2ND ANNUAL NJ / NY AUTOX CHALLENGE!!

[Andrew2KRT10]

Hey Ben, I hope you're not piss*d off with me. I really appreciate your tips and you had the better run than me, no doubt, but I have to be happy about going out there.

AC

 

[bwagman]

Hey Ben, I hope you're not piss*d off with me. I really appreciate your tips and you had the better run than me, no doubt, but I have to be happy about going out there.

AC

Andrew,

The rules pertaining to this event were not in any way made clear to the competitors prior to the competition. The only thing which I was exposed to was the registration flyer. It was only at the driver’s meeting, the day of the actual event that those in charge informed those competing of the criteria to go to Detroit. Had I been informed prior to, or had it been noted on the flyer, I would have instantly become a VCA member. In fact, immediately following the driver’s meeting I was ready to hand over the $100 for membership in order to be eligible for Detroit. I was told the paperwork was unavailable, but not to worry, and that when I got home to go online, print out the form, and send it in, but just to do it “as soon as possible”. This was a clear indication that things were okay, and needless to say, I was relieved and went on with the competition. Throughout the day, I was confronted and joked with about how I need to become a VCA member. In fact I remember specifically saying while in my car “I think I’m going to become a member”, and the response “well… now you’ll have to become a member if you want to go Detroit.” In fact, this occurred right after my second official timed run where I was actually beating Tom H (although Tom quickly answered back with his fastest run). Smiles, high fives, and handshakes across the board, with no indication of me losing out, a truly great day! Now imagine my shock when the next morning I go to check the forum to see if the results were posted and find out I was not going to Detroit! WOW, what class to not even notify me prior to this posting! BTW, early Monday morning I officially became a member of VCA the whole process took 5 minutes and later that day I had my VCA membership number, and still that was not good enough.

Ben

 

[99t1]

I feel for you Ben, I too thought I was eligible based on the flyer..."Top 2 drivers"....no mention of anything else. After the morning practice times were posted, they made the lunch announcement "Members in good standing only"...which I took as a response directly toward me...Scott and I joked about how I could become a member again.

So it goes...

You did great and I'm sure you are proud of your times regardless of the trip.

Tom and Andrew will prevail over SRT this year!!!

Morgan

 

[bwagman]

I feel for you Ben, I too thought I was eligible based on the flyer..."Top 2 drivers"....no mention of anything else. After the morning practice times were posted, they made the lunch announcement "Members in good standing only"...which I took as a response directly toward me...Scott and I joked about how I could become a member again.

So it goes...

You did great and I'm sure you are proud of your times regardless of the trip.

Tom and Andrew will prevail over SRT this year!!!

Morgan

Hi Morgan,

Nice to meet you again. Interesting detail. At first I was under the impression that this rule was mentioned during the morning MANDATORY driver's meeting. But now I can picture the atmosphere was in fact during lunch by the tent and not by the car where the first meeting was earlier that morning. In any event, A rule like this which can and did impact multiple drivers should not be overlooked and should have been mentioned at the morning MANDATORY driver's meeting and not at lunch where people are wondering about socializing and doing whatever, one can easily miss these details by being occupied with something else. Perhaps it was overlooked and slipped the minds of those speaking during the morning meeting or perhaps there was some other reason which may or may not have had to do with the times posted during the practice sessions.

again, thanks for the compliment

Ben

 

[99t1]

"MANDATORY"...I was late to the driver's meeting...so maybe they did mention it then??? Personally...I would have stayed home if I knew my efforts would not help NY/CT toward the cup. I even had my Tator's Stickers!!!

Regardless, Mr. Roeller and NJ did another great event and I guess NJ and especially you, gave NY/CT's drivers a wake up call for next year.

Morgan

 

[bwagman]

"MANDATORY"...I was late to the driver's meeting...so maybe they did mention it then??? Personally...I would have stayed home if I knew my efforts would not help NY/CT toward the cup. I even had my Tator's Stickers!!!

