95viper - check engine lite ON - engine skipping

[aviatorone]

I am new to the Viper world... Here is a little bit of history, the car has 60,000 miles on it. Not sure when the last tune up was, I bought the car 8 months ago.

The car was running fine yesterday, when I started it tonight, the 'check engine' light came on right away... the engine sounds like its skipping/misfiring on one cylinder.

I do not wanna drive it like this (duh), but drove it a couple miles to an AutoZone, so they could read the code, they don't carry the correct plug to read it...(damn)

I went thru the engine bay, checked all the plug wires (both ends), checked all the vacuum lines I could find. The oil is still black, and everything looks good and seems to be in place.

My nearest Dodge dealer is probably 30 miles away... I was planning on taking it in soon to have them change all the fluids, and have them tutor me on some checks. I did buy Chuck Tators tape, and did learn a couple things on the Gen 1 cars, pretty cool! Thanks Chuck!

I've searched this site and others, with no luck, looking for similiar issues.

Has this happened to anyone, that could give me some tips? Besides changing out the plugs and wires, is there anything else I can check?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.........thank you and Merry Christmas!!

 

[Camfab]

Has the car had the head gaskets changed yet? All Gen I's have defective head gaskets. Did you do a compression test, you can also check for exhaust contamination in the coolant.

 

[aviatorone]

Hey Camfab, thanks....
I'm pretty sure the head gasket was not replaced. I asked the first owner, and he said, he didn't think it was replaced. (first owner had a garage and 2 mechanics worked under him)
I do get the oil tested, its been 1000 miles since the last test. But it was good then. No compression test yet. The coolant looks clean, I plan on getting it changed out when I take the car into the garage.

New Info: I had the car sitting for a couple hours, I went back out to start it, and it ran smooth, like it was suppose too. But within 5 mins, the Check lite popped on, and it started to skip.

 

[TexasPettey]

The code reader for the Gen1 is tough to find, because it is not OBD2. You might be able to find a local Viper savy shop that has a reader.

O2 Sensors might be one guess. I believe that the car is in open loop until it warms up a bit, then enters closed loop. At that point, faulty O2 sensors would impact it.

Plugs and wires are always suspicious, if they've never been done.

I had an issue with my TPS. I changed out it and the IAT as well. I know my Check Engine light comes on when I unplug the IAT connector.

None of these are too expensive, but it does cost a bit to debug this way. I don't know of a way to flash out the codes through the CEL.

 

[Jack B]

The code reader for the ODD1 might not be common, but, sure is available. I had one when I owned a Gen1. I am not quite sure, but, didn't the 95 model year have the OBD set up to give you a blink code for CEL.

 

[Dan Cragin]

Make sure you read the codes first before you start changing parts. Most repair shops can do this.

 

[bluesrt]

the first owner had a garage with 2 bozos- and he didnt think it had had head gaskets replaced? dont ask that guy any more questions, he will tell you to go right when you should have gone left... i would definatley do a compression test on that car before you do anything to it.

 

[MTGTS]

call around and see who has an OBD1 code reader. That will tell you what you need to know

 

[bluesrt]

dont jack around- do a compression test first on that car. you need to know if the upper end is solid on that car! then go from there- dont hit the ball and run to second base first!

 

[VYPR BYT 94]

dont jack around- do a compression test first on that car. you need to know if the upper end is solid on that car! then go from there- dont hit the ball and run to second base first!

I think this is sound advice from blue. It's a quick and simple way to put one possiblity to rest. It makes sense. Then move onto the codes which can sometimes open up alot of guessing if there is an underlying problem that your not aware of.

 

[aviatorone]

Will do. Thanks all so much for ur help with the info!!!
I will let u know what I find.

 

[zzeck1]

95viper skipping or lurching??

Not sure if your skipping is the same as lurching. My '95 started lurching which seems to be a common problem with Gen1 vipers where the throttle body is out of sync. I took it to the Dodge dealer in Alpharetta and fixed the problem.

Looks like we're neighbors....I live in ******* also.

 

[cfiiman]

You can check the codes on a Gen 1 by cycling the key off to on I think like 3 times in 5 seconds and then count the flashes. If you show a code 55 it means "end of codes". I checked mine a while back just for kicks and got just the 55, let us know what the code(s) are. Count the flashes they correspond to the number 1-9 then their is a pause, if it is short it is another number in the code, if it is long then it is a "new" code being thrown, hope this helps.

 

[jckrieger]

+1, No code reader needed. Just cycle the key quickly 3 times to the on position, finishing "on". The check engine light will blink and then somebody with a service manual can decode the 2 digit code for you.

You can check the codes on a Gen 1 by cycling the key off to on I think like 3 times in 5 seconds and then count the flashes. If you show a code 55 it means "end of codes". I checked mine a while back just for kicks and got just the 55, let us know what the code(s) are. Count the flashes they correspond to the number 1-9 then their is a pause, if it is short it is another number in the code, if it is long then it is a "new" code being thrown, hope this helps.

