2009 vs. 2010

[ASPIRATIONS]

Thanks yellow for proving my point, tissue on a 109k car is about 100, less holdback and the 2k equals about 95. I'm sure the dealer also gets volume money or some other spif but as I said it's Feb. 2010 and they want out of these cars, time will continue to depreciate them even if new! Your point is well taken regarding the cost of money. Dan

Dan,
Why dont you buy that ACR and swap the red interior with my black and I will give you 1,500.00...See you will be saving even more
Bottom line is that all Vipers once off the lot drop like a stone so maybe the best idea is to buy a used one even high priced exotics are taking a hit.
In your case just wait it out since your not in a big hurry to own

 

[Paul Hawker]

Here's another way to look at it.

With the 0% financing on the 09's going away in less than 3 weeks (March 1st), and some discounting close to invoice, I predict a bunch of the 09's will be sold before the end of the month. These buyers will grab the colors of their choice, and buy the 09's at much lower prices than they could get the '10's.

With the supply of best colors left over 09's drying up, others will grab the available 2010's with a scramble as fewer and fewer of the popular choices are available.

Then I suspect the last of the 2010's in unpopular colors will be picked off one by one at discount prices close to invoice.

Then people on the fence will realize that the chance of a lifetime will have passed them bye. Just as the winged warriors like the HEMI superbirds and Daytonas sat on the lots in the 70"s, unloved for years, the time will come when we look at each other, and realize we lived in a time that 600 horsepower cars could be bought for $0 down and 0% interest and lament the passing of an era.

In other words...bottom fishing only works well when there are lots of fish.

 

[Yellow32]

Here's another way to look at it.

With the 0% financing on the 09's going away in less than 3 weeks (March 1st), and some discounting close to invoice, I predict a bunch of the 09's will be sold before the end of the month. These buyers will grab the colors of their choice, and buy the 09's at much lower prices than they could get the '10's.

With the supply of best colors left over 09's drying up, others will grab the available 2010's with a scramble as fewer and fewer of the popular choices are available.

Then I suspect the last of the 2010's in unpopular colors will be picked off one by one at discount prices close to invoice.

Then people on the fence will realize that the chance of a lifetime will have passed them bye. Just as the winged warriors like the HEMI super bees sat on the lots in the 70"s, unloved for years, the time will come when we look at each other, and realize we lived in a time that 600 horsepower cars could be bought for $0 down and 0% interest and lament the passing of an era.

In other words...bottom fishing only works well when there are lots of fish.

Quite astute sir!

Little hisssstory from me:

I first started the ACR hunt in Oct 2008 (great time, 'eh?), back then, fully loaded best price I found was $102K. Then come January 2009, $93K. Then the threat of Viper completely going away (Dodge could not sell Viper to anyone and Viper was going bankrupt), so prices went back up. Then the factory started making new ACRs, it was months before any showed up at dealers. Prices 'started' just above invoice and now have 'bottomed out' and I think the trough has passed (for a second time). But, this time, we have a 'hard stop', Viper production ceases later this year, there will definitely be no more supply. Time to pick and choose is now, it will never get any better than this. And when that last 'solid color' ACR sells for $100K you'll be out of luck. (I say 'solid color' as those appear to be the least popular, although that red+silver stripe + tan leather w/black offset interior car could be the 'pick of the litter', a special owner will be looking for that car).

-J

 

[jmillsUT28]

If you are thinking about buying and will be getting financing then I would suggest buying now and take advantage of the 0%. As I see inflation is going to hit soon once Bernanke starts messing around with the rates. Might never see 0% again.... Now if you are paying cash then forget my post...

 

[ZO6 WHO]

I just went through this same analysis and decided it better to buy a 2009 ACR than a 2010. Following was my thinking:

1. The 2010 is virtually the same car--slight differences, possibly worth a little, but not much. Ask yourself how much you would pay for a 2009 (with 2009 specs) versus a 2009 (with 2010 specs). $1k, maybe $2k? I can't see much more for the slight differences.

2. The 2010s are not available right now, and probably won't be for many months.

3. When the 2010s are available, because of the low production numbers (370 on all 2010 Vipers?), and no new ones coming in 2011 (at least), there will be NO reason for the dealers to discount them. Therefore, they will likely be selling for what, $10k more than the 2009s?

4. There is NO reason to believe you will be able to buy a 2010 at 0%. Depending on the rate you can get, that alone could be worth another $10k+ (in addition to the price of the car).