Regardless, Mr. Roeller and NJ did another great event and I guess NJ and especially you, gave NY/CT's drivers a wake up call for next year.

Morgan

Morgan you are right, the event was put together well. The flow was good, the food was great, and I enjoyed the company. The NJSCCA crew did a fantastic job getting those who have never autocrossed on track and up to speed. I think this type of event is definitely a great experience for anyone who has an interest in racing. It's safe, fun and cheap (usually $30 - $40 for either an SCCA or Motorsports NE event). No contention there. Any time there is an event that involves risk, competition, etc., there is always a driver's meeting prior to, and this must, and always is mandatory. There are liability issues and therefore it is important that all competitors are aware of the rules, guidelines, expectations, safety issues, etc. This is where all competitors are notified of anything that has a direct and important affect/impact on the competition and the "rule" in question was not stated until a couple hours later which happened to be during lunch. Again, thanks for the compliment, I would like to see a next year with you and the others, but right now I don't see myself part of any future competitions or gatherings. Unless, this situation is made right and that means the powers in charge make a concession and grant me the trip to Detroit as it should be, then NJ will have to find someone else to get the coveted Venom Cup into their possession.

 

[Andrew2KRT10]

Ben:

I don't know what else to say. I can fully understand the disappointment. I was there at the driver's meeting and to be honest, I didn't pick up on what you heard. I guess I was just to anxious to get out on the track.

I've been a member since 2000. I never asked where the dues were going. I never questioned being a member, rather I was proud to be a member. I've paid my dues every year when lots of other guys only found reasons to complain about how the Viper magazine s*cks and Dodge doesn't do this and Dodge doesn't do that. Bunch of cry babies if you ask me. Like the $100 is going to break anyone. 7 years = $700 I've put in for all that I've enjoyed over those years. Now it's all paid off and I have an opportunity to do something for which I am GREATLY appreciative.

I don't consider me getting this opportunity on just a technicality. It's not like I was 3-5 seconds slower. I was only 5/10ths of a second away from taking second. That could have been my tire presure, one turn, or one slide. You are very good, no doubt. I give you credit and I hope I can beat you next year on better terms. I have great respect for you and Tom, but I can't be anything less than happy for the chance to go to Detroit.

AC

 

[Andrew2KRT10]

Tell you one thing. Between now and Sept, all I can think about is how to improve and how to beat those guys. I don't care how many times they've been around thier own track. Hey Tom, I think we need to buy all the SRT guys drinks the night before.

AC

AC

 

[Jerz Viper]

Ben,Morgan

I specifically mentioned being a member in good standing at the Morning Drivers meeting and lunch, just before the timed session. It didn't slip my mind, it slipped your selective hearing(Ben). When I mentioned it the second time, it wasn't while people were socializing as you put it, I personally went over to anyone who wasn't at the tent and told them we were going to have another drivers meeting at 12:45 pm under the tent. You came over to me right after the morning meeting and then asked me if you could join today. Should I list all the people that heard that for you? You had plenty of time to become a member, seeing that you signed up for the event many months before. You didn't have to be a member for the Venom Cup, just a Viper owner with his or her Viper.
As for your comment about making it right, we did, and that's why long time "member in good standing" Andrew Cinque is going. What you're saying is give me the lottery ticket, if I win, then I'll pay for it....

Morgan, you participated in this event last year and were well aware of the rules. You must be driving a Viper for the VENOM CUP, that's why you shared Andrews car last year for the timed session. It's a "Viper" Club event.

The rules for the Venom Cup and the National AutoX Competition only differ in your VCA status. The Venom Cup was put together to have fun between the NJVCA and NY/CT VCA. We put it together so our families could enjoy a day out, and get to meet the other club members. This black cloud you are trying to create is unjust and simply put, unwarranted.

Ben and Morgan, You are welcome to voice your opinion, but please keep to the facts!

