Advice for first time on a track with stock '02 GTS

[Detlef]

Advice for first time on a track with stock \'02 GTS

A friend of mine invite me to join the Porsche club at a local track event next week. I have never been on a track with my '02 GTS and was wondering if it is wise to even take a stock Viper on the track. I wouldn't be pushing the car too hard being a novice, but from reading other posts, it seems that my brakes will give out within 20 minutes or so. I can't justify a StopTech type upgrade at this time and am mechanically intimidated when it comes to doing brake work as well. Any hints or words of wisdom from all the track-experts.

 

[Bugeater]

Re: Advice for first time on a track with stock \'02 GTS

Your brakes wont give out in 20 minutes if you have never been on a track. Newbies tend to use alot less than the limit (even stock brake). You have an ABS car so your in better shape than you think.

What I would worry about is the track temps and your tires, and allowing them to warm up before driving at any limit. Again, being new to the track this may not be an issue, but be aware that any throttle you give the car the first 2 laps should be in the straights.

And yes, it is VERY WISE to take a stock Viper on the track.

BTW, Where in the heck can you run a car in December in Colorado??? I'm jealous!

 

[NascarDave]

Re: Advice for first time on a track with stock \'02 GTS

2002 GTS G/C,
Go to the track and drive at your own pace. Bugeater is
right about the track and tire temps. Don't push it
much. When spring arrives, come to a Viper Days event.
There you can push it with people who know how to push
a viper, not people who know how to push a porsche.

my .02,

DN

 

[SapphireGTS]

Re: Advice for first time on a track with stock \'02 GTS

racing 101: Either have your foot on the gas or your foot on the brake. Be prepared to be made fun of. A good porsche driver on a tight track is tough to beat.

GOOD LUCK and have fun.

Oh yeah. Dont downshift in the turns. Downshift before the turns when you are mashing on the brake. Its pretty easy to lose a high torque car downshifting into second when the car isnt straight.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Re: Advice for first time on a track with stock \'02 GTS

Agree with everyone here. Except I kind of disagree with Bug about the newbs on brakes. Sometimes rookies will lay on them for a much longer time than needed and end up burning them up quicker. But don't let that bother you. You have ABS - USE IT!!! Lay on those suckas as hard as you can to find out how the car and you should react to it.

 

[Detlef]

Re: Advice for first time on a track with stock \'02 GTS

Thanks for all the advice. Track time will be weather permitting of course but we have over 300 sunny days in Colorado (in the plains, not the mountains) to permit December outtings.

 

[luc]

Re: Advice for first time on a track with stock \'02 GTS

Don't worry about being fast.
Work on being SMOOTH, meaning all car inputs, such as braking,steering,gas need to be done without any "jerkiness"
Learn the line (turn-in,apex,turn-out)and use ALL the track.
It is a common mistake with rookie not to use all the track since they are not going very fast.

 

[snowmann]

Re: Advice for first time on a track with stock \'02 GTS

Thanks for all the advice. Track time will be weather permitting of course but we have over 300 sunny days in Colorado (in the plains, not the mountains) to permit December outtings.

What event are you thinking about going too? I have a friend in the Porche club out here in Colorado too that is always begging me to take my Viper out. Maybe those Porche guys are out to get us.

 

[Janni]

Re: Advice for first time on a track with stock \'02 GTS

Get your brake fluid flushed.

Use the whole track - you paid for it. Good advice.

Get to know your ABS - use the brakes HARD at first, do not "ease" onto them, then got OFF them.

Slow in, fast out.... And being smooth is the best thing you can concentrate on.

And HAVE FUN!!!!

 

[ChrisGTS]

Re: Advice for first time on a track with stock \'02 GTS

I have taken my totally-stock GTS on the track (see avatar picture) and there is no reason you cannot do the same. As far as mechanical issues go, I highly recommend that you change your brake fluid with Motul 600, ATE Super Blue, Catrol SRF or some other high-temperature brake fluid. I had ZERO brake fade after two days of driving at the Barber Motorsports Park in Alabama, which has some heavy (downhill) braking. However, with stock fluid, especially if it has been in the car a long time, you run a much higher risk of having brake fade. That would be unpleasant and could potentially cause an accident.
You also may want to look at how much pad you have left on your brake pads -- having too little increases heat transfer, which isn't good, and you also run the risk of running out of pad when you are on the track. I used my stock pads and had no problems.
The advice about driving your pace, being smooth, and downshifting and braking in a straight line is all good advice. In addition, someone mentioned tire temperatures. One thing to watch for is that your tires can get too hot and, more importantly, can get too high in pressure. This makes a gigantic difference in how they grip. During one session, I could feel my tires going away, and when I got off the track, they were at 41psi -- that's why! So check your pressures after every session and make sure they don't get too high.
The main thing to keep in mind is that you are not racing and you are not out there to prove how fast you and your car are. Enjoy the experience and try to leave your ego behind. People wreck at these track events all the time trying to push too hard. We don't want to see that happen to anyone, so take it easy out there.