5. As for "future value," I don't see the 2010s as being worth significantly more than the 2009s. Last year of the model. So what? So were the 2002s for the RT-10s and GTS. So was 2006 for the Gen. IIIs. Are they worth significantly (any) more than the 2001s or 2005s? I don't see it. If you think so, I have a 2006 SRT-10 Coupe for sale right now--give me a call (816-225-6060). I'm happy to put you in a "final year" car (for the Gen. III) for only $20k more than you can buy a similar 2005 (I know they didn't make coupes in 05, but you get my point).

I could have bought either (or both), and certainly thought about waiting and buying a 2010 ACR but, in the end, I decided it made more sense to buy a 2009 ACR.

As for that car . . . I should get it tomorrow or Friday!! Can't wait!

 

[Martin]

Buyer psychology is something that I find really interesting. I'm a contrarian by design, and anytime I see a vast majority of people saying something is too expensive and should be cheaper, even though it goes against historical norms, I figure it's a good time to buy. It's when products (real estate, cars, stocks, etc.) are way over historical prices and people are clammoring to buy them that I stay away. Right now reminds me of the early and mid seventies when we were in the gas crunch and everyone was buying econoboxes. I remember looking at a Mercedes 6.9 that the dealership marked down to an insanly low price and nobody would buy it because it got 12 MPG - and then Merc discontinued that car after a really short run. Whoever bought those things got some great deals and now have a serious classic. Same goes with all the muscle cars. Times do change fast, and if you love these cars, get one if you want one. If you don't love them, don't bother...

 

[Yellow32]

I just went through this same analysis and decided it better to buy a 2009 ACR than a 2010. Following was my thinking:

...

5. As for "future value," I don't see the 2010s as being worth significantly more than the 2009s. Last year of the model. So what? So were the 2002s for the RT-10s and GTS. So was 2006 for the Gen. IIIs. Are they worth significantly (any) more than the 2001s or 2005s? I don't see it. If you think so, I have a 2006 SRT-10 Coupe for sale right now--give me a call (816-225-6060). I'm happy to put you in a "final year" car (for the Gen. III) for only $20k more than you can buy a similar 2005 (I know they didn't make coupes in 05, but you get my point).

Very good point, "spot on" regarding Vipers. Heck, '06 was the last year the motor was 'open' for anything you wanted to do with it (vs. GenIV motor being more 'locked down' as far as mods). Vipers are all in all a very limited production car, so that alone probably indicates why there is apparently no resale premium for any of the years, outside the '98 GTS-R/GT2 cars.

BTW: CONGRATS on the new SSG ACR!

-J

 

[Jerry Dobson]

Originally dealers could not stock Vipers. All cars were ordered for customers. Effectively dealers should not be sitting on inventory and discounting cars and killing the new and used market. What ever happened to that plan?

 

[Yellow32]

Originally dealers could not stock Vipers. All cars were ordered for customers. Effectively dealers should not be sitting on inventory and discounting cars and killing the new and used market. What ever happened to that plan?

I believe zee Germans (DC) removed that process around the introduction of the GenIII...

 

[Martin]

I remember in '96 when it was easier to buy a race version of the GTS than it was to get a street version... I must have gone to a dozen dealers with cash in hand, and ONE dealer took a deposit on an order. A week later I got a curt letter from the dealer saying he couldn't accept my deposit because he couldn't secure the car. I was pissed. Now the dealerships are almost paying people to take the cars off their hands and people are trying to get better deals? These Gen IV cars are SO MUCH better in so many ways than the Gen II cars, yet for whatever bizarre reason, people aren't buying. Now's when I want to pick up a few of them to play with - they're cheap enough that I could have one for daily driving, one for looking at in my garage (my GTS Blue ACR - what a beaut), and one for tracking. Bizarre times we live in. It's like when you're in college and you're surrounded by beautiful women who are all your same age, are smart and ambitious, have similar interests, yet you blow them off to hang out with the guys and drink beer and complain about how you should have gone to a different school with better looking girls. One day you look back and realize that it was a once-in-a-lifetime thing, you had it great, and you kick yourself for not seizing the moment.

 

[Goehner]

From my perspective, there are a lot of Vipers for sale right now in comparison to production numbers. Couple that with the crappy economy and the buying pool shrinking, and you have depressed values. Supply and demand RULE.

I do agree that the inflation risk is pretty severe at this point. However, all the forecasting that I have seen points to a deepening recession, more layoffs, and the economy taking a step back.

Obviously most on this board want to keep values higher as they are Viper owners. My crystal ball is broken so my future forecast for Viper values in the short run is blurry.