 

[bwagman]

Ben,Morgan

I specifically mentioned being a member in good standing at the Morning Drivers meeting and lunch, just before the timed session. It didn't slip my mind, it slipped your selective hearing(Ben). When I mentioned it the second time, it wasn't while people were socializing as you put it, I personally went over to anyone who wasn't at the tent and told them we were going to have another drivers meeting at 12:45 pm under the tent. You came over to me right after the morning meeting and then asked me if you could join today. Should I list all the people that heard that for you? You had plenty of time to become a member, seeing that you signed up for the event many months before. You didn't have to be a member for the Venom Cup, just a Viper owner with his or her Viper.
As for your comment about making it right, we did, and that's why long time "member in good standing" Andrew Cinque is going. What you're saying is give me the lottery ticket, if I win, then I'll pay for it....

Morgan, you participated in this event last year and were well aware of the rules. You must be driving a Viper for the VENOM CUP, that's why you shared Andrews car last year for the timed session. It's a "Viper" Club event.

The rules for the Venom Cup and the National AutoX Competition only differ in your VCA status. The Venom Cup was put together to have fun between the NJVCA and NY/CT VCA. We put it together so our families could enjoy a day out, and get to meet the other club members. This black cloud you are trying to create is unjust and simply put, unwarranted.

Ben and Morgan, You are welcome to voice your opinion, but please keep to the facts!

Bob,

This is not an issue of “selective hearing”, my hearing is fine. The driver’s meeting in the morning dealt with technicalities and was primarily run by Perry and the SCCA guys and not you or Tom . They both were doing the majority of the speaking. This meeting dealt with safety issues and run group organizations, the stuff that the SCCA crew is concerned with. This was the meeting where we stood by Perry’s car and checked our run groups which I believe were posted on his driver side rear window. There was absolutely NO mentioning of being a VCA member for Detroit eligibility. It was only after the practices sessions and during lunch that this important piece of information was made clear. And then I immediately approached you. Nobody, NOBODY approached me, not before not after! And then I find out the next day the results. Wow, what a way to deal with this situation. But this is not even the point of contention…it is what was said to me after I confronted you and during the competition that has created this “black cloud” you mentioned that along with the point that the advance notification of the rules were completely absent.

Everyone, I have spoken too both on this forum public and private (because I did receive some I’ms since I posted) have all agreed that I got the raw end of the deal (to put it lightly). In fact, many of the SCCA guys who helped the VCA club run the event have acknowledged this as well.

I have gone into this with an open mind. If I didn’t feel I have a case, I wouldn’t have spent the hours upon hours already on this (and it’s only been 4 days since the event). It would have been dropped. I have only dealt with the facts, and have not embellished my frustration. What happened is EXACTLY as I say. I am seeking a positive solution/outcome and that is for me to be allowed to go to Detroit. I am an honest person. I am not one to create a whoohaa. I appreciate the time and effort VCA has put into this event. I am part of the Motorsports Northeast club, and I understand the time and planning necessary for such events as I do this as well. Needless to say it’s a lot! However, I also know that it is equally important to deal responsibly and effectively with a situation whenever one may arise so that all parties involved are content. How I have been dealt with by you through or communications is another story…

Ben

 

[Jerz Viper]

Ben,

I'm not going to get into a shoving match with you, I know what I said and did, and so do alot of people.

The people who are going to Detroit are
Member's in Good Standing :
Tom Hayden And Andrew Cinque

End of story.

Have a nice day!

Bob

 

[99t1]

Hi Bobby,

You wrote:
"Morgan, you participated in this event last year and were well aware of the rules. You must be driving a Viper for the VENOM CUP, that's why you shared Andrews car last year for the timed session. It's a "Viper" Club event."

I'm sorry Bobby, I must have overlooked them..were these "rules" on the entry form last year? They were not on it this year and they were not on any pre-event post in this thread.

Your event flyer and a few posts in this thread by Tom state: "The top 2 drivers from this event..." You have an "Open Class" listed for this event at http://www.njviperclub.com/events.htm so I don't think it's a stretch for anyone to think that if they are a participant IN THE EVENT that they might be eligible as one of the top 2 drivers FROM the event.

