95' RT/10 almost ate it at 135 MPH

[phiebert]

Re: 95\' RT/10 almost ate it at 135 MPH

Do you have the stock tires? I've noticed a huge difference in high speed handling when using different tires. I think the car handles very well. I had a 911 and I would say that once you learn how to drive both (they are very different) that the Viper may even handle a little better. I know it had a better lateral G rating in one of the recent car mag articles.

 

[Janni]

Re: 95\' RT/10 almost ate it at 135 MPH

Get off the **** highway and take it to the track.

 

[Nadine UK GTS]

Re: 95\' RT/10 almost ate it at 135 MPH

I nearly lost it monday, 130 and still on the gas around a gradual bend, and Viper was drifting sideways across the tarmac, I have never balanced that throttle so carefully in the whole of my life! Phew!

JonB, what are the "dive-planes"? Are they like the GT2's have by the front fogs? I can't have a splitter over here, it would get ripped off on the roads I drive.

 

[phiebert]

Re: 95\' RT/10 almost ate it at 135 MPH

If your tires were new then it certainly isn't surprising. Like Ag NSX said, new tires are easy to lose it on. Earlier in my life, when I was even more naive than I am now, I nearly killed myself on new tires. I completely spun around. I went back to the place where I bought them and said what the @#$%#@ is wrong with these tires. They laughed and told me that all of these quality of tires are apparently coated with a thin spray of really hard rubber so they are not damaged in shipping. That first layer takes a few miles to burn off but it's like driving on ice before it does.

 

[FrankBarba]

Re: 95\' RT/10 almost ate it at 135 MPH

take it easy. Let me know when you put your viper up against something. I need a parts car. Or you could Wreck your car, get the insurance money, then get the car back, and try to sell it for 35K.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Re: 95\' RT/10 almost ate it at 135 MPH

Sean Roe has something you may want to think about that would provide a double fix. His kit cuts a hole under the chin just forward of the radiator. It increases cooling performance and also decreases front end lift. I shamelessly copied it on my own, but can attest that that the idea works.

 

[Serious Eric]

Re: 95\' RT/10 almost ate it at 135 MPH

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
I wish people would stop saying "take it to the track"!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agree ... pretty much. The wagging mommy fingers get old. Only a liar claims they've never opened up their viper on a lonely stretch of country road.

On the other hand, the track IS the ideal place to learn your car's limits. From a purely self-interest point of view you don't want to learn about spins and how to handle/avoid them anyplace else. Public roads have all sorts of nuisances that'll ruin your day, i.e., walls, embankments, curbs, cars, cops, nuns, girl scouts, etc.

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But seriously ... to learn the cars limits you're gonna have to exceed them and that can be pretty safely done at the track. After that ... speed on safely at your discretion. We all do.

 

[Elite1]

Re: 95\' RT/10 almost ate it at 135 MPH

JohnB,

Adding a front splitter is apparently required if you get a wing even for cosmetic purposes. How much lower will the clearance be with a front splitter? I'd like to add a wing but do not want to be scraping the ground more than I do already What speeds do the wing and front splitter become significant areodynamically on a near stock GTS.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Re: 95\' RT/10 almost ate it at 135 MPH

It never bothered me when somebody would open it up on a safe stretch of road. Janni makes a good point though, the track is alot more fun. Most tracks have open track days where you can race for around $200 for the whole day. You'll see everything from Mazdas and four door sedans to Vipers, Ferraris, and Lambos. It's AWESOME!!! It's addicting. You don't have to go to a school, just give it a try first then go to a school later. It beats the **** out of street racing, which I still do occassionally.

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Find a track near you by going to Chasin Racin

 

[SEASNAKE]

Re: 95\' RT/10 almost ate it at 135 MPH

You'll have to forgive Janni - she just doesn't understand. The only way her car sees the street is when she airs out the garage.

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For us people who put around town (which is a lot for me)and sit in traffic, the urge to open it up when you're finally on an open, safe road can be irresistable. It's tough but try to resist it unless you really just did a thorough check on your car. I learned my lesson when the right side of my hood unlatched at 130+ on the interstate. I was shaky for 30 minutes after that.

At least if you screw up on the track, there's an ambulance there ready to scrape up your remains.

In a partial answer to your original question, I've had my snake up to about 150 with the top off straight-line (on a track Janni)and did not feel the car getting light, but that was only for a short amount of time. I've done close to that (not on a track) with the hard top on and it felt much better.

I don't want to lower my car because I do so much driving around town, but I would like to buy some adjustable shocks (like on the VCA recipe page) one day for racing.