As an "enthusiast," if I wanted to buy, I would buy in the next 6 months. However, I am still over-analyzing Challenger vs. Viper. Yea, I know, pretty easy on this forum. But I have 3 kids under 8, and I like taking all of them out for a wild ass pedal to the metal experience from time to time.

 

[bluesrt]

i think the clowns of the fly by need to study all these things before putting them up for sale--its just a money thing(leave some things well enough alone) as to its gonna bite them in the ass.. its possible to make these all possible but they are too quick on the throttle to produce.. they need to mule them for more miles.like a lot of miles.but greed gets them-to shuv n it through to quick. slow down clown....too bad no honest vets gets to have a throw in the desighn.. cause if they did did we would not have a ton of- well maybe we need a re-flash? or a come back-- com on we had a rocket in the 60,s..

 

[Yellow32]

i think the clowns of the fly by need to study all these things before putting them up for sale--its just a money thing(leave some things well enough alone) as to its gonna bite them in the ass.. its possible to make these all possible but they are too quick on the throttle to produce.. they need to mule them for more miles.like a lot of miles.but greed gets them-to shuv n it through to quick. slow down clown....too bad no honest vets gets to have a throw in the desighn.. cause if they did did we would not have a ton of- well maybe we need a re-flash? or a come back-- com on we had a rocket in the 60,s..

Filmore, is that you?

 

[Martin]

i think the clowns of the fly by need to study all these things before putting them up for sale--its just a money thing(leave some things well enough alone) as to its gonna bite them in the ass.. its possible to make these all possible but they are too quick on the throttle to produce.. they need to mule them for more miles.like a lot of miles.but greed gets them-to shuv n it through to quick. slow down clown....too bad no honest vets gets to have a throw in the desighn.. cause if they did did we would not have a ton of- well maybe we need a re-flash? or a come back-- com on we had a rocket in the 60,s..

Brother, you remind me of that guy on King of the Hill that always has mindful and meaningful things to say but I can't understand a damn thing he's saying until I've listened to him five or six times

 

[ASPIRATIONS]

i think the clowns of the fly by need to study all these things before putting them up for sale--its just a money thing(leave some things well enough alone) as to its gonna bite them in the ass.. its possible to make these all possible but they are too quick on the throttle to produce.. they need to mule them for more miles.like a lot of miles.but greed gets them-to shuv n it through to quick. slow down clown....too bad no honest vets gets to have a throw in the desighn.. cause if they did did we would not have a ton of- well maybe we need a re-flash? or a come back-- com on we had a rocket in the 60,s..

Put the bottle down,lol.....Boomhower

 

[Martin]

Put the bottle down,lol.....Boomhower

Boomhower - that's the name I was trying to remember

 

[Danno]

It's like when you're in college and you're surrounded by beautiful women who are all your same age, are smart and ambitious, have similar interests, yet you blow them off to hang out with the guys and drink beer and complain about how you should have gone to a different school with better looking girls. One day you look back and realize that it was a once-in-a-lifetime thing, you had it great, and you kick yourself for not seizing the moment.

My favorite Analogy yet! regarding the current opportunity we have.

Also Z06 Who, Congrats on the car and cant wait to see it!

 

[99 R/T 10]

Very good point, "spot on" regarding Vipers. Heck, '06 was the last year the motor was 'open' for anything you wanted to do with it (vs. GenIV motor being more 'locked down' as far as mods). Vipers are all in all a very limited production car, so that alone probably indicates why there is apparently no resale premium for any of the years, outside the '98 GTS-R/GT2 cars.

BTW: CONGRATS on the new SSG ACR!

-J

Hey Yellow,
Been reading your post and I can say, you are spot on with just about everything.

The only thing you need to do now is change your "handle" to Blue32..............

 

[crazyspeed]

i think the clowns of the fly by need to study all these things before putting them up for sale--its just a money thing(leave some things well enough alone) as to its gonna bite them in the ass.. its possible to make these all possible but they are too quick on the throttle to produce.. they need to mule them for more miles.like a lot of miles.but greed gets them-to shuv n it through to quick. slow down clown....too bad no honest vets gets to have a throw in the desighn.. cause if they did did we would not have a ton of- well maybe we need a re-flash? or a come back-- com on we had a rocket in the 60,s..

Is it the Johnny Walker? or?? why does this make sense to me? Read this real fast or real slow and it makes sense...I swear

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

History is a great teacher. And the Corvette analogy is wrong, and I'm one of those Corvette guys as well. NCRS #1256. 62 is not valued significantly higher than than 61. 56 not more than 53. 73 not more than 68, etc, etc. The 67 stupidity is all about that color matched 427 hood stinger. Look at a 65 or 66 small block vs. a 67 small block and the price difference is completely insignificant.
Indeed the Corvette analogy might lead you to believe the FIRST year is the best investment. 53, 63 for example.