Last year I also entered the event with the Stohr but a few weeks before when it became apparent that the motor would not be ready in time, Andrew was kind enough to share his car with me...THIS is why I shared Andrews car.

Again...I only stated that had I known in advance that my time would not help NY/CT I would not have participated.

Again...I also stated that your event was great.

Pretty simple...no black cloud...now for some fun: http://www.teamjamoto.com/dixeregionpage.htm

 

[PDCjonny]

Guess you should have joined the VCA long ago and avoided the issue? (A whole hundred bucks.) You chose not to.
It was a VCA sponsored event.
That was no secret.
Really can't see you have anyone to blame but yourself.
Stop crying.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

I am seeking a positive solution/outcome and that is for me to be allowed to go to Detroit.

Good morning! I have been following this saga and wanted to weigh in as the National Treasurer - you know, the guy that writes the checks to pay for those Detroit trips.

Every other year (non-VOI years), Detroit plays host to the "SRT vs. VCA" autocross. The key here is VERY, very simple: SRT vs. VCA. Not "SRT vs. Viper Owners", not "SRT vs. Stohr", and not "SRT vs. the World". It is STRICTLY limited to VCA members. No exceptions, period. The Venom Cup is a different event altogether and the NJ/NY clubs set the rules for that. The Detroit trip is a National event and only VCA members are invited to participate on behalf of the VCA team as drivers. No exceptions, ever.

As for this particular situation, Ben was not a VCA member when the event took place. From my distant perspective, it doesn't matter who said what or when they said it - our records for that date do not have Ben listed as a member. So even if Bob made some reversal of the decision (doesn't seem likely), National would not support that reversal. The rules are VERY strict for this event: VCA members are the only ones allowed to compete - and both Tom & Andrew were VCA members during the qualifier. Anything less would be a disservice to those that have faithfully paid their membership dues year after year - regardless of whether a free trip was even possible.

And in honor of this thread, I added some new smilies to the forum:
Let's not any more and please realize that .



Good luck to Tom & Andrew, as well as the rest of Team VCA. Somebody please beat the ringers from SRT this year - the club trophy shelf is getting dusty...

 

[Andrew2KRT10]

Don't worry. That trophy will be shakin in the SRT showcase when NY gets there.

AC

 

[DodgeViper01]

Good morning! I have been following this saga and wanted to weigh in as the National Treasurer - you know, the guy that writes the checks to pay for those Detroit trips.

Every other year (non-VOI years), Detroit plays host to the "SRT vs. VCA" autocross. The key here is VERY, very simple: SRT vs. VCA. Not "SRT vs. Viper Owners", not "SRT vs. Stohr", and not "SRT vs. the World". It is STRICTLY limited to VCA members. No exceptions, period. The Venom Cup is a different event altogether and the NJ/NY clubs set the rules for that. The Detroit trip is a National event and only VCA members are invited to participate on behalf of the VCA team as drivers. No exceptions, ever.

As for this particular situation, Ben was not a VCA member when the event took place. From my distant perspective, it doesn't matter who said what or when they said it - our records for that date do not have Ben listed as a member. So even if Bob made some reversal of the decision (doesn't seem likely), National would not support that reversal. The rules are VERY strict for this event: VCA members are the only ones allowed to compete - and both Tom & Andrew were VCA members during the qualifier. Anything less would be a disservice to those that have faithfully paid their membership dues year after year - regardless of whether a free trip was even possible.

And in honor of this thread, I added some new smilies to the forum:
Let's not any more and please realize that .



Good luck to Tom & Andrew, as well as the rest of Team VCA. Somebody please beat the ringers from SRT this year - the club trophy shelf is getting dusty...

Love the new smilies.

 

[bwagman]

Good morning! I have been following this saga and wanted to weigh in as the National Treasurer - you know, the guy that writes the checks to pay for those Detroit trips.

