ACR Ring record, how do they measure downforce

TrackAire

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In the video showing the Vipers 7:22 Ring run, there is a graph on the side showing the downforce at different speeds. Is this done with some sort of data logging sensors on the car?

Does anybody know what or how they measure those downforce figures during the run? I've seen some Vipers with corner sensors (they look like skinny shocks) for data logging. Can these be used to calculate downforce?

Thanks,
George
 

j-rho

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Likely just a calculated value using speed as an input.
Downforce = u * speed^2
where u is a factor based on wing size and coefficient of lift, the latter not necessarily the same at all speeds
 
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If you know the wheel rate of the springs at a given height and use the potentiometers for compression you can get a close number of actual down force, probably what they were doing.
 

j-rho

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That might work in testing on a perfectly straight and smooth road Mark, but would not work in a dynamic situation like the 'Ring.

If they know it makes 1000lbs @ 150, then it makes 250 @75. A simple formula like (speed^2)/22.5 as a math channel off the speed data in the data acq. would give a value to graph.
 
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Well the numbers fluttered around while it was going so if it was just a calculation it should have been smooth the whole time it was at a given speed, that's why I think it was a mechanical measurement.
 

j-rho

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If their speed channel was based off rear wheel speed and not GPS, it would bounce a bit with wheelspin. I'll have to check out the video again, haven't seen it in a while...
 
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It will be interesting to see what you guys might figure out...it does look like it is a mechanical "live" input of some sort because of the way the meter jumped around. It could also take a sampling rate of once every 2 or 3 seconds to average out the inputs and make them a little smoother on the data logger.

If it is mechanical sensors based on spring rate and the amount of compression, how cool would it be to have something like that on a car for trying out different aero packages, ride heights, etc.

Cheers,
George
 

j-rho

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The way to measure downforce with suspension transducers is to drive the vehicle at a constant speed (or multiple set speeds) and measure the suspension deflection with the aero components. The surface needs to be flat and smooth though, with no accelerations occuring, so you can get a good steady reading for both sets of parameters. You can compare those suspension deflections to the same car at rest, or driven on the same road at the same speed with no aero, to get a good idea of the lift/downforce provided.

On a track, the suspension is constantly moving as the car pitches and rolls around every corner, and as each wheel reacts to every bump, dip, and curb it sees. Think about it - if the car goes over a crest and all 4 tires get airborne and fully extend, a suspension transducer-based measurement would think the aero package just made the car take flight!

Watching the video again, I would bet $ the downforce graph is being produced based on a formula off their speed data. Once you know downforce at a given speed, or the cL for your package, speed is all you really need to know, to know downforce. While the downforce vs. speed may not exactly match the curve I mentioned earlier ((speed^2)/22.5) due to small nuances in airflow throughout the vehicle's speed range, it is a sufficiently accurate approximation for something going into a Youtube video...:D

George, the devices you speak of, like suspension displacement transducers, or shock absorber load cells, are used by high-end race teams to help sort the suspension/chassis/aero packages of their race car. They might also be used by OEMs throughout vehicle development, though in that setting the goals are more compromised towards street civility.

High end race teams invest huge $$ in data acquisition gear, and will likely have a full-time team of "data guys" whose job is it to set up the sensors, collect and interpret the data, and turn that information into feedback the chassis team and driver can use to make improvements. This is in addition to all the data collected around engine and drivetrain operation, as well as the driver's throttle, steering, and brake inputs.

What I think is great is how some of this awesome technology has trickled down and become attainable at the amateur ranks. Today for a couple grand we can get compact data and video acquisitions systems (like the DL-1 or Chasecam systems) that in the Mark Donohue days, would have cost hundreds of thousands of dollars and filled multiple trucks/vans with bulky equipment.
 
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