor, logic is! Thirdly why should Dodge discount, well why did they do it in 08 and why are they doing it now with 0%, it's business that makes these decisions and right now they need to do it to move what's left. If July comes around and their are still 25 09 ACR's left would you pay the current invoice price they are going for now, I think not so why should they wait to drop them, do it now so the 10's can maintain some value. P.S. I said 85k for a 09...LOL.

 

[Yellow32]

For me there were several reasons to go with the 09 now (which I did 2 weeks ago) versus waiting for a 2010:

* 2010 ACR's probably will not hit dealer show rooms until July or later (there is a serious lag between production and shipping, usually seems to be 3+ months). This means missing out on tracking an ACR for a full year versus half a year...And, what if there is some sort of delay in production, (not that that has never happened!) and the 10s don't show up until the fall or later

* 2010 ACR's are not likely to be discounted AT ALL, ever, so, expect to pay full sticker

* The ACR I purchased was at a very good discount, I'm not saying how much, but very good, I really doubt that will happen with 2010's, that "immediate" savings was more than worth waiting

Some other reasons:

* For those who finance, the 0% ends March 1, 2010...ergo, will probably not be available for 2010 models, but, you never know, what with GMAC (previously Chrysler Financial) being owned by the US Govt

* Dealers "know" that 2010's will be more valuable and are "scared" of carrying "less desirable" 09s, so, they are (mostly) offering prices off sticker to move the cars out now, rather than continue to floorplan them

* Compartively VERY VERY FEW "used" ACRs are on the market and those in a color besides black, red or grey, seem to sell very quickly (i.e. orange and white) so I am not counting on finding a used one in the choice of color I prefer (I think there are less than 20 made in Very Viper Blue, even fewer with the dual-colored interior), so, could be waiting a while for a used one to come available in that color.

* AND:

Some things to remember, there are a "lot" of 2009 ACRs at dealers right now, that's because production really geared up after September, a lot of dealers have had the majority of their ACRs for 3 months or less. If you move the clock back to last July/early August there were almost no 2009 ACRs available anywhere. Even *today* there are still some dealers waiting on their 09s to arrive (Prefix is very slow). Vipers have been selling at approx. 30 copies a month (44 for Dec, 26 for Jan, no breakdown for ACR versus couples/roadsters). That means there is LESS THAN 10 months of 2009 ACR inventory out there right now (presuming that 80+ of the 260 made for 2009 have sold, a good bet and assuming 18 ACRs sold per month).

* Once the 2010s "hit" if they sell quickly "all" that will be left will be 09s...so, if, if there are any 09s left in 12 months they too will likely be priced close to sticker

* Of course, if the economy drops off a cliff - unlikely since that already happened - then nothing will sell ... however, this _is_ an election year, so, expect the US Govt to try to "buoy" things some more so those monthly sales numbers could climb (double or more) and good buy opportunity

* Finally, I am in the camp of not even wanting a 2012+ Viper because of federal mandates, the "drive by wire" is already "too high tech" for me, but, "brake wire" and who knows "steering by wire" or whatever else is required to make the Viper comply with "FMVSS 126":

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/staticfiles/DOT/NHTSA/Rulemaking/Rules/Associated Files/ESC_PRIA.pdf

a big "no thanks"

-J

p.s. I doubt there will be any 09s for sale this time next year (set time capsule for double check in 365 days) ..(I know of no 2008 ACRs "new" in dealer showrooms, there might be some that dealers had hidden away thinking that 08 was the last year and are now selling them for a "much" more reasonable price, I remember some being marked up to 125K)

 

[Yellow32]

... If you want to use the collector cars then look at a 66 vette vs. a 67, the 67 pulls more all day long because it was the last year of that style.