 

[Detlef]

Re: Advice for first time on a track with stock \'02 GTS

Sent you PM JF58854777

 

[Detlef]

Re: Advice for first time on a track with stock \'02 GTS

What is the recommended front and back tire pressure for stock 18" Michelins. I plan to keep them at the recommende 29PSI settings both front and rear. Comments?

 

[Bugeater]

Re: Advice for first time on a track with stock \'02 GTS

I run 39 psi front, maybe a half pound less rear. These are readings HOT. I would start out at 33 pounds all the way around and see what your tread wear looks like at the end of a session. If you are using the entire tread width, you are pretty close to being on the mark. 29 is tooooo low.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Re: Advice for first time on a track with stock \'02 GTS

Chris, how did you like the Barber track? Looks like fun.

 

[jrkermode]

Re: Advice for first time on a track with stock \'02 GTS

The only things I did on my 02 graphite GTS, was brake fluid (Motul 600) and Porsche air deflectors. I even left the tires at stock pressure. I got 2 days of track time before I needed new brake pads, and I'm still on stock tires after 4 events and 13,000 miles.

The only reason I can see for a brake upgrade on an ABS car, is to reduce brake wear/costs. I completely used up a brand new set of Porterfields (front and rear) in about 4 hours at Thunderhill. However, the stock brakes bite well enough to engage the ABS, and I did not experience any fade until my pads were used up.

You have to be careful in reading the brake advice on this forum. I don't think it's bad, it's just not all applicable to your situation. Many folks have non-ABS cars. Many also have engine mods which make their car faster than stock, putting a greater strain on the brakes. Still others run slicks/hoosiers/etc which again asks more of the brakes. For example, a pre-ABS Viper Days SuperStock car has very different needs then a bone Stock ABS car.

 

[Russ Oasis]

Re: Advice for first time on a track with stock \'02 GTS

What Janni said is correct! The MOST important thing you can do for your brakes (therefore your car and your a**) is to COMPLETELY flush out the old brake fluid and replace it. Even if your fluid is only 1 year old, it is too old. You have no idea the difference that one thing will make. Don't even question this...just do it.

 

[Saleen-Explorer]

Re: Advice for first time on a track with stock \'02 GTS

ONE thing to remember, don't get discouraged easily out there against Porsches with your 1st time out tracking. Especially the 996TT's, they are basically neck and neck with Vipers with both drivers being equal and a lot more easier to drive. Some guys might have barely had any track time but will kick a$$ b/c of the cars electronics and awd.

Just be careful, I've seen people in situations like this tend to get to agressive on the throttle just to keep up or try to catch up and end up spinning out or worse. Just go at your own rate that your comfortable with.

Plus I highly doubt they would make fun of you out there or something, the Porsche club guys (for the most part) are awsome and are fully aware of the skill it takes to drive a Viper at hard limits on a track.

Good Luck

 

[Paul Hawker]

Re: Advice for first time on a track with stock \'02 GTS

Your stock brakes usually give you a warning just before going away at the track. Just before stock brake fluid boils, you will feel like the braking is "going away". The next corner it will be "gone". If you feel like your brakes are losing effectiveness, simply come in, and let them cool down. Consider this "fade" warning shot.
Do not let these warnings dissuade you from taking your car to the track. Vipers are very track capable in stock form.
Upgrading your fluid is the easiest, and cheapest enhancement you can do.

 

[Cobra4B]

Re: Advice for first time on a track with stock \'02 GTS

Everyone on here has given you great advice. Considering that you're driving a car w/ 500 rwtq and no traction control there's a good chance you could spin. Here's a "tip" I learned at Panoz and many racers know it.

If you spin, both feet it. When in doubt, both feet out.

Basically, if you feel the car get "wierd" take your feet away from the controls and let the car steady. If the back end kicks out you've got one chance to save it. If the rear end gets out farther than you can provide steering wheel input, there's nothing you can do. For simplicity, if your front wheels can turn 45 degrees in either direction max, when the back end gets out over 45 degrees there's nothing you can do to save it. Thus, if you spin don't try to fight it b/c you can't. Smash the clutch and the brake it. The car will spin but it will continue moving in the direction that you were going, which is down the center of the track. Remembering this tip can save you a wreck!