Every other year (non-VOI years), Detroit plays host to the "SRT vs. VCA" autocross. The key here is VERY, very simple: SRT vs. VCA. Not "SRT vs. Viper Owners", not "SRT vs. Stohr", and not "SRT vs. the World". It is STRICTLY limited to VCA members. No exceptions, period. The Venom Cup is a different event altogether and the NJ/NY clubs set the rules for that. The Detroit trip is a National event and only VCA members are invited to participate on behalf of the VCA team as drivers. No exceptions, ever.

As for this particular situation, Ben was not a VCA member when the event took place. From my distant perspective, it doesn't matter who said what or when they said it - our records for that date do not have Ben listed as a member. So even if Bob made some reversal of the decision (doesn't seem likely), National would not support that reversal. The rules are VERY strict for this event: VCA members are the only ones allowed to compete - and both Tom & Andrew were VCA members during the qualifier. Anything less would be a disservice to those that have faithfully paid their membership dues year after year - regardless of whether a free trip was even possible.

And in honor of this thread, I added some new smilies to the forum:
Let's not any more and please realize that .



Good luck to Tom & Andrew, as well as the rest of Team VCA. Somebody please beat the ringers from SRT this year - the club trophy shelf is getting dusty...

Hello Sir, (sorry didn’t see your name on the post anywhere),

How is one supposed to know the rules if they are not written? This is my point of contention. Any right minded person would have the same issue. Okay fine, VCA has these rules…okay then why are they not made public? The flyer for sure didn’t reflect them, nowhere on this thread were these rules reflected and they were not mentioned to the competitors prior to the event. The only time I heard this was half-way through the event, and was led to believe I would still be eligible. I know you and Bob are probably really good friends or at least you're both loyal VCA members, and I’m just a thorn in your side, but I promise you this is what was told to me and retold. In fact, the moment I got home from the event, I put the check in the mail and even emailed Bob thanking him for a wonderful event and letting him know that I followed through on membership. I would not just do this for the heck of it or for make believe. I WAS LED ON!

You also mention that this was a “qualifier”. Then there is a clear connection between the two events so therefore they are not so separate. Why would I be allowed to compete, why would any non member be allowed to compete in a VCA event and they weren’t allowed to qualify? Don’t you think this is an important rule that was left out of any written document and the fact that nobody takes responsibility is beyond me!
Come on, give me a break! You’re telling me that this doesn’t amount to anything??? How about false advertising, how about deception. How about being lied too. How about the wasted money and extreme tire wear among other wear and tear. How about the countless time spent on this. How about the aggravation! And not to mention being threatened by a VCA representative who said he would have me banned from VCA!


I agree, smiles are good, very good, but avoiding my concerns and not trying to resolve this is wrong and bad business. Since day one, I have tried to reach out to the powers incharge, but I have either been ignored or insulted.
Ben

 

[PDCjonny]

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[bwagman]

You must be registered for see images attach

WOW, that's funny! Yeah, this is what I want to be part of...great organization! How old are we? Yeah I know it's a public forum I guess there will always be those without any class who have too much time on their hands and do immature stuff like this! Nice Job, Buddy

p.s. a picture with some tears coming down would have been much better, perhaps an animated one kicking and screaming!

 

[Rolstar]

Ben,

This was a NJ AutoX event, that was open to Viper members / owners and non-viper owners. You didn't have to qualify for anything to participate in the event other than holding a valid driver's license and paying the registration fee.

We made it clear at the morning driver's meeting that you had to be a registered member of the VCA to be able to participate in the National Event. The same was again mentioned at lunch. At both times you had the opportunity to back out of the competition, very simple! There was no false advertising, deception or the ultimate plan to scam you out of $100. Hopefully you are an adult, and you make decisions everyday. You decided to participate, even though you knew you weren't a member. Enough said.

Everyone who ran their cars that day, ran them hard, burned rubber off their rims, used gas, etc.etc.etc, that's part of the game. Get over it! and move on. Maybe you'll have better luck at the next sponsored event, and you can shut us all up!!