So, 1966 production was 27,720 Total

And, 1967 product was 22,940 Total

Together that is over 50,000 cars! With 1967 production about 82% of 1966's

Now, take '09 ACRs (per Bill P.) at 260 units and (guess) of '10 ACR production at 280, you have less than 600 ACRs made between 09 and 10, it would stand to reason that all ACRs (even the "original" 2008) will be valuable in the "distant" future, what with less than 1000 EVER MADE!

With "odds" like that, how can you go wrong? (maybe by "paying sticker"?)

As for a new 09 at 85K, only possible with trade-in -- even one year ago the best price on a new ACR was 93K (and that was an '09) (you know, when the economy did drop off a cliff).

-J

 

[Swanny]

So, as a potential buyer, and after reading all of the above, is it reasonable to expect a new '09 ACR to sell at invoice (or even slightly lower) and with the 0% financing? PM me if you'd rather not share online.

Is the 0% for 48 months? How much down?

 

[BlknBlu]

Yellow32,

Excellent post. I agree with every point you have made. I also like your taste in color.

Bruce

 

[Yellow32]

Here is something else to consider:

If you bought a USED ACR for $80,000 and got a loan at 8.5% over 4 years you would pay a total of $94650. If you bought a NEW ACR for "invoice" of $97,000 at 0% over 4 years you would pay "$97,000" and have a brand new car...think about that for a moment.

It is true some credit unions are currently offering 3.9% so, given the same conditions, you would pay $86,687 (or so) for the used $80,000 ACR, an $11,000 spread, still pretty good buy on the new one...

My point is, there is little reason to buy a used ACR when new ones are available at great prices right now.

Moderator Edit. Dealer reference removed, non site supporting dealer.

 

[Yellow32]

So, as a potential buyer, and after reading all of the above, is it reasonable to expect a new '09 ACR to sell at invoice (or even slightly lower) and with the 0% financing? PM me if you'd rather not share online.

Is the 0% for 48 months? How much down?

No reason for keeping this secret, yes, you can expect to buy a brand new 2009 at invoice or less

The 0% for 48 months is just that, does not matter what the car is priced at. As for what GMAC (the ones offering 0%) will require (down payment) that is based on their review of your credit and how much they will finance. I know for a fact that 100% financing is available (i.e. nothing down).

-J

Moderator Edit. Dealer removed again.

 

[ASPIRATIONS]

If July comes around and their are still 25 09 ACR's left would you pay the current invoice price they are going for now, I think not so why should they wait to drop them, do it now so the 10's can maintain some value. P.S. I said 85k for a 09...LOL.

No ,thats why you should buy NOW with the 0%,1.9% or 2.9% financing....Plus unless you want a specific combo I wouldnt wait.....Dodge did this to me in 08 when I ordered my 08 coupe and KILLED the values on resale...I was VERY LUCKY that I got 80K for my car while my buddy Dan just sold his Orange coupe for 60K its just bad for business!!!
You might see a rebate on SRT Coupes and Verts but if your looking for a rebate on the ACR Iam betting and hopeing it will not come....Note: in 08 Dodge DID NOT discount the ACR.......If it happens good for you but I think the dealers who have these cars should make that decision not Fi-Dodge...

PS If ANY dealer sells a NEW ACR for 85K they should get out of the business.

 

[Yellow32]

... I'm guessing their are over 100 unsold soon to be called "left over" 09's and they will have to and should put a 10k rebate on them to move them. ...

BTW, if that is true, that there are only 100 ACRs left "new" in dealer inventory then that is barely a 5 month supply and with the 2010s five months or more 'away', it goes to reason that most if not all 100 will be gone by July...(especially for the price sensitive folks as the 2010s will not likely be discounted nearly as much as the 2009s)

And, remember lots of the ACRs at dealers right now are in some great/crazy color combos, even red/silver stripes and tan leather interior (waay too many colors for me!) that are only now available. And I know some dealers have ordered crazy color combos for 2010s, so, if you see a color combo you like, get it, you may not even "see it" in a 2010 model.

There is still a small handful (less than 10 I believe) of 2009s ACRs not yet delivered to dealers...