 

[aviatorone]

Hey zeck! The only other Viper I've seen around *******, is a red one, looks to be around a 2005?!

When its happening, it feels like one of the cylinders isn't firing. But it doesn't do it all the time, it comes and goes. I'm not driving the car, the next time will be to a garage.

I will try what 'cfiman' and 'jckrieger' posted. I think I read that elsewhere too.

Thanks again, for all your recommendations!

95viper skipping or lurching??

Not sure if your skipping is the same as lurching. My '95 started lurching which seems to be a common problem with Gen1 vipers where the throttle body is out of sync. I took it to the Dodge dealer in Alpharetta and fixed the problem.

Looks like we're neighbors....I live in ******* also.

 

[ACELLR8]

You can check the codes on a Gen 1 by cycling the key off to on I think like 3 times in 5 seconds and then count the flashes. If you show a code 55 it means "end of codes". I checked mine a while back just for kicks and got just the 55, let us know what the code(s) are. Count the flashes they correspond to the number 1-9 then their is a pause, if it is short it is another number in the code, if it is long then it is a "new" code being thrown, hope this helps.

+1 on this. You can check the codes by cycling the key off and on 3 times. You then count the flashes of the check engine light, note a short pause is the next digit. When it finishes reporting all codes you will get the 55.

Here is a list of codes for the Gen I.


ON-BOARD DIAGNOSTICS

1. Cycle the ignition key ON-OFF-ON-OFF-ON within 5 seconds. To cycle the ignition key ON means to turn it only as far as it takes to get the radio to come on. It does not mean to turn the engine on.

2. Count the number of times the "check engine" lamp on the instrument panel flashes on and off. The number of flashes represents the code. There is a slight pause between the flashes representing the first and second digits of the code. Longer pauses separate individual codes. For example, flash-flash-flash [pause] flash-flash represents the code 32.

A code of "55" represents end of error codes. If this is all you get then no error codes are stored in the computer. This is the normal condition for a neon.
CODE Description of Trouble Code
11 Timing belt skipped 1 tooth or more from initial learned value, Intermittent loss of either camshaft or crankshaft position sensor, No crank reference signal detected during engine cranking
12 Direct battery input to PCM was disconnected within the last 50 key-on cycles
13 No change in MAP from start to run
14 MAP sensor voltage too low
15 No vehicle speed sensor signal
17 Closed loop temp not reached or engine cold too long
21 02s sensor problem (oxygen sensor), upstream or down stream
22 Engine coolant temp sensor out of range
23 Intake air temp sensor out of range
24 Throttle Position sensor out of range
25 Idle air control motor circuits, target idle not reached (+/- 200),vacuum leak found
27 Injector control circuit
31 Evap purge flow monitor failure or evap solenoid circuit
32 EGR system failure
33 A/C clutch relay circuit
34 Speed control Solenoid circuits
35 Rad Fan control relay circuit
37 Torque converter clutch solenoid CKT or park/neutral switch failure
41 Generator field not switching properly
42 Fuel pump relay control ckt, Auto shutdown relay control ckt, No ASD relay output voltage at PCM, Fuel level sending unit volts out of range, Fuel level unit No change over miles
43 Multiple/ single cylinder misfire
44 Battery temp sensor volts out of range
46 Charging system voltage too low
51 Fuel system lean
52 Fuel system rich
53 Internal control failure
54 No Cam signal at PCM
55 End of error messages (If you get this only, no errors were found)
62 PCM failure SRI mile not stored
63 PCM Failure EEPROM write denied
64 Catalytic Converter Efficiency Failure
65 Power steering switch failure

 

[aviatorone]

Wow! Nice. I've printed everything off for now, and to keep in the "viper" folder for the future....

I plan on trying this when I get home from work! I will post what I find.

Thank you Thank you!!

 

[aviatorone]

After doing what you guys recommend, the codes it showed were 12 and 27, ending with the 55. I did it several times... the same code appeared!

12.) Direct battery input to PCM was disconnected within the last 50 key-on cycles
27.) Injector control circuit

I assume a bad injector?

I've never heard of it, but I was told a DRB3 tester will narrow down the errors on our Gen1's. fyi

Tomorrow I will swing by the dealer,

Thanks everyone for your help!!

 

[cfiiman]

How old is your battery?

 

[aviatorone]

Its at least one year old, the battery feels strong, there is no lag when starting, even if the car sits for a week. I drive the cars at least once a week, bring them up to normal operating temp, then return them to there designated parking spot. : )

To answer the question, I'm guessing 3-5 years old, I can check this evening? Not sure how the battery would cause the mis-fire/skipping.. The alternator seems to be doing its job, but sometimes when looking at the gauge, it looks like it maybe over charging at times!?!