 

[bwagman]

Ben,

This was a NJ AutoX event, that was open to Viper members / owners and non-viper owners. You didn't have to qualify for anything to participate in the event other than holding a valid driver's license and paying the registration fee.

We made it clear at the morning driver's meeting that you had to be a registered member of the VCA to be able to participate in the National Event. The same was again mentioned at lunch. At both times you had the opportunity to back out of the competition, very simple! There was no false advertising, deception or the ultimate plan to scam you out of $100. Hopefully you are an adult, and you make decisions everyday. You decided to participate, even though you knew you weren't a member. Enough said.

Everyone who ran their cars that day, ran them hard, burned rubber off their rims, used gas, etc.etc.etc, that's part of the game. Get over it! and move on. Maybe you'll have better luck at the next sponsored event, and you can shut us all up!!

Tom,

You seem like a nice person, you appeared sincere in your email to me about understanding my dissappointment. You and Bob did little talking at the early morning driver's meeting. This was handled primarily by Perry and the other SCCA crew, whatever you mentioned was not in any way related to eligability criteria or else I would have approached you right there and then. I maintain that this was first said at the lunch meeting where I immediatly approached Bob and then given reassurance. As far as getting over it, I'm a man of principle. I don't just roll over and give up as I know you and everyone else would like me to. Everyone, including yourself has acknowledged in one way or another, that I have a legitamate point. It's how this is being handled, how I've been treated, and how nobody is accepting responsibility for this that bothers me. It's not about $100, it's not even about Detroit. It's about being a man and taking responsibility! Not passing the buck, but rather saying Ben "you're right" we messed up. And this is not right, and regardless of what anyone writes on this forum I know inside you and others that in some way you believe I got shafted! I was a victim of poor planning on the part of VCA and VCA doesn't want to accept any responsiblity! If I knew ahead of time about criteria I would have instantly joined. Where was I supposed to get this information? I was led on to believe something that was not true, that I would be okay but just to register when I got home. Sorry Tom, but club politics are not my thing.

Ben

Ben

 

[Andrew2KRT10]

Hey Ben, I've been trying to keep quiet, but don't you think this is over now? If by some chance you came in third, would you have still gone home and sent in your membership or did you do it just to make sure you'd be on the flight to Detriot?

"Why would I be allowed to compete, why would any non member be allowed to compete in a VCA event and they weren’t allowed to qualify?"

Answer: TO HAVE FUN !!!!!

This event was open to Vipers, non-vipers, members and non members, and it's main goal was for everyone to have fun. That's always the main goal. FUN. It's a car club for God sakes, nothing more or less. The National Detroit thing was just the icing on the cake. To throw in all the BS about false advertising, and deception is really slapping those in the face who worked hard to make the event enjoyable. It was nobody's intention to deceive you. Sorry it's not a perfect world. Take it up with Judge Judy.

Enough already.

 

[bwagman]

Hey Ben, I've been trying to keep quiet, but don't you think this is over now? If by some chance you came in third, would you have still gone home and sent in your membership or did you do it just to make sure you'd be on the flight to Detriot?

"Why would I be allowed to compete, why would any non member be allowed to compete in a VCA event and they weren’t allowed to qualify?"

Answer: TO HAVE FUN !!!!!

This event was open to Vipers, non-vipers, members and non members, and it's main goal was for everyone to have fun. That's always the main goal. FUN. It's a car club for God sakes, nothing more or less. The National Detroit thing was just the icing on the cake. To throw in all the BS about false advertising, and deception is really slapping those in the face who worked hard to make the event enjoyable. It was nobody's intention to deceive you. Sorry it's not a perfect world. Take it up with Judge Judy.

Enough already.

Andrew you're 100% correct, these events should be for the FUN and for socializing element. I had a great time. We even BS'd. It was fun right up until I left. I know, how these things should run, I've hosted a bunch myself!

Now, don't forget just the other day you posted and understood my dissappointment. However, I refuse to just let those individuals pit this one on me as being my fault! So I should just accept that. I'm sure you wouldn't. Some people don't mind getting stepped on, and some do. I DO! Trust me, if I brought this to Judge Judy, I would likely be a wealthier person right now (although not by much).