As for investments, this isn't it, if you want an investment, buy a car that is already "fully depreciated" (like an older desirable Ferrari, F40, 280, etc).

-J

 

[compcoupe21]

Kevin, you say "bad for business", how do you define 14k off sticker and 0% financing? Tomball is getting hammered to float all that inventory not unlike any dealer carrying slow moving inventory, it's just money managing nothing more. Bottom line is that you can bet if they came out with a rebate the dealer would give it up if it meant moving a unit, no doubt about it. As far as the Corvette numbers are concerned the build #'s are not relevant, we have no idea if cars were stale on lots in the 60's but I'll bet you that over 50% of the units did not carry over to the next calender year and as you said yellow that was 22k vs. 260, see what I mean? If a builder built 200 identical houses in late 2008 and was still sitting on half of them today he'd be A)getting destroyed by the banks looking for their money and even if he owned it all liquid he be getting destroyed for having his money *******, so what dooes he do, he drops the price to move the units and B)he'd realize his "losses" (less profit) and make a business decision to sell his product.
All I'm trying to say is that the 09's are not worth 95-100, when they came out in late 08 yes, but not now!!

Moderator Edit. Dealer reference removed.

 

[dans69ss]

The only new ACR's that will still be around this summer will be the white one's with the single stripe. Sadly, 2010 will be the last model year for the Viper. As a result, Kevin and I will be forced to keep our cars.

 

[Yellow32]

Kevin, you say "bad for business", how do you define 14k off sticker and 0% financing? Tomball is getting hammered to float all that inventory not unlike any dealer carrying slow moving inventory, it's just money managing nothing more. Bottom line is that you can bet if they came out with a rebate the dealer would give it up if it meant moving a unit, no doubt about it. As far as the Corvette numbers are concerned the build #'s are not relevant, we have no idea if cars were stale on lots in the 60's but I'll bet you that over 50% of the units did not carry over to the next calender year and as you said yellow that was 22k vs. 260, see what I mean? If a builder built 200 identical houses in late 2008 and was still sitting on half of them today he'd be A)getting destroyed by the banks looking for their money and even if he owned it all liquid he be getting destroyed for having his money *******, so what dooes he do, he drops the price to move the units and B)he'd realize his "losses" (less profit) and make a business decision to sell his product.
All I'm trying to say is that the 09's are not worth 95-100, when they came out in late 08 yes, but not now!!

Little known 'fact', some dealers received '$2000 performance coupons' for their calendar year 2009 sales and can selectively apply those coupons (one per purchase) to any car they want. The dealers have a limited number of these coupons and can use them for any CJD product, not just Vipers. So, when you see under invoice pricing, those "limited edition" coupons could be in play to help bring the price down...don't count on that to last much longer.

And, something to be concerned about is all the intense deficit spending going on by the US Govt, the end effect could be run away inflation (or deflation), if inflation hits you'll be very happy with a purchase today and pay off your debt in "substantially less valuable" dollars later (i.e. save a ton).

-J

 

[compcoupe21]

Little known 'fact', some dealers received '$2000 performance coupons' for their calendar year 2009 sales and can selectively apply those coupons (one per purchase) to any car they want. The dealers have a limited number of these coupons and can use them for any CJD product, not just Vipers. So, when you see under invoice pricing, those "limited edition" coupons could be in play to help bring the price down...don't count on that to last much longer.

And, something to be concerned about is all the intense deficit spending going on by the US Govt, the end effect could be run away inflation (or deflation), if inflation hits you'll be very happy with a purchase today and pay off your debt in "substantially less valuable" dollars later (i.e. save a ton).

-J

Thanks yellow for proving my point, tissue on a 109k car is about 100, less holdback and the 2k equals about 95. I'm sure the dealer also gets volume money or some other spif but as I said it's Feb. 2010 and they want out of these cars, time will continue to depreciate them even if new! Your point is well taken regarding the cost of money. Dan