Am I in trouble here?

[kcobean]

Any plans to re-dyno it? Since it seems to be working fine, you should be back in the normal dyno #'s for a yellow Viper...right around 350RWHP. Glad you found your missing 2RWHP

I would like to re-dyno it, hopefully this week. The car pulled 413 corrected on the same dyno about this same time last year, I'd hope to see those numbers again.

 

[kcobean]

Glad to hear you got your problem straightened out. Did you check the wires? Could just have been a bad ignition wire causing the plug to foul.

Not really sure how to check the wires. I didn't see any burn marks or anything that might indicate arcing. I guess I could stick an ohm-meter on that #10 wire and see if it shows a higher resistance than the others?

 

[kcobean]

I would pull the #10 plug again and make sure that it isn't starting to get loaded back up with oil even though it seems to be running OK. If you have a cylinder or head problem, new plugs may make the symptom go away for a while, but will eventually fail again in the same fashion once the plug fouls out.

If it still looks good after some run-time, then I would assume you had a bad plug wire or it wasn't connected to the plug well on #10.

After I put a few more miles on it, I'll definitely do that. I only drove it 5 or 6 miles this morning after getting it good and warmed up. You're right though, this definitely could have been a temporary fix to a larger problem. That would be my luck.

 

[plumcrazy]

buy a set of AB's wires before the dyno if ya ask me. but definitely check that plug after a couple few miles are on it

glad to hear it.....

 

[kcobean]

buy a set of AB's wires before the dyno if ya ask me. but definitely check that plug after a couple few miles are on it

glad to hear it.....

Ab's wires is what I just pulled off!

 

[plumcrazy]

then im sure if there was something wrong with it, he'd back it up.

look into it and maybe call him to see exactly how to check them.

 

[kcobean]

then im sure if there was something wrong with it, he'd back it up.

look into it and maybe call him to see exactly how to check them.

Yep, I'm not calling out Ab's product in the least, particularly since I don't have a definitive cause at this point. For all I know, this could be something much larger that as someone suggested before, I'm just putting a bandaid on by changing the plugs and wires.

Anyway, I went out and put another 10 or 15 miles on the car tonight. As soon as it cools off, I'll pull that plug back out and give it a look see. I'm hoping it's dry.

 

[FE 065]

For the most part, a plug heavily coated with oil wouldn't be due to any sort of ignition problem. An ignition problem would show a plug coated with raw gasoline...

My '01 ACR Bumblebee and I are pulling for a miracle cure for your problem though.

 

[EllowViper]

Post a photo of the plug you replaced in #10. I'm curious if its oil or just fouled. Also, one may have broken the ceramic insulator at some point too changing wires and/or installing plugs.

 

[kcobean]

I just pulled the fresh #10 plug, and it too is oil soaked, so I'm sure it's only a matter of time until this problem reoccurs.

ETA: Not sure if it's just coincidence or not, but the coolant leak I'm battling with is right back in the #10 cylinder area and I can't for the life of me figure out where the coolant is coming from. It's getting the plug wires wet where they go back behind the engine to get to the coils, and also the inside wall of the heater core box and down onto the little horizontal shelf just aft of the #10 cylinder.

 

[Fast Viper Dan]

My guess, Head Gasket???

 

[NZGTS]

Should do a compression Check and a coolant pressure test(both tools are relitivly cheep to buy) the coolant pressure tester is like a air pump that connects to where your radiator cap fits. pump it up and then you will be able to see the pressure drop and maybe where it is leaking.
But I still think you should do the compression test first, quick and fast way to tell if you have a big problem.
you could also do an oil sample which will show if there are excessive metal traces,from what the metal is it can pinpoint a fault.

All these things are realitivly cheap to do and you can do them yourself

still would not be driving it untill this is sorted,lot of money to blow up if it goes bang on a test drive.

 

[carguy07]

I just pulled the fresh #10 plug, and it too is oil soaked, so I'm sure it's only a matter of time until this problem reoccurs.

ETA: Not sure if it's just coincidence or not, but the coolant leak I'm battling with is right back in the #10 cylinder area and I can't for the life of me figure out where the coolant is coming from. It's getting the plug wires wet where they go back behind the engine to get to the coils, and also the inside wall of the heater core box and down onto the little horizontal shelf just aft of the #10 cylinder.

Use some carb cleaner to check for an intake manifold leak. I doubt a head gasket would get any significant coolant on the wires. I think most antifreeze is conductive and will have your wires misfiring too.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Sometimes you can spot a bad wire by misting it with water while running. The broken insulation will "click" and / or show a spark jumping to ground.

