any news besides this from the ny auto show

FLL-B/W-GTS

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PeterMJ Your a wise man in considering a new 911 Porsche 991 Turbo.I am on my second new Turbo S. They are outstanding is every way...As for the new Z06,that car will be a animal at the drag strip and on the street..Should be able to hang with a Turbo S in the 10s stock..As for the track,I owned a ZR1 for several years and it ran outstanding on the track and I had no heat soak issues.Additional,I ran the shixx out of a GM ZR1 at Spring Mountain in Nv,all day long with no heat soak issues...Summary,I really think a Gen.5 is way better looking than the C7s,but that Z06 will be off the charts performance wise with the fast shifting Automatic Trans...I believe GM purposely will price it the new Z06 very low to really hurt it competition ......We know who that is...

SRT really needs some big HP increases for the Gen.5 and be more realistic on the pricing for the Viper to survive....Unlock that computer or make available factory parts for those who want to mod their car...
 

TrackAire

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Go to the movies. The stupidity of this situation is right down impressive: I pointed out factual problems with the new CORVETTE Z06 only to see people like you attack me, here, on VIPER forum. I was not criticizing the Viper, in fact, I was pointing out its superiority but apparently you and others feel otherwise?:rolleyes:

LOL at your naïve attitude regarding car manufacturers being interested in good engineering, GM is too cheap to spend FIFTY SEVEN CENTS but judging after your statements, good marketing is all they need to sell to people like you. Now, I am done with you and others, good discussion requires knowledge and intellectual stimulation and you lack both of these qualities. Go back to defending Corvette and have a laxative before your bedtime.

Come to think about it, your ignorance is not a bad thing, maybe price of Vipers will go down even more. I am in the market for a car but gotta tell you that people like you and Chrysler dealers make more and more look toward Porsche 911 Turbo (if I cannot find a Rossion) as my daily driver. And thanks for even more free publicity for my blog:2tu:

Peter,

I do not defend the Corvette.
I do not defend the Viper.
I defend the Laws of Physics.

When things are said that defy the basic laws of a high school physics class, I speak up. I have yet to meet anybody that has been able to defy the laws of physics. I did read through some of your blog, much of which is or potentially is correct (example: why did GM chose a double overdrive manual and is the automatic version going to be able to stay cool on a road race track for 20 to 30 minutes at a time, especially on the Vert without the vents?). If you read my posts about the Vette in any forum, you'll see I'd never buy a new one regardless of the performance, looks or price. But I am on the hunt for a 1963 Grand Sport replica, so I am not anti Vette, it just has to be the right one.

If you think that there are flaws in the new C7 that GM is just glossing over, I can promise you there are serious flaws in the Viper platforms also. Some are documented, some are more behind the scenes that most people don't even know about. With the Vette market being so huge in comparison, there is going to be a lot more things that will be brought up since it so much more public.

The Rossion would make an epic track day car.....you can never beat light weight when it comes to track use.....and most importantly you won't see one down at EuroSunday.

Popcorn bag #2 is just about ready:D
 

ViperSmith

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Peter,

I do not defend the Corvette.
I do not defend the Viper.
I defend the Laws of Physics.

When things are said that defy the basic laws of a high school physics class, I speak up. I have yet to meet anybody that has been able to defy the laws of physics. I did read through some of your blog, much of which is or potentially is correct (example: why did GM chose a double overdrive manual and is the automatic version going to be able to stay cool on a road race track for 20 to 30 minutes at a time, especially on the Vert without the vents?). If you read my posts about the Vette in any forum, you'll see I'd never buy a new one regardless of the performance, looks or price. But I am on the hunt for a 1963 Grand Sport replica, so I am not anti Vette, it just has to be the right one.

If you think that there are flaws in the new C7 that GM is just glossing over, I can promise you there are serious flaws in the Viper platforms also. Some are documented, some are more behind the scenes that most people don't even know about. With the Vette market being so huge in comparison, there is going to be a lot more things that will be brought up since it so much more public.

The Rossion would make an epic track day car.....you can never beat light weight when it comes to track use.....and most importantly you won't see one down at EuroSunday.

Popcorn bag #2 is just about ready:D
Oh, he complains plenty about the Viper too, though not as much lately

http://srtviperdoa.blogspot.ca/
 

05Commemorative

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I am still confused. The C7 is heavier and less HP, but the same old story is the Gen5 needs more HP to compete?

What is the C7 downforce figures? does anyone know?

