5th belt through seat cushion installation pic

[Tom F&L GoR]

Lots of discussion about seat belts and where to locate the 5th belt. Here's one way, through the bottom cushion. From underneath, I cut the stitching connecting the cushion sections, I did not cut through any leather. The belt is attached to a bar that uses the rear seat bolts to hold it to the floor. Therefore the belt holds your lower torso down and rearward; the seatbelt latch is held so it stays low and does not creep up over your belly button.

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[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Ouch.

 

[Viper Wizard]

Now that's a Submarine Catcher!

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Yes, you must wear loose clothing so you can position your soft tissue body parts to one side. I suppose you can cut the stitching so the position of the belt is already off to one side if you carry larger tissues than I do. And I suggest using only the two inch belt instead of three inch; three inch will "pinch."

But seriously, it works well. It has the "down and back" into the seat feeling I like and keeps you well tied into the car.

 

[jimandela]

Tom.

This is exactly what I am looking to do.
otherwise the belt seems sort of useless.
okay.. exactly (nervous cutting into a $80k car) how did you do it?
I assume you take a razor knife and just cut some of the stitching? then push it up thru?

this will be my winter project.
thanks
JIM

 

[Janni]

Tom,
We just did another TeamTech install today (videotaped - should be edited, dubbed and available soon with your purchase of TeamTech belts...) and I took the opportunity to check out the seat while it was out of the car. It was a 2001 GTS. All our prior installs have been on Gen 2 coupes, as well. On ALL the Gen II seats we have seen, when you spread the 2 lower cushions apart (yes 2, I notice in the picture your seat is really showing 3 lower cushions), all you see is one row of stitching. The seat bottom leather piece(s) is ONE PIECE, just sewn down in the middle. I was hoping to be able to offer the 5 point through the seat bottom as an option for the Gen II folks, but it looks like the seat changed design from Gen I to Gen II, and cutting it would harm the seat cushion.

On another note, a current ACR owner sat in one of our cars and tested the 6 points - he could not believe the difference in how it held him firmly in the seat. He'll be trying to upgrade his ACR belts to TeamTech... As stated here before, the 5th point stock location is pretty worthless, and when you crank down on the shoulder straps, it actually pushes you down and forward in the seat starting the submarining process. (I am improperly equipped to comment on the comfort concerns noted above... properly equipped spouse confirms 6 point configuration is not uncomfortable) Go with the 6 points - it takes the seat out of the equation and helps you feel the car... Cannot emphasize this enough....

 

[jimandela]

Jenni,
thanks for the info. Seeing that I have a 2001 I will pass on cutting the seat.

Just some FYI. Also I tried to use your GTS install directions on my R/T and it didn't work out. The R/T would needs its own different template and install is even easier seat removal in not required. But it did require drilling (hole saw) through fiberglass to get to the shoulder anchors.

thanks again
JIM

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Janni,
I'm having a little trouble uploading pictures, so I'll email you some. Too bad about the newer seats, maybe the new seat frames accept the old cushions? Different colors, though, I suppose.

Maybe you could show where the six point anti-sub straps attach?

The three piece seat cushion is really three pieces sewn together. I have an image to show exactly what was cut - and it's not the leather. Anyone else want these, please email me.

 

[Richard K]

Janni, this has no doubt been posted somewhere previously, but it I already have the 5 point TeamTechs installed can I go to a 6 point set-up relatively easy? Cost? etc. Thanks!

 

[Jay Lopez]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Richard K:
Janni, this has no doubt been posted somewhere previously, but it I already have the 5 point TeamTechs installed can I go to a 6 point set-up relatively easy? Cost? etc. Thanks!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

TeamTech can convert a 5 point to a 6 point for a little money. I had them do mine. I haven't driven with the 6 point installed yet, but it really does hold you in tight!

 

[Janni]

Jay is right - TeamTech will reweb your 5 points to a 6 point very cheaply. Points 5 and six clip / attach to the same eyebolt as the lap belts / straps (side locations) so they are actually EASIER to install, as you don't have to cut the carpet for the additional eyebolt required for the center fifth point. (Not that we didn't do that first and then go to 6 points...)

They are a little more difficult to deal with - you have to unclip one side to stow the cam lock and crotch pad under the seat, so they are probably not as popular for street use. However, there is no comparison for track use. I'll see if I have any pictures to upload later...

 

[JonB]

1) Team Tech's 5-point Viper system already has an included padded "pelvic pad" which I call a groin protector. We order custom pads for unusual sizes. (ie the padding we order for a 6'3" 225lb driver is NOT necessarily the same we order for your 5.1" 110lb passenger seat....or a 5'5" 155 lb driver.