Now to current history...Check the date the Ford GT was discontinued, check the MSRP at the time. Now go look up what Ford GT's are selling for now.

They made 2000 Ford GT's, there will be approximately 600-700 Gen 4 ACR's produced FOR ALL YEARS. Do the math, 2-3 years from now it will not matter a bit what the year was. 08, 09, or 10. Indeed first year 08 might come out better long term.
My Barrett Jackson prediction. First ACR off the line was Ralph Gilles, Voodoo paint colors two years before Voodoo edition came out.
Second car off the line will do well too as it will be the first regular production sold order to outside customer.

Anyone who wants an ACR and is not jumping all over the 0% financing thing is crazy.
Thinking it needs to be discounted to 85K is even nuttier, do the math on the financing as others on the thread have.
And for those who normally pay cash...... that's what you are doing, no interest, every payment is going to principal. Why not use Dodge's money.

And to those who think the 2010's will be discounted much......I talk to these dealers when I renew their support here. I think they actually plan to make a good profit of these for a change, and they probably deserve to after some of the things that have happened with this market.

So run, don't walk to get that 09 deal.

 

[Twister]

If I could sell my 2003 srt10 and 91 nsx today I would buy a 2010 tomorrow

not a 2009...

The bottom line is that the viper is gone..And we dont know if it's coming back...

And besides the possibility of financial superiority their is the first of it's kind/last of it's kind prestige factor


I love when people ask about my nsx with a genuine interest and I puff my chest out and exclaim how it's the origional 1991...

I love when people ask about my srt10 and I again puff out my chest and proudly idnetify it as the first of the SRT10's...

With a 2010 ACR or vert or my personal prferance if I can sell my two babies (a solid yellow 2010 coupe)...

When questioned I would take a dominating stance with my arms crossed and my voice an octive lower and my chest at maximun extension and proudly proclaim...

It's a 2010..The last of the Vipers...

First year or last year defiently has it's advantages over the mid years..I wouldnt enjoy it as much saying I had a 94 nsx or 2005 srt10..Verses haveing the first years..

Despite how awesome the deals are on 09's If i can sell them both you'll see me in a 2010

 

[CCBrian]

Do people here buy cars based on resale value or just drive the wheels off them like I do. Who cares what year you have or what its worth-go DRIVE IT! I will be dead before they are truely collectable-I'm not saving my cars for anyone.

 

[Art 138]

Do people here buy cars based on resale value or just drive the wheels off them like I do. Who cares what year you have or what its worth-go DRIVE IT! I will be dead before they are truely collectable-I'm not saving my cars for anyone.

I don't think its the collectable value or saving Jane syndome,but to some having the last year provides that exclusiviity of ownership experience. These are uncertain times and uncertain markets provide for speculative buying......money to some is fungilble and maybe they are happier with the car sitting in their living room.....I say do what makes you happy......drive every day in the rain and let her rust away or use it in good weather.....

 

[bigdeep1]

The bottom line is that the viper is gone..And we dont know if it's coming back...

I know specifics have not been given on the 2012, but as of now aren't things still a "GO" for the Gen V Viper??

 

[PaViper]

Do people here buy cars based on resale value or just drive the wheels off them like I do. Who cares what year you have or what its worth-go DRIVE IT! I will be dead before they are truely collectable-I'm not saving my cars for anyone.

Precisely, I don't buy my cars for the next guy, I buy them for me. The first three Vipers I purchased were all numbered vehicles, but with between 8000 and 11000 miles on each of them, they weren't what a collector would be looking for. I don't buy them so I can sell them 20 years later with dry-rotted tires and 50 miles on them, I buy them because I want to them

 

[swexlin]

What Carmen said! I'll most likely be 6 feet under before either my Superbee or Viper will be at Barrett Jackson! I bought these cars to DRIVE and enjoy! I had pretty much this very conversation with the owner of a pretty rare '96 GTS White w/blue stripes at a show today.

Live today (and plan for the future), because life passes quickly.

 

[tcsracing1]

the 2010 ACR has shorter 5th gear,better down force and less drag. Will beat the GT2RS on the ring.

the 2009 ACR is great too, especially if you will never notice the difference in gearing compared to 2010.

dont expect prices to drop soon on either model years as these things are no longer made.

the 2010 is final year, thus worth full pop to buy new. (if you can afford it)

same goes for anybody buying an X. worth full price new.