The other day I drove the car. It started fine, I drove it about 3 miles, once it got to normal operating temp, it started with the skipping, it lasted about 5 sec. Then it stopped, ran fine (once the skipping starts, the 'check engine' light comes on). It ran fine for about 5 minutes, then it started skipping again. By then I was close to home and it skipped untill I got to the house. Which was a 2-3 minute ride.

Last night before I pulled the code I started the car, it started right up and ran fine. I was trying to get it to skip so the "check engine" light would come on. It never did, but it still gave me the 12/27/55 codes.

I've never had a car "check engine" light reset (not a true reset) when I turned the ignition off. I've always had to pull the battery leads. Is this normal with Dodge cars? Vipers? This is my first Dodge, btw.

How old is your battery?

 

[zzeck1]

Guys....am I missing something here? Sure sounds like the throttle body is out of sync.

 

[bluesrt]

if it still has the codes in the computer, it did not re-set, if the light is not on at the time, the problem is not there right at the moment, but give it time, it will be back knocking on your door.

 

[cfiiman]

Its at least one year old, the battery feels strong, there is no lag when starting, even if the car sits for a week. I drive the cars at least once a week, bring them up to normal operating temp, then return them to there designated parking spot. : )

To answer the question, I'm guessing 3-5 years old, I can check this evening? Not sure how the battery would cause the mis-fire/skipping.. The alternator seems to be doing its job, but sometimes when looking at the gauge, it looks like it maybe over charging at times!?!

The other day I drove the car. It started fine, I drove it about 3 miles, once it got to normal operating temp, it started with the skipping, it lasted about 5 sec. Then it stopped, ran fine (once the skipping starts, the 'check engine' light comes on). It ran fine for about 5 minutes, then it started skipping again. By then I was close to home and it skipped untill I got to the house. Which was a 2-3 minute ride.

Last night before I pulled the code I started the car, it started right up and ran fine. I was trying to get it to skip so the "check engine" light would come on. It never did, but it still gave me the 12/27/55 codes.

I've never had a car "check engine" light reset (not a true reset) when I turned the ignition off. I've always had to pull the battery leads. Is this normal with Dodge cars? Vipers? This is my first Dodge, btw.

Well others will chime in, but one of the first things I learned about these cars from the people on this board is when the battery voltage drops (will not show an evident problem with the battery) then the PCM doesn't get the correct voltage which can cause all kinds of things. I'm just regurgitating what I've read/been told, I would give Chuck Tator a call at tatorsgarage.com good luck and keep us informed of what happens.

 

[Dan Cragin]

The code you indicate often relates to the VIC unit on your car, the 2nd controller that controls commands related to two cylinders on your car. There are some tests you can do to isolate this. Feel free to give me a call.

 

[aviatorone]

Thanks DC P, I sent you a PM.

The code you indicate often relates to the VIC unit on your car, the 2nd controller that controls commands related to two cylinders on your car. There are some tests you can do to isolate this. Feel free to give me a call.

 

[scottmarston]

If I were to program in an ‘Injector Control Circuit’ fault, it would be because I lost voltage on the bus at the controls circuit. DC Performance, I'm assumming the VIC send output commands to the rest of the injectors on the car? Are they isolated circuits for each pair of cylinders? I’m very interested in the results of this.

 

[aviatorone]

I will update the thread once resolved.

If I were to program in an ‘Injector Control Circuit’ fault, it would be because I lost voltage on the bus at the controls circuit. DC Performance, I'm assumming the VIC send output commands to the rest of the injectors on the car? Are they isolated circuits for each pair of cylinders? I’m very interested in the results of this.

 

[klamathpro]

I had the 'Injector Control Circuit' fault on my 94' with your same exact symptoms. Simply reseating all the injector plugs revealed that one was loose and the problem went away. Pull and re-plug all your injector wires, I am certain this is your problem, especially if it comes and goes. What happens is you are sometimes running on 9 cylinders when the vibration loosens the injector wire.

 

[aviatorone]

Thats exactly what it feels like, with the skipping. I have gone thru all the plugs and unplugged/reseated. But never really thought about them vibrating loose again, to loose the contact. I can totally agree with this. I'll go back thru them again.

Thanks so much!!

I had the 'Injector Control Circuit' fault on my 94' with your same exact symptoms. Simply reseating all the injector plugs revealed that one was loose and the problem went away. Pull and re-plug all your injector wires, I am certain this is your problem, especially if it comes and goes. What happens is you are sometimes running on 9 cylinders when the vibration loosens the injector wire.

 

[ACELLR8]

Thats exactly what it feels like, with the skipping. I have gone thru all the plugs and unplugged/reseated. But never really thought about them vibrating loose again, to loose the contact. I can totally agree with this. I'll go back thru them again.

Thanks so much!!

aviatorone,

I believe that klamathpro is talking about the electrical wires / plugs to each of the 10 fuel injectors and not the plug wires. Sounds like a logical approach to me as well. Keep us posted how you make out. Always curious how these things turn out.