2) For very reasonable money, Team Tech will re-web the 5-point into a 6-point. In fact, at any time, TeamTech will completely reweb and re-certify their harness systems for 45% off of the current price at time of re-web. The system LIVES ON as do the drivers. Don't get a disposable, expiring harness. I have had one customer simply do a color change.........

3) The Gen-1 seat is different from the GenII. As I recall, approximatly 12 lbs weight PER SEAT was saved due to the changes.

4) The shorter the driver, the greater the risk of a "webbing loop" with a 5-point belt. Drivers who have their OE seats full-rearward do not create this upholstery-filled loop.

4) Team Tech builds custom Child Seats, w/ padded matching harnesses. $249 in fabric.........and now $499 in Eddie Bauer Edition black leather.

 

[Henry Cone]

Kevin, we have not seen any problems with the eye bolts interfering with the travel of the seat. We have used the eye bolts on 4 different GTS coupe TeamTech installations now and not had any problems. And since the eye bolt threads into a special thread insert built into the frame I don't think that there is very much variation in location.

I would suggest that you try the following. First, make sure that the eye bolt is correctly installed. It should have come with a sleeve that the stock belt fits over - make sure that the stock belt is free to swivel on the sleeve. Second, make sure that you have the eye bolt at the correct angular position - we have found it best to turn them so that the eye is about 45 degrees from horizontal. Third, make sure that the waist belt is clipped onto the eye bolt closest to the tunnel and the anti-sub strap is further out. Fourth, if all of the above is correct, make sure that the belts are not simply bunching up and jamming alongside the seat.

Did you get a set of detailed instructions with your harnesses?? If not, TeamTech now has them available. We can also provide them as we wrote them for TeamTech...

I hope that this helps. Feel free to email me with any questions...

 

[Henry Cone]

Jon, we've heard about differences in the install on RT's vs GTS's. We haven't done an RT yet but we hope to soon - we're looking for a car to do to check for any differences. If so, we'll update the instructions as needed...

 

[jimandela]

jmcguire,
i have an r/t and installed 5pts used henry's directions as a guide and thought install would be identical. but it was slightly different. only need to cut the center bulhead piece not the 2 sides like in the gts. seat removal is not needed. and you have to drill (cut with wholesaw) thru fiberglass to find shoulder anchors.

I had my vipertech handle the install. He did call Woodhouse's vipertech Rick for assistance on the cutting. It was really no big deal just cut carefully at the dimple markes in the fiberglass and there are the bolts. also only having to cut the center piece of the bulkhead made lining up the cuts for the belts easy.


Love my 5pts and when they expire will probably try teamtech.

good luck
JIM

 

[YellowSnake]

LOOKS PAINFUL.

 

[Richard K]

Thanks Jay, Janni and others, I guess with the car in Winter storage now would be a good time to send the belts up the road to be converted to 6 points. I assume (make that hope) that they would not require the shoulder pieces that are installed through the bulkheads to make this conversion???

 

[gtsviper]

Tony you missed the point. The objective is safety not looks or convenience. When Dodge provides a mounting point for the anti-sub belt why would you look for another place to mount it? The manufacturer's installation instructions for the safety belts should be followed for the greatest reduction in the risk of injury.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

gtsviper, I wish the way I did the anti-sub belt looked better and was more convenient; I have to move it out of the way every time I get in, whether I use it or not.

Don't want to argue "who" is correct, but want to know the "how." The installation instructions and safety reports say that the anti-sub belt function is as much to keep the lap belt from riding up off your hips, as may happen when your shoulders move forward. If the lap belt did slide up, it no longer pulls on your hip bones, but (my) soft stomach. So the diagram that came with my five point shows a picture of the anti-sub belt heading straight down, or angled forward enough only to be parallel to your torso, or angled rearward a similar amount. Mine may indeed be angled a little more rearward than that, but it seems to meet the objectives of keeping the lap belt down and keeping me from sliding under the lap belt.

Looking at racing seats (not a great technical testament, I know) the hole in the seat bottom is about centered; it wouldn't allow a straight shot from that hole to the OEM bolt either going over or under the seat bottom cushion. With the OEM mounting hole, with the seat full back or forward, when I tighten the shoulder belts the lap belt was pulled away from me.

Actually, I'm starting to think that I'm the only one that has the room between their legs to do it this way... I guess we need some race car pictures or comments on how the professionals do this.

 

[gtsviper]

You're NUTS! (no pun intended!) The mounting point on the floor of my RT/10 is forward of the spot where the belt exits the seat. If we learned anything from Dale Earnhardt, check the mounting instructions and follow them. I would bet this installation would not meet specs.