I really just wanted to get some facts on this because if the Gen5 had less HP (625), weight 200lbs more and had an automatic, would we be raving calling it a monster to be feared? I guess I am missing some key facts here somewhere.
 

HANKFAN

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I am still confused. The C7 is heavier and less HP, but the same old story is the Gen5 needs more HP to compete?

What is the C7 downforce figures? does anyone know?

I really just wanted to get some facts on this because if the Gen5 had less HP (625), weight 200lbs more and had an automatic, would we be raving calling it a monster to be feared? I guess I am missing some key facts here somewhere.

The C7 can be tuned and modded, the Gen V can not. That is the difference and it is a huge difference!
 

PeterMJ

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PeterMJ Your a wise man in considering a new 911 Porsche 991 Turbo.I am on my second new Turbo S. They are outstanding is every way...As for the new Z06,that car will be a animal at the drag strip and on the street..Should be able to hang with a Turbo S in the 10s stock..As for the track,I owned a ZR1 for several years and it ran outstanding on the track and I had no heat soak issues.Additional,I ran the shixx out of a GM ZR1 at Spring Mountain in Nv,all day long with no heat soak issues...Summary,I really think a Gen.5 is way better looking than the C7s,but that Z06 will be off the charts performance wise with the fast shifting Automatic Trans...I believe GM purposely will price it the new Z06 very low to really hurt it competition ......We know who that is...

SRT really needs some big HP increases for the Gen.5 and be more realistic on the pricing for the Viper to survive....Unlock that computer or make available factory parts for those who want to mod their car...
Must be nice, LOL. I set my bar lower, a slightly used one and with manual transmission although I am still hoping a Rossion shows up in the meantime. Dealing with Porsche dealers is considerably more enjoyable than with Chrysler salesmen, I already figured this one out.

As to heat soak in ZR1 and C7 Z06, I do not think you can extrapolate anything due to VVT, DI and different superchargers being used on the new car. GM is good at marketing but if you pay attention, you will notice that there is very little info released regarding actual performance figures, unlike with the previous generation. Personally, I think the new Z06 is a dud, just like the C7 is altogether. Enough for me to get out of Corvettes altogether.
 

05Commemorative

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oh, so we are comparing a stock car to a modded version of a car that does not exist yet? you guys crack me up. I guess then a person would have to create their own silly hp badges to put on the dash and the motor to state its modded #'s because how embarrassing it would be to post the stock #'s...

Seriously, this is a silly conversation for the following reasons:
1) if I wanted to go to a drag strip and run the fastest times with no limitation of modding the car, I would not choose a Viper or a Vette as not their primary purpose. So many better cars for the strip.
2) if I want to go to the track (road course) on the other hand, I am not taking a car with a blower on it and certainly not one I am modifying the pully with. Viper would seem to be the obvious choice.
3) if going to the car show to "brag", definitely not taking a vette simply because it is hideous to look at (my opinion)

So, remind me again how this conversation is interesting to anybody other than a poser that's wants to talk about how much HP they have after they modded the car? If you believe both of these cars were designed for the track (road course) because of the aero on the Z07, then why are we talking about modding the motor for more HP when we should be discussing how it corners, brakes, etc. In that area, we only know the C7 weighs more and have no data (that I know of) on how much downforce the car has.

The C7 can be tuned and modded, the Gen V can not. That is the difference and it is a huge difference!
 

PeterMJ

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The C7 can be tuned and modded, the Gen V can not. That is the difference and it is a huge difference!
Actually, it cannot be, at least not in a comprehensive way as the previous generation of Corvette was. Tuning a car with DI and cam phaser with 62 deg is not that easily done, not to mention the matter of emissions. This is actually a big misconception. This is also a reason why there is only one emissions legal supercharging system for Corvette C7, Callaway and why it is limited to 610 hp.
 

PeterMJ

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oh, so we are comparing a stock car to a modded version of a car that does not exist yet? you guys crack me up. I guess then a person would have to create their own silly hp badges to put on the dash and the motor to state its modded #'s because how embarrassing it would be to post the stock #'s...

Seriously, this is a silly conversation for the following reasons:
1) if I wanted to go to a drag strip and run the fastest times with no limitation of modding the car, I would not choose a Viper or a Vette as not their primary purpose. So many better cars for the strip.
2) if I want to go to the track (road course) on the other hand, I am not taking a car with a blower on it and certainly not one I am modifying the pully with. Viper would seem to be the obvious choice.
3) if going to the car show to "brag", definitely not taking a vette simply because it is hideous to look at (my opinion)

So, remind me again how this conversation is interesting to anybody other than a poser that's wants to talk about how much HP they have after they modded the car? If you believe both of these cars were designed for the track (road course) because of the aero on the Z07, then why are we talking about modding the motor for more HP when we should be discussing how it corners, brakes, etc. In that area, we only know the C7 weighs more and have no data (that I know of) on how much downforce the car has.
How come you are the only guy here that gets this stuff? Asking rhetorically, of course.
 