Andrew, I don't have an issue with you. You seem like a good guy and competitor just as I am. Hey, you were the first one to register for this event. You were psyched, and couldn't wait to get out there. So had you gone through the same crap I'm dealing with right now, I'm sure you wouldn't have just brushed it off and forgotten about it. I understand there's this "brotherhood" of VCA members, but take a look at what I'm trying to say, read my posts...is it so wrong to want some justice? I'm not sorry that I have voiced my frusteration, so be it. I'm sure any one of you would have done the same had the tables been turned.

 

[Rolstar]

Ben,
I acknowledged your disappointment not a legitimate gripe. Since your first post on this thread on April 12, you had plenty of time to join the VCA and become a member. Why the urgency now, because you know you are wrong! Becoming a member after the fact does not make you a member the day of the event.
Did you come to event to help your fellow NJ members win back the cup as intended, or was it for personal reasons. If we picked you to go instead of Andrew how would that be politically correct. There is no injustice here, just sour grapes.

 

[PDCjonny]

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Andrew2KRT10]

Ben:

I absolutely feel your disappointment. Want to know something? I was also very disappointed. Why ? Casue I completely misunderstood what Bobby said during the meeting. I heard that the top two guys from each region were going to Detroit. I saw this event as hosting two regions; NY/CT and NJ. So throughout the whole thing, I'm thinking it was going to be me and Tom H, and you and the next guy in line from NJ.

Now, imagine my disappointment when I heard I was wrong.

AND THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I AM SAYING THIS !!!!

I never said a word to anyone. I never said anything to Bobby, or Tom R, or anyone !! I congratulated you and I kept my mouth shut and accepted it as my misunderstanding becasue I didn't want to seem like I was complaining. And it was my misunderstanding, not Bobby's nor Tom R.

So I do understand your disappointment, but I think it has to be written off as a misunderstanding that just didn't go your way. Nobody intended on this confusion. Next year you'll be a member, and we'll have another competition. I don't think anyone involved in this event from the organizers, to all us drivers mean to hurt or screw anyone. I think this event was full of good guys who had a good day and it is too bad that this whole issue came up.

Now here is another good one...... I just found out that my inlaws are having a 50th wedding anniversary party. When do you think that will be? September 29th !!! And where do you think it is being held, with catterers and the works? MY HOUSE !!!!!

And where will I be ??????

DETROIT !!!!!!!!!!!

Wow, sure will be a comfortable place in my house for a few months.

AC

 

[bwagman]

Ben,
I acknowledged your disappointment not a legitimate gripe. Since your first post on this thread on April 12, you had plenty of time to join the VCA and become a member. Why the urgency now, because you know you are wrong! Becoming a member after the fact does not make you a member the day of the event.
Did you come to event to help your fellow NJ members win back the cup as intended, or was it for personal reasons. If we picked you to go instead of Andrew how would that be politically correct. There is no injustice here, just sour grapes.

Nice spin Tom a true politician, I guess this is the VCA way! Way to actually be upfront about the rules in your first post on 3/26 or thereafter, but yet your post calls out to all Viper owners, you know where you say "AutoX for the Viper Enthusiast" you should have said for the VCA member. I guess we are all supposed to have special powers and know these hidden rules. I guess you VCA members like to ignore that little detail called RULES! Oh yeah, that's my fault for not knowing sorry. I mean after all, the flyer in which you posted had all the necessary information Remember, I wasn't the only one who was confused about this. Besides I attended the 1st Venom Autocross and I wasn't a member, so why should I have thought any differently of this event? Again, please direct me to where I can view the criteria for this event!