 

[Kid97GTS]

Re: 95\' RT/10 almost ate it at 135 MPH

Although I appreciate the sentiment, I too am a little tired of the "take it to the track" and "the first modification you should make is a trip to driving school" party lines. I personally have no desire to get the front of my Viper pock-marked by rocks thrown from Lil' Whoadie's Hoosiers as he passes me at Buttonwillow, nor do I wish to fork over $2,000 for a weekend of instruction in a group of middle-aged Mario Andretti wanna-bes. I've driven cars with more power/torque than the Viper since I was 16, with the majority of my experience coming on country roads and a local strip (hey, worked for Bo and Luke Duke too

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). Point being that there are plenty of occassions where it is reasonably acceptable for someone who doesn't have a Skip Barber certificate hanging on their wall to open it up on a toll road with a nice sweeper (i.e. going 150 on the way back from Palm Springs).

Besides, if you really want to talk about developing your driving (racing) skills the best way to do it is with a shifter kart, and NOT a car that 99.9% of the public lacks the skills to even approach the performance envelope of.

 

[Janni]

Re: 95\' RT/10 almost ate it at 135 MPH

Yet again, I must be typing in a foreign language. Maybe I need that translator thingie down at the bottom of the page.

My major point is that before you go and drive that fast ANYWHERE, make sure you have inspected your car and have been absolutely A/R about maintenance. Take alignment for example. Factory setting are set for max tire wear. Do you think that tire wear ought to be your major concern at 135 MPH? Oh, and your crappy stock brake fluid - probably will be toast before you hit 50 MPH. To say nothing about the distractions on the road and the constant loking over your shoulder may cause you to miss something at 135.... My bet is that most folks that don't want to go to the track becasue getting the car ready is "too much trouble" may be in serious trouble because their car, while technically capable of those speeds is really in no condition to be going that fast. Get it?

Oh, and Dave, I think that majority of my miles lately have been track miles, so I guess you are right about the street. Too many crazies out there for me to take the car out.

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So actually, I have nothing against going fast. Don't kill anyone innocent on the highway and don't race on the street and I'll stay off your case. I like to go fast. I know my car is capable and technically sound, and I know my limits..... Out.

 

[Janni]

Re: 95\' RT/10 almost ate it at 135 MPH

Here's why I say to take it to the track...

Did you check your tire pressures before this run? Track rats do - every day, usually more. Pressures are constantly monitored and tweaked for high speed conditions.

How new were your tires? Track rats inspect / change tires a lot more frequently than on road drivers , as a rule.

Were you a little nervous about a cop lurking in the shadows? Was you attention 100% focused on driving? Had you already had a full day of activities behind you, maybe a least little bit tired? You'd be more focused and safer at the track.

When was the last time you had all the wheels and tires off your car and inspected each suspension piece for any signs of wear / breakage? We do before and after every event.

When was you car last aligned? Were you in it? Ours were. And we check them religiously.

What kind of brake pads do you have? When was your fluid last flushed? Are you running high temp fluid? Nice to go that fast, nicer yet to be able to stop. We check our pads all the time, fluid is changed very frequently and our brake systems are extremely reliable.

How good was your visibility? Could you have seen far enough ahead to make a split second decisionon where to "go off" if you had to? I doubt it - it was at night.

And yes, I exceed the posted speed limit. I don't see this as a preachy statement about going too fast for conditions. I am not your mother. I see it that you should have the experience and the equipment to do this correctly (and oh, by the way, after running tracks like VIR, Gateway, Texas, etc. going that fast in a straight line isn't all that exciting, its the turns that are cool....)

So, even if you don't kill an innocent person on the road, its still dangerous - for you. Know your equipment, learn to handle he car in a controlled environment like Alan says, and don't be afraid to get on the gas. But all of this is a moot point if you are running old XGTZs, stock pads and fluid, have aworn / loose / broken suspension piece and a crappy alignment - you are an accident waiting to happen.

 

[TorQ Junkie]

Re: 95\' RT/10 almost ate it at 135 MPH

How does the stock GTS differ in the lift/downforce characteristics at higher speeds? Is is technically safer to go 135 and up compared to the RT? Is the GenII RT/10 better suited than the 95 mentioned above?
Frank

 

[GR8_ASP]

Re: 95\' RT/10 almost ate it at 135 MPH

I have had my 95 RT at high speeds on many occasions. The handling can differ considerably depending on conditions and use of the roof, windows or rear window. In general it remains well planted at speeds up to about 140-145 where front and rear lightness is becomes evident. This happens a little earlier if the rear window is in. With the roof off and no windows it is stable for straight line past 170. The highest I have gone is about 176 at Chelsea Proving Grounds (oval track). At that speed it is a handful, but manageable. I have no aero effects or modifications that would affect the aerodynamics.