PeterMJ

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I am still confused. The C7 is heavier and less HP, but the same old story is the Gen5 needs more HP to compete?

What is the C7 downforce figures? does anyone know?

I really just wanted to get some facts on this because if the Gen5 had less HP (625), weight 200lbs more and had an automatic, would we be raving calling it a monster to be feared? I guess I am missing some key facts here somewhere.
you are missing the kool aid factor:D What impresses me the most about C7 is the salesmanship of Juechter and others. This guy is good, really good, blowing smoke that is... The fact that there are so many believers out there, including Viper owners, makes it even better.
 

FLL-B/W-GTS

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Before you buy a stick 911 Turbo,go drive a(2010-13) 997 Turbo S w/PDK on Sport Mode and Launch it,you will be do rowing gears by hand....
 

PeterMJ

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Peter,

I do not defend the Corvette.
I do not defend the Viper.
I defend the Laws of Physics.

When things are said that defy the basic laws of a high school physics class, I speak up. I have yet to meet anybody that has been able to defy the laws of physics. I did read through some of your blog, much of which is or potentially is correct (example: why did GM chose a double overdrive manual and is the automatic version going to be able to stay cool on a road race track for 20 to 30 minutes at a time, especially on the Vert without the vents?). If you read my posts about the Vette in any forum, you'll see I'd never buy a new one regardless of the performance, looks or price. But I am on the hunt for a 1963 Grand Sport replica, so I am not anti Vette, it just has to be the right one.

If you think that there are flaws in the new C7 that GM is just glossing over, I can promise you there are serious flaws in the Viper platforms also. Some are documented, some are more behind the scenes that most people don't even know about. With the Vette market being so huge in comparison, there is going to be a lot more things that will be brought up since it so much more public.

The Rossion would make an epic track day car.....you can never beat light weight when it comes to track use.....and most importantly you won't see one down at EuroSunday.

Popcorn bag #2 is just about ready:D
I am fully aware there are flaws in Viper design, this is why I have a Viper blog as well... Around here, I keep things civilized. Overall, I think Viper is a better choice, regardless of its shortcomings because it is more true to its origins.
 

PeterMJ

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Before you buy a stick 911 Turbo,go drive a(2010-13) 997 Turbo S w/PDK on Sport Mode and Launch it,you will be do rowing gears by hand....
I have not had an automatic in my entire life and I make sure everyone in my family drives a stick. I do not deny that modern DCT carries technological advantages and is faster than manual but not for me... I hope I can use both feet until I die, LOL...
 

elanderholm

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I never expected to see any USA manufacturer put on something so extreme and functional on a mainstream car (this is even more radical than the Gen 4 ACR).
Give me the numbers. There is no chance it makes more downforce than the gen iv acr. You are smoking the good stuff. I will eat my hat if it makes more than 1200-1500 lbs at 150. The splitter extender on the acr isn't even street legal.

It took this:
You must be registered for see images attach

For mclaren to tie/beat (barely) the specs of the Gen IV ACR with splitter extender and adjustable autoclaved carbon fiber wing at the greatest attack angle.
No adjustable wickerbill is going to get close to matching either the Gen IV ACR or the P1.

When the numbers come out and they are much, much less are you going to come back on here and admit you were wrong?

I have a Gen IV ACR and over 100 miles an hour you can actually feel the car begin to squat down under the force being applied to it by the park bench out back.

The aero on the ACR is still way beyond anything you can get on a street car, from the factory at < $1 Million.
 
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PeterMJ

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Give me the numbers. There is no chance it makes more downforce than the gen iv acr. You are smoking the good stuff. I will eat my hat if it makes more than 1200-1500 lbs at 150. The splitter extender on the acr isn't even street legal.

It took this:
You must be registered for see images attach

For mclaren to tie/beat (barely) the specs of the Gen IV ACR with splitter extender and adjustable autoclaved carbon fiber wing at the greatest attack angle.
No adjustable wickerbill is going to get close to matching either the Gen IV ACR or the P1.

When the numbers come out and they are much, much less are you going to come back on here and admit you were wrong?