The intake manifold leak can't **** in oil - unlike old V8s, the bottom of the manifold is dry.

A bad valve stem seal will consume oil. Under high vacuum conditions (idle, cruise) it will **** lots of oil. If the compression test is OK, then maybe this is reason.

On a Gen1, the hard to find coolant leak was a hose rubbing on a firewall part and the heater cable - and only leaked under pressure. It landed just where you said - the little horizontal shelf.

Good luck.

 

[KenH]

You could always take the redneck approach and put a real hot plug in that cylinder

I believe #10 cylinder tends to run the hottest due to it's location. Have you had any overheating issues recently - perhaps scored the cylinder walls?

 

[99 R/T 10]

When I installed my Roe S/C, I noticed a LOT of oil residue in the intake manifold. Most of which being drawn to the #10 cylinder. I think the biggest reason for this is the PCV tube that ***** back the vapors from inside the engine(which also lowers the octane rating). If you installed a oil catch can, I think you'll find a large part of the problem will disappear. You can get a tremendous amount of oil into the intake box if you have a tendancey to hit the brakes hard.

 

[plumcrazy]

id get a call in to tator and get his advice for sure.

im betting valve problem

 

[kcobean]

id get a call in to tator and get his advice for sure.

im betting valve problem

I spoke with Chuck today. He gave me some good solid next steps. The man is a guru.

 

[Twister]

Feel me in on whats happening brother. As Im having pretty much the same problem..

I hAVE A 2003 srt10 WITH..

-ROLLER ROCKERS
-kn FILTERS
-MUFFLER DELETE/CAT DELETE/RAIN BAFFLE DELETE...

A few weeks ago I noticed the car had a tremendous loss in power felt like around 300 rwhp when really it has 470 rwhp..

Took it to the shop and had the spark plugs changed due to the Check engine light telling me about

-P300
-P308
-P307

Changed the plugs out and put in some fresh ones gapped at .35. To my amazement the 7 and 8 cylinders looked passable..

But the number 10 was just BLACKED OUT man...

So like I said we changed the plugs and I took her for a 5 mile spin..felt much better..

went back to dyno her the next day and got a whopping 328 rwhp with the power dropping off around 3000-3500 rpm's...

The car still feels fast as hell down low but a DOG past 3500ish rpm's....

In taking mine to a vipertech tomorrow. Ill let you know what it ends up being

 

[kcobean]

I'm finally back from a hellish week in Atlanta and I wanted to update everyone who has been so kind to pitch in on this thread.

We had our Fall Cruise last weekend here in the VA/MD region...it was a great opportunity to really get out and have FUN with the car. I didn't have time to pull the plug out and re-check it after the drive before I left for Atlanta, but I did get the chance tonight.

Remember I'm dealing with this ANNOYING coolant leak that I can't track down? Well, this time, I pulled the plug wire off and the boot was...wet. I shoved a paper towel down the plug shield tube....there was coolant on it...dirty orange/brown coolant....coolant that looks and feels just like....oil.

So I pulled the plug out and the plug is....DRY!!!

I'll re-do this check again after some more driving, but my theory at this point is that the coolant that's blowing around back in the right rear corner of the engine is getting down in the plug shield. Probably enough of it got down there to affect the conductivity of the wire/plug connection and that affected ignition enough to cause the P0310 code I got. The 'oil' on the plug last time I pulled it out may have actually been coolant that flowed down into the spark-plug hole as the plug was coming out...it's very hard to tell. I took some oil from the valve cover filler hole and put it on my finger, then I took some of the coolant from that hole and put it on my finger...they look and feel sooooo similar.

So anyway, I'm going to get the car out and drive it some more, but I suspect fixing my coolant leak (however I do that), will ultimately 'fix' this issue, which isn't really an issue after all.

 

[Qualitywires.com]

Kcobean,

If it's the wires, there's a life time garauntee on any defective wires as long as they are not abused such as pulling them off by the wire instead of the boot. Don't worry about the wires, I will back it up if it's that. It sounds like it may not be the wires from what you described. I would do a simple leak down test and see what it comes back as. Spark plugs will tell you the condition of the engine..but like the post said above, even if it were the wires, you wouldn't have the issue with the oil on the plugs. If it were me, I would do the leak down test. if you don't have a leakdown tester, I will mail you mine to borrow if you need it.

Let me know what I can do to help.