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[GR8_ASP]

Re: 95\' RT/10 almost ate it at 135 MPH

Andrew,

Yes the RT is a handful. I would work up to higher speeds on a track or very clear, wide road. After a while you will be able to feel the tendencies of the car and when to limit inputs (braking, turning, etc.). Clearly at high speed all of your attention must be on the driving. Our club has been on ovals where we have gone all out. Many members have had their RT's in the 160-170 range without incident. Very careful in the turns though. Even on the ovals I slow to the 130-140 range (neutral steer at 100) so steering input is minimal.

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Good Luck,
Ron

 

[Mark 00 RT10]

Re: 95\' RT/10 almost ate it at 135 MPH

Ron, My '00 RT was very firm at 175 (top off) and felt like it had a strong 10mph to go. (traffic ahead made me slow) Typically I hit 100-130 every time out and have not noticed any signs of lift or drift.

And Yes NC VCA Pres the car is tracked about 8X per year.

 

[Mike H]

Re: 95\' RT/10 almost ate it at 135 MPH

The big problem with doing 135 MPH on the street is grip. What the big difference is usually at a track as more and more drivers put down rubber to the surface and the surface heats up, grip changes. To drive on a "cold" road at night at 135 mph and into a turn, probably with a max sterring of 70 mph is suicide. The Viper has great grip when used correctly.
I am with janni, the track is the "safe" or safer place for high speeds as it is designed for it. You get to know where you can 'fly" and where not to. On a street or highway, at 135 mph, one little hill in the road can get your front airborne and as Alan M said, you get light, the average driver lifts, and grip goes out the window, and as we all know , Vipers get wrecked.
Doing 135 mph on the highway, at night, into a turn, poor vision, who knows what holes or debris is on the road, is just plain stupid!!!

 

[kverges]

Re: 95\' RT/10 almost ate it at 135 MPH

My BS meter just went off at the "aero" discussion on GTS hood and fascia effects on downforce.

Got any wind tunnel data on that, JonB? Just visually, I would think the hood louvers do nothing at all but let water in on the "tool trays" in the wheel covers. Any race car I have seen with those louvers vents directly to the wheelwell, where high pressure can build up with rotating wheel. Frankly, I think they are purely cosmetic on a Viper (I have never seen trails of dust or dirt come out of them in the most inclement conditions, so I assume there is no appreciable airflow).

As for the fascia, I wonder if there is a significant effect in total downforce on the old v. new RT/10 fascia. I doubt any but the most skilled driver would notice it. This is especially true on that aerodynamic brick, the RT/10.

Not trying to be a big pain, but aerodynamics is hugely complex and often contrary to intuition. Hence my comments are as much BS as any others without wind tunnel data.

Jes' bein' ornery ;-)

 

[David Jenkins]

Re: 95\' RT/10 almost ate it at 135 MPH

Just a couple of things I picked up from these posts. From everyones input, sounds to me like it's ok to run the thing at 130 and up if the tires, brakes, misc. are up to par. Sounds to me like mostly everyone is a race car driver but they don't screw around on the street....right. It would have been tragic had someone got wounded in a crash. There is a time and a place whether it's on the street or track. If he felt it was a safe time, then go for it I say! How many of you have run your car through 1st, 2nd gears when leaving a light? Let's see a show of hands. Did you feel it was a "safe/smart" time? You gotta' know your (and your cars) limitations. Sure, you should take it to a track. Try to find one with a skid pad. Take it out and beat on it to learn what she's gonna' do. There are only a handfull of great drivers in the world, few hundred good ones, and then everyone else.It's also good to hear the girls can talk like the boys...." Get off the **** highway. Take it to the track!" Gotta love that!!!dj

 

[Kid97GTS]

Re: 95\' RT/10 almost ate it at 135 MPH

As far as "staying off the ****ing highway," as long as mother hens stay in the ****ing right lane where they and their Zaino queens belong, we'll get along just fine

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. Just talking a little smack.

Anyway, as far as the ever-popular "bang for the buck" argument, if I was concerned with learning proper racing technique that is readily transferable to the track no matter what car is involved, I'd pay about half the price of admission to a Viper track school for a weekend of shifter kart instruction with at a well known school like the one in Oxnard. The finer points of corner entry/exit, braking, picking lines, etc. are all taught in shifter karts at what seems like amazing speeds when you are sitting 2 inches off the ground. Besides, it's a lot easier to learn and push the envelope of your ability when you aren't worried about wadding up an $80,000 car and possibly yourself at Willow. If you don't believe the value of shifter kart experience, just hand the keys to your Viper to a 15 year old kid whose never set foot in one, yet has been driving karts for 7 years, and watch him shave big time off your lap times.