I have a Gen IV ACR and over 100 miles an hour you can actually feel the car begin to squat down under the force being applied to it by the park bench out back.

The aero on the ACR is still way beyond anything you can get on a street car, from the factory at < $1 Million.
What numbers? LOL
The sky is falling because Juechter said so and these people are already ducking. For track duties, ACR is still tops. If you want some numbers, the only number that is available from GM is regarding new Camaro Z28, generating the highest downforce (without actual speed disclosed) among ANY GM VEHICLES EVER. The number is a whopping 200 pounds:D:D
 

elanderholm

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What numbers? LOLThe sky is falling because Juechter said so and these people are already ducking. For track duties, ACR is still tops. If you want some numbers, the only number that is available from GM is regarding new Camaro Z28, generating the highest downforce (without actual speed disclosed) among ANY GM VEHICLES EVER. The number is a whopping 200 pounds:D:D
That was my point. Seems ridiculous to say how the aero is more amazing then the outgoing acr with no numbers. Also the lack of a true adjustable wing makes the comment dubious. Won't be holding my breath. Car will be awesome, but nothing all that exciting in the aero department, IMO.
 

PeterMJ

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That was my point. Seems ridiculous to say how the aero is more amazing then the outgoing acr with no numbers. Also the lack of a true adjustable wing makes the comment dubious. Won't be holding my breath. Car will be awesome, but nothing all that exciting in the aero department, IMO.
New Z06 is not one car, it is SIX CARS, depending on the transmission and level of ground effects. This fact alone should give the public something to think about before declaring it AWESOME, LOL.


What you will see is a set of performance figures GM marketing will use that is based on all six versions, combined into one car, with not a single version capable of achieving even a fraction of these figures, this is how marketing works. General public and buyers tend to be very gullible, as demonstrated in this thread and prefer marketing claims instead of critical and analytical thinking. Sad but a very true reality.

If the Viper included active aero, it could have easily set a standard new Z06 could not follow because GM is very cheap and R&D for new Corvette is not really there but... I guess fancy interiors and paint jobs require no engineering and generate more profits or at least so Chrysler thought. And you do not really need to look at million dollar cars for active aero, not just Porsche Turbo that costs about the same what top trim level GTS costs but even lower variants certainly include active aero.
 

TrackAire

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Give me the numbers. There is no chance it makes more downforce than the gen iv acr. You are smoking the good stuff. I will eat my hat if it makes more than 1200-1500 lbs at 150. The splitter extender on the acr isn't even street legal.

It took this:
You must be registered for see images attach

For mclaren to tie/beat (barely) the specs of the Gen IV ACR with splitter extender and adjustable autoclaved carbon fiber wing at the greatest attack angle.
No adjustable wickerbill is going to get close to matching either the Gen IV ACR or the P1.

When the numbers come out and they are much, much less are you going to come back on here and admit you were wrong?

I have a Gen IV ACR and over 100 miles an hour you can actually feel the car begin to squat down under the force being applied to it by the park bench out back.

The aero on the ACR is still way beyond anything you can get on a street car, from the factory at < $1 Million.


Who the hell knows what the numbers are?....and really, down force numbers do not mean squat if the car is slower around a track. My point is this, aero is not just a giant wing that creates downforce (and a tremendous amount of drag). It has to work with the rest of the car. Next to a large rear wing, the windshield probably creates the second highest amount of "down force" on a car. A lot of the aero bits that are used on cars and race cars minimize lift. Spoilers, vents, belly pans, wheel well arches, active aero, etc all work to minimize lift at speed which puts more pressure on the tires. Adding additional down force with rear wings or giants front splitters can create even more down force (but usually at the expense of tremendous drag).

If the rear wing on the ACR (one of the most potent track cars period, regardless of cost) was the answer, then the Gen 5 TA would have not been able to beat it at Laguna Seca. When they put on R-compound type tires, it destroyed the ACR time. I do understand that these tests were done on different days with different drivers, but 3 seconds per lap is eternity. The Gen 5 TA set the fastest time with a minimal front splitter and very mild rear spoiler. Please don't confuse a down force "number" without taking into account lift, drag, etc. You can put wings and spoilers on a car that generate 1500 lbs of "down force" at 150 mph, but if there is 700 lbs of "lift", you're really not getting an additional 1500 lbs of down force on the tires. When lift, down force and drag are controlled, you have a winning combination.