 

[kcobean]

Kcobean,

If it's the wires, there's a life time garauntee on any defective wires as long as they are not abused such as pulling them off by the wire instead of the boot. Don't worry about the wires, I will back it up if it's that. It sounds like it may not be the wires from what you described. I would do a simple leak down test and see what it comes back as. Spark plugs will tell you the condition of the engine..but like the post said above, even if it were the wires, you wouldn't have the issue with the oil on the plugs. If it were me, I would do the leak down test. if you don't have a leakdown tester, I will mail you mine to borrow if you need it.

Let me know what I can do to help.

Thanks very much Adam. The wires hadn't ever been removed from the plugs prior to this, so no unnecessary pulling going on. I have no way to ascertain whether that #10 wire was the problem, so I'm not pointing any fingers. The wires have been on the car for a year and ran fine up to this point, so they're likely not the issue.

I'm gonna get the car to the shop ASAP and get a leakdown test done, just to be sure. If it comes back good, I'll nail down this coolant issue and go from there.

The car ran flawlessly during the cruise, no hint of the former hesitation or missing, so hopefully I'm not facing an expensive repair here.

 

[Qualitywires.com]

I hope everything turns out well and it's something simple. Keep me posted. I will back you up.

 

[AZTVR]

I'm gonna get the car to the shop ASAP and get a leakdown test done, just to be sure. If it comes back good, I'll nail down this coolant issue and go from there.

Seems like there is no need to rush to get it to the shop, at this point. If there was a problem that would damage your engine like was suggested previously by others, that was probably already done during your recent trip.

Obviously, when you take it to the shop, tell them the problem with the coolant, and they should be able to find the leak if they are at all competent. If you only ask for a specific test, they won't necessarily do those tests needed to identify the coolant leak. They can add dye and look for the leak at running temperature, or they can pressurize the coolant system and listen for where the air escapes and use soapy water to find the air leak, or look for coolant leak if it is below the water line, etc.

 

[kcobean]

I know this thread is a bit old, but I wanted to update it just for historical purposes...

It seems my coolant leak was in fact due to a leaky clamp on one of the heater hoses. I replaced the spring clamps awhile ago with worm-type clamps when I first noticed the leak, but apparently I didn't get one of them tight enough, so the leak I was trying to fix persisted. A local Viper-tech caught the loose clamp during state inspection and was able to put a couple of turns on the worm screw. (And to think I used to work on million dollar helicopters for a living!)

Also, Peter Lee from ISP Racing drove out to my house on Saturday with his compression tester (Thanks Peter, you are the man!) and we ran a compression test on the car. We did this with the motor cold (it was in the mid-20's here and we didn't warm the car up prior to the test). The numbers were:

1: 170 . 2: 145
3: 170 . 4: 160
5: 135 . 6: 140
7: 175 . 8: 140
9: *** . 10: 155

We didn't test #9 because it was FREEZING outside (below freezing actually, even in the garage) and I wasn't energetic enough to pull the wiper shroud to get the plug out.

So, while there seems to be some variation (that could have been due to cold temps and distribution of oil in the cylinders as we got further into the test), #10's compression was fine and the P0310 code I got late last year was probably due to a coolant soaked wire or wires.

I've got the airbox and blower removed right now so I'm going to clean everything up real well back in that corner where the heater core is to get the coolant off of everything and make sure my leak is in fact gone.

 

[RTTTTed]

I'd redo the compression test under better conditions as those numbers don't look good.

The average lower numbers an the passenger side of the engine normally indicate a loss of compression due to higher mileage. Industry standard is the compression is good enough until the variance is over 10%. Number 5 is way off. A leakdown test may indicate if just a head rebuild would be all that you need or if it's the rings that are bad.

With a compression test you can add a couple drops of oil into the cylinder and do a second test. If the compression goes up significantly then your problem is the rings, if it doesn't go up very much - the problem is mostly the valves.

Ted

 

[kcobean]

I'd redo the compression test under better conditions as those numbers don't look good.

The average lower numbers an the passenger side of the engine normally indicate a loss of compression due to higher mileage. Industry standard is the compression is good enough until the variance is over 10%. Number 5 is way off. A leakdown test may indicate if just a head rebuild would be all that you need or if it's the rings that are bad.

With a compression test you can add a couple drops of oil into the cylinder and do a second test. If the compression goes up significantly then your problem is the rings, if it doesn't go up very much - the problem is mostly the valves.

Ted

Hey Ted,
Do you think the sub-freezing temps had anything to do with the numbers being what they were? Are these tests normally done with the engine warmed up?

 

[plumcrazy]

i like when people fill in the blanks with the answer on how it turned out.

 

[plumcrazy]

again id call tator and see what his opinion is.

 

[kcobean]

again id call tator and see what his opinion is.

On the phone with him now.