 

[Paolo Castellano]

Re: Advice for first time on a track with stock \'02 GTS

For the first time at the track, I recommend 2 things:

1. Do not try to be a hero and set the world on fire with your lap times.

2. Have a good road course driver show you the line, do some easy laps trying to hit the proper line/apex points. After some practice have them go around with you again to see how well you are doing. Once you can hit all the proper points at a certain speed, then incrementally pump up the volume!

 

[ChrisGTS]

Re: Advice for first time on a track with stock \'02 GTS

Chuck --
The Barber track is a beautiful, modern, safe race track. The elevation changes are interesting, but not as extreme as Road Atlanta. It is extremely busy and has no long straights, which was the only frustrating thing. I would barely get into 4th gear and I was maxing out at around 100mph. It definitely puts a premium on maintaining speed through corners and does not really reward a high-horsepower car the way Road Atlanta does. I would probably go back there if the events were not so crowded -- the PCA event I did there had 180 drivers!

I am thinking about going to CMP for my next track event.

On the subject of tire pressures, starting at 33 sounds OK, but it will also depend on ambient and track temperature. At Barber in April, when it was very hot, my tires were gaining 8-9psi in every session. As I mentioned before, they worked up to 41psi at one point and they felt horrible. So, next time I go to the track, if it's hot, I will probably start at 30 or 31 cold. If it's cooler, 33 sounds right.

Finally, one other piece of advice that comes to mind on brakes: be sure to do a cool-down lap before you come into the pits. Try not to use the brakes at all, but drive with enough speed that you will be running air over your brakes and radiator. This is essential to cooling down your brakes and preventing boiling of the brake fluid.

 

[VIPORXXX]

Re: Advice for first time on a track with stock \'02 GTS

I did a quick read of the posts.
Alot of great advice.
DRIVE WITH AN INSTRUCTOR FIRST.
Paolo said it best...A good road course instructor who is familar with the track will be time well spent. Also take the opportunity if you can to ride with an experienced person in there car. This way you can concentrate on his line, brake points, turn in points etc. Just remember take it easy...your not (yet) experienced

I remember my first time 4 years ago. If you follow some of the advice here, have "your car prepared" and get "good instruction" it will be a fantastic day for you.

Have FUN,
Fast Eddie

 

[Mike 99ACR]

Re: Advice for first time on a track with stock \'02 GTS

What ever you do stay FOCUSED on what your doing. If you don't you might miss a shift and go into a lower gear while accelerating causing instant spin , not fun and will scare the sh*t out of you. Don't worry about what the other cars are doing because there will always be someone faster. I'm telling you this cause this is what I need to do.

 

[Doc.]

Re: Advice for first time on a track with stock \'02 GTS

Great advise from everyone. Also, do not put on the emergency brake when you come in from a session. You can weld the brakes to the rotor from the heat.
Have a great time,Doc

 

[GTS Dean]

Re: Advice for first time on a track with stock \'02 GTS

PCA events are fun in a Viper. You'll no doubt get an instructor that will attempt to show you "the line." This will be fine until after you've run a couple of Viper Days events. Then you find that the Porsche line and the Viper line are not the same.

A frequent Viper beginner (and even some experienced trackies) mistake is to use the brakes too often and for too long. Continued light or very early braking will overheat the brakes and you can have problems with not enough time on the straights to cool them between applications. Use good fluid, keep it fresh.

Don't jump on or off the throttle suddenly. The Viper doesn't respond well to herky-jerky power input.

After you've gotten 3 or 4 track weekends under your belt, then you need to check back here and get some tips on tire pressures and alignments.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Re: Advice for first time on a track with stock \'02 GTS

What ever you do stay FOCUSED on what your doing. If you don't you might miss a shift and go into a lower gear while accelerating causing instant spin , not fun and will scare the sh*t out of you. Don't worry about what the other cars are doing because there will always be someone faster. I'm telling you this cause this is what I need to do.

Y'know Mikey I was cussing you out and making excuses as you passed me through Bishop's Bend but when I came around 16 a couple turns later and saw you facing me I flipped you the bird with a smile.

But you aint gonna be spinning out every time. I gotta get some Hoosiers or I'll never catch you.

 

[Mike 99ACR]

Re: Advice for first time on a track with stock \'02 GTS

You probably flipped me a double bird when I caught back up and passed you again. kinda like that but maybe different fingers.