The McLaren P1 pictured above does not hold the Laguna Seca record, the Gen 5 TA does. I have no doubts that the P1 will run a faster lap at the Ring than the 2010 Gen 4 ACR, but until they do it with a production car and post the time, it does not exist. And as you know, the P1 wing is very rarely at a severe angle of attack like the Gen 4 ACR static wing is. It moves around as necessary to "control" air flow so the system works with the other aero bits on the car. I must admit, it would be epic to have a car that has a wing that goes vertical under braking...that must be an awesome feeling.

I'm not a modern Vette lover, but looking at the aero parts and techniques they are using, it will be very potent. The Z-28 is a heavy pig, but it still beat the new AWD Porsche and Nissan GTR in a recent magazine track test...both of which I believe have more horsepower. I know the sticky Trofeo's helped the Z-28 run fast times, but with rear wheel drive, less horsepower and a manual shifter. So how bad is the bloodbath going to be when the Z06 gets put up against the Porsche and GTR? My point is GM is stepping up big time. Do I know what the down force numbers are or what the lap times will be? No, the car is not in production yet. But the C7 Z06 will be faster at both the 1/4 mile and on the road track than the 2013 ZR1.

My biggest disappointment in this whole deal is the lack of development on the Gen 5 in regards to more advanced aero, handling options, etc. I was really hoping for a 2015 Gen 5 ACR announcement but I don't think that is going to happen. I am now hoping that the C7 Z06 destroys the Gen 5 out on the road track. Last time the Gen 5 got its ass kicked against a ZR1 we were rewarded with the Gen 5 TA (which seems to be selling pretty good) and new Laguna Seca record. Assuming they keep building the Viper, you won't see squat from SRT until they get embarrassed again.

Cheers,
George
 

05Commemorative

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Just so that I make sure we are accurate, earlier in this thread you got folks riled with the following statement:

"I never expected to see any USA manufacturer put on something so extreme and functional on a mainstream car (this is even more radical than the Gen 4 ACR)."

And now you follow with "Who the hell knows what the numbers are." referring to the downforce/aero and then you continue go on as if not a huge admission of not having a clue of the effects, but still standing by your bold statement earlier?

If you just like to post to stir up things, ok, but atleast be consistent. you basically said one car (that has not been produced yet) is going to be great/etc, but then you admit you have no idea what its performance is. Did I miss the actual data driving the the opinions stated as facts?


Who the hell knows what the numbers are?....and really, down force numbers do not mean squat if the car is slower around a track. My point is this, aero is not just a giant wing that creates downforce (and a tremendous amount of drag). It has to work with the rest of the car. Next to a large rear wing, the windshield probably creates the second highest amount of "down force" on a car. A lot of the aero bits that are used on cars and race cars minimize lift. Spoilers, vents, belly pans, wheel well arches, active aero, etc all work to minimize lift at speed which puts more pressure on the tires. Adding additional down force with rear wings or giants front splitters can create even more down force (but usually at the expense of tremendous drag).

If the rear wing on the ACR (one of the most potent track cars period, regardless of cost) was the answer, then the Gen 5 TA would have not been able to beat it at Laguna Seca. When they put on R-compound type tires, it destroyed the ACR time. I do understand that these tests were done on different days with different drivers, but 3 seconds per lap is eternity. The Gen 5 TA set the fastest time with a minimal front splitter and very mild rear spoiler. Please don't confuse a down force "number" without taking into account lift, drag, etc. You can put wings and spoilers on a car that generate 1500 lbs of "down force" at 150 mph, but if there is 700 lbs of "lift", you're really not getting an additional 1500 lbs of down force on the tires. When lift, down force and drag are controlled, you have a winning combination.

The McLaren P1 pictured above does not hold the Laguna Seca record, the Gen 5 TA does. I have no doubts that the P1 will run a faster lap at the Ring than the 2010 Gen 4 ACR, but until they do it with a production car and post the time, it does not exist. And as you know, the P1 wing is very rarely at a severe angle of attack like the Gen 4 ACR static wing is. It moves around as necessary to "control" air flow so the system works with the other aero bits on the car. I must admit, it would be epic to have a car that has a wing that goes vertical under braking...that must be an awesome feeling.

I'm not a modern Vette lover, but looking at the aero parts and techniques they are using, it will be very potent. The Z-28 is a heavy pig, but it still beat the new AWD Porsche and Nissan GTR in a recent magazine track test...both of which I believe have more horsepower. I know the sticky Trofeo's helped the Z-28 run fast times, but with rear wheel drive, less horsepower and a manual shifter. So how bad is the bloodbath going to be when the Z06 gets put up against the Porsche and GTR? My point is GM is stepping up big time. Do I know what the down force numbers are or what the lap times will be? No, the car is not in production yet. But the C7 Z06 will be faster at both the 1/4 mile and on the road track than the 2013 ZR1.

