A philisophical question, regarding tires.
- Thread starter gb66gth
- Start date
Paul Hawker
Enthusiast
I have driven new Nitto's on the track and did not like them at all. While they are pretty good on the street, and also on drag strips, they are not appropriate on the track, mostly due to their sidewall flex.
Sport Cuts probably the better choice, unless they are hard from many heat cycles, then neither is a great idea.
IF you are getting new street tires, then maybe Pilot Sports, or SuperSports would be a better track choice. (SuperSports are pretty cheap right now)
Sport Cuts probably the better choice, unless they are hard from many heat cycles, then neither is a great idea.
IF you are getting new street tires, then maybe Pilot Sports, or SuperSports would be a better track choice. (SuperSports are pretty cheap right now)
I have new Super Sports on my street wheels but don't want to burn 'em up on the track.
I put Invo's on my Gen III before I turned it back in when the lease was up, they sucked.
It's a tough call on my Cup tires, not hard from heat cycles but not a ton of tread left either.
I put Invo's on my Gen III before I turned it back in when the lease was up, they sucked.
It's a tough call on my Cup tires, not hard from heat cycles but not a ton of tread left either.
TrackAire
Enthusiast
Neither.....
Overly used up or heat cycled Sport Cups are dangerous....especially if it is cool that day.
Buy a set of new tires and go enjoy yourself.
Overly used up or heat cycled Sport Cups are dangerous....especially if it is cool that day.
Buy a set of new tires and go enjoy yourself.
Allan
Enthusiast
I have run both on the track.
Invo's are great for the street and road trips.
They totally **** on the track though.
Cups are awesome when they are new, but require a little more warm up time than other track tires.
After several heat cycles, it takes even more laps before you can push them hard,.....and even then they are noticeably less grippy than when new.
For lapping days with friends just for laid back fun......older Cups are fine.
For a special Viper event at a killer venue with a world class track, I wouldn't recommend skimping on tires.
A bucket-list / once in a lifetime event shouldn't be driven with scrub tires. -You'd regret that...during, and when it's over.
Invo's are great for the street and road trips.
They totally **** on the track though.
Cups are awesome when they are new, but require a little more warm up time than other track tires.
After several heat cycles, it takes even more laps before you can push them hard,.....and even then they are noticeably less grippy than when new.
For lapping days with friends just for laid back fun......older Cups are fine.
For a special Viper event at a killer venue with a world class track, I wouldn't recommend skimping on tires.
A bucket-list / once in a lifetime event shouldn't be driven with scrub tires. -You'd regret that...during, and when it's over.
Timnineside
Enthusiast
I have a set of new Sport Cups sitting in my garage I'll cut you a deal on. Brand new with tags. $1300 shipped assuming you don't live in the boonies.
PM me if interested. I may be willing to knock some off for your used fronts if they are decent for street tires.
PM me if interested. I may be willing to knock some off for your used fronts if they are decent for street tires.
It's a tough call on my Cup tires, not hard from heat cycles but not a ton of tread left either.
On our tires the tread grooves only exist to assist in helping with WET traction. They do this by keeping water from building up under the contact patch.
With a new tire as you go around a turn the tire tread blocks stretch(aka squirm). This is more noticable on an all-season tire with a deeper tread.
Less tread depth = More grip because there is less squirm. Squirm is undesirable because it makes the tire less predictable and causes less overall grip.
Tread "wear bars" exist only to tell you that once your tires wear down to that point that they are no longer "safe" to drive in the rain.(according to dot.)
I personally rock my tires untill the cords show...
Tirerack actually offers a tire "shaving" service in which they shave a specified amount of tread off of your tire with the purpose of deliving to you a better performing tire for competative use.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=67&
http://blog.tirerack.com/blog/motorsport-messages-from-marshall/tire-shaving-available-at-tire-rack
Bottom line, A tire with its tread wore down does not have less grip because of this. Rather, the less grip is a result of accumulative heat cycles which firm up the tires compound.
How many heat cycles is too much? Some people just go by feal. Other invest in a rubber durometer and take measurments periodicaly to see how much they firm up over time.
http://www.longacreracing.com/products.aspx?itemid=1618&pagetitle=Durometers
I had one of these handy tools but unfortunately dropped & broke it...
I do not recommend running INVO's on the track. The sidewalls are soft and will excessivly roll over on the fronts.
Nitto NT05 is a different story though. Stiffer sidewall, great for twisty backroads, autox, & track.
Goodluck @ your trackday.
Paul Hawker
Enthusiast
As far as the squirm. Some of the higher performance tires actually take advantage of the squirm. When running straight ahead, there are rain grooves and sipping to channel that rain away, however when going throughout the curves, the squirm closes up those sipes and channels, and gives you a solid block of rubber on the road. Kinda trick.
Well, screw it. I just pulled the trigger on a new set of Hoosier R6's, heat cycled and all.
I probably could have gotten away with my Cup tires one more time at COTA but I really didn't want to have the doubt in the back of my mind at 160 MPH braking into
turn 12.
I probably could have gotten away with my Cup tires one more time at COTA but I really didn't want to have the doubt in the back of my mind at 160 MPH braking into
turn 12.
Allan
Enthusiast
Awesome!!!!
The R6 is killer. You are gonna have a great track day.
The R6 is killer. You are gonna have a great track day.
I will add just one thing. Luke at Tire Rack did not hesitate to take the opportunity to SLAM the VCA.
I pretended to not know the story, to see how far he would go, and it sounded like he was frothing at the mouth decsribing all the details of the episode. He obviously is not friend of the VCA.
I pretended to not know the story, to see how far he would go, and it sounded like he was frothing at the mouth decsribing all the details of the episode. He obviously is not friend of the VCA.
Allan
Enthusiast
Bummer.
Oh well.............regardless of what club you want to belong to or anything else,
at least you'll be happy with the tires.
Oh well.............regardless of what club you want to belong to or anything else,
at least you'll be happy with the tires.
AZTVR
Enthusiast
It is understandable that when one has provided long term support to a club and then it decides to compete in the same business that pays your pay check, essentially telling you to take a hike, one would be a little annoyed I have dealt with Luke and Jim at Tirerack as a result of two different vehicle brand car clubs. They are a car guys, and great assets and seem to be acting in the customer's interest (which, of course, is in their company's best interest.)
I've done business with Luke several times over the years, as well. He's always taken care of my needs as promised. I was just kinda surprised he "went there", not knowing my position or how it might effect his deal with me. It wasn't very professional IMHO.
Personally, I'm a moderate and I just want my tires and to go down the road. Pardon the pun. But someone else, less laid back than me,might have told him to "shove his opinions and his tires" etc. and he would have lost the customer.
Personally, I'm a moderate and I just want my tires and to go down the road. Pardon the pun. But someone else, less laid back than me,might have told him to "shove his opinions and his tires" etc. and he would have lost the customer.