BTW, you acknowledged in your email that you needed to be fair to all concerened, how was that fairness directed at me ??? Wait, I remember, it wasn't, more like an "in your face"! I couldn't care less. As far as coming out to support NJ well, yes that was my intention, but it was also to win! I'm a competitor, and this is a competitive event, so kill me for wanting to win. I joked with all you guys and other VCA members that day about NJ winning, about going to Detroit and all that time NOT once did anyone approach me personally about not being eligable. Not even in the end after I took second did anyone say "hey look Ben, I want you to know..." Nope it was fill out the application and send it in. Do you know the moment I got home I filled out that form and before I put in in the mail I sent Bob an email thanking him (and you) and that I enjoyed the time today
Here's a copy...

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Hey Bob,

I had a great time today. The company was great, the competition was fun, and the food...well you can never go wrong with a BBQ! I'm glad I'll be joining the Viper world. I enjoyed hanging out with all of you guys.

I have one question, where do I send the completed membership application? Do I send it to you? Or, the Viper Headquarters address which if I'm correct is 26970 Haggerty RD, Farmington Hills, MI 48331.

Please also send my thanks to Tom for also putting on a great show!

-Ben Wagman

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This whole thing is Unbelievable and what's sad is how you are handling it.

 

[bwagman]

Ben:

I absolutely feel your disappointment. Want to know something? I was also very disappointed. Why ? Casue I completely misunderstood what Bobby said during the meeting. I heard that the top two guys from each region were going to Detroit. I saw this event as hosting two regions; NY/CT and NJ. So throughout the whole thing, I'm thinking it was going to be me and Tom H, and you and the next guy in line from NJ.

Now, imagine my disappointment when I heard I was wrong.

AND THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I AM SAYING THIS !!!!

I never said a word to anyone. I never said anything to Bobby, or Tom R, or anyone !! I congratulated you and I kept my mouth shut and accepted it as my misunderstanding becasue I didn't want to seem like I was complaining. And it was my misunderstanding, not Bobby's nor Tom R.

So I do understand your disappointment, but I think it has to be written off as a misunderstanding that just didn't go your way. Nobody intended on this confusion. Next year you'll be a member, and we'll have another competition. I don't think anyone involved in this event from the organizers, to all us drivers mean to hurt or screw anyone. I think this event was full of good guys who had a good day and it is too bad that this whole issue came up.

Now here is another good one...... I just found out that my inlaws are having a 50th wedding anniversary party. When do you think that will be? September 29th !!! And where do you think it is being held, with catterers and the works? MY HOUSE !!!!!

And where will I be ??????

DETROIT !!!!!!!!!!!

Wow, sure will be a comfortable place in my house for a few months.

AC

Andrew, I believe you and I just want to reiterate that it's not about money or Detroit, fine, I'm not going, but it would be nice to see those in charge treat me with a little more respect and courtesy by admitting they failed to provide everything we've been talking about. I was mislead Andrew, I went from a cool high to rock bottom when I saw that post the other day. Nobody is taking responsibility for this messup. This bothers me and the fact that I'm being blamed, attacked, and threatened just adds fuel to this fire! This was not handled professionally by those incharge, it has ballooned because some people do not have the ability to admit when they are wrong. Sorry Andrew, but this is more then just a small misunderstanding. Nevertheless, Good Luck to you and Tom in Detroit

 

[Andrew2KRT10]

Ben, you are way out of control and out of line. You're getting sarcastic and you're starting to sound as though everybody had to hold your hand through an explaination of the rules. Even if the rules were not 100% clear, is anything 100% ? You never ran into a similar issue or disagreement with any of the AX you organized?

Everything you do............. never any loose ends? Everybody is always happy ? If that's the case, then God bless, but I doubt it.

There doesn't seem to be any way to make you understand that it just didn't work out for you, with no bad intent on anyone's part. You're a great driver. I respect your skills. We all know that. You still have the better time. It was your choice not to be a member from earlier on; instead you waited till the last minute.

This thread should be closed. It's going nowhere.

AC

 

[Andrew2KRT10]

Ben, I don't think anybody is threatening you. I hope we can sit, have a drink sometime and put this away.

thanks for the good wishes. We'll need it.

Andrew