My biggest disappointment in this whole deal is the lack of development on the Gen 5 in regards to more advanced aero, handling options, etc. I was really hoping for a 2015 Gen 5 ACR announcement but I don't think that is going to happen. I am now hoping that the C7 Z06 destroys the Gen 5 out on the road track. Last time the Gen 5 got its ass kicked against a ZR1 we were rewarded with the Gen 5 TA (which seems to be selling pretty good) and new Laguna Seca record. Assuming they keep building the Viper, you won't see squat from SRT until they get embarrassed again.

Cheers,
George
 

elanderholm

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The 2010 was only .3 seconds slower than the TA. Also pro driver vs dodge engineer.

You must be registered for see images


I'm sure he's a great driver but not the same like you pointed out. The TA put 3 secs between itself and the 2010 on slicks I believe.

If the rear wing on the ACR (one of the most potent track cars period, regardless of cost) was the answer, then the Gen 5 TA would have not been able to beat it at Laguna Seca

You can't say that. The gen v is a better platform. Better chassis. Better brakes. Better driver, maybe? Lots of variables. If/when the new acr comes out it will have a MONSTER wing. I hope it's the active kind.

The wing on the acr provides a net neg lift of 1000+ lbs. so does the p1. The standard gen iv had negative lift, not much but some. Better than many sports cars.

I understand the magic the p1's wing does which is why I also, have no doubt it will crush the TA or new zo6 on track. But you need to spend a million plus to get something like that. I saw one cruising around here in sf. The zo6 and viper are no p1. I'm hoping the new acr bridges the gap.
 
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TrackAire

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Just so that I make sure we are accurate, earlier in this thread you got folks riled with the following statement:

"I never expected to see any USA manufacturer put on something so extreme and functional on a mainstream car (this is even more radical than the Gen 4 ACR)."

And now you follow with "Who the hell knows what the numbers are." referring to the downforce/aero and then you continue go on as if not a huge admission of not having a clue of the effects, but still standing by your bold statement earlier?

If you just like to post to stir up things, ok, but atleast be consistent. you basically said one car (that has not been produced yet) is going to be great/etc, but then you admit you have no idea what its performance is. Did I miss the actual data driving the the opinions stated as facts?

My quote above is exactly correct when regarding the C7 Z06. The fender lips with tie ins to the front splitter, the vents on the rear fenders, the adjustable rear spoiler/wicker bill, etc....have you ever seen any other mainstream car made with this many obvious functional aero devices on a car? The Gen 4 ACR had a giant wing, yep I get it. My point is there is a lot of potential functionality on the new Z06. (when the 2013 Gen 5 came out, we got rear air scoops for the rear brake cooling ducts that weren't even connected....just flowing unwanted air to the underside of the car) Can I guarantee it will work on the Z06, how the hell do I know? But from my basic knowledge of aero and what works synergistically, I would say the aero will be a home run. Will the supercharged motor heat soak? Will the auto trans over heat? Will the direct injection and cylinder deactivation cause problems?.....probably. If you've read my posts about the GM product, I recommend nobody buy a first year GM product since they always seems to screw the pooch when it comes to glitches and problems on new products.

This discussion has nothing to do about stirring anything up, it is about discussions about car performance, what makes a car faster, better, etc. If Gen 5 owners or wanna be owners get butt hurt about a "potential" new threat, jesus, give me a break. We are talking about cars here, not the next cure for cancer using live babies as organ donors.

I thought this was a car forum discussing car performance and advancements. The new Z06 uses a lot of things I wish were on the Gen 5. Please, explain to me why a dry sump system, transmission cooler or rear end cooler would be an issue? The Gen 5 TA is probably the top of the food chain. Will it stay there?....nope. Advancements from not just GM but other makes will keep pushing the performance envelope forward. I get it, there are a lot of posers that drive their car and never will track it, push it or use it as it was designed. But for those of us that like to push forward with faster, safer and better looking vehicles please don't freak out if discussions point out that the competition may have something better going on. That is how our product gets better. (I would have bet money that the Gen 4 ACR would have been faster than any non extreme aero Gen 5....and I would have lost).

If new paint schemes and limited edition cars are where you and the rest of the Viper nation are headed....please let us know now so we don't have to waste time discussing car performance and advancements. Competition is good. Looking at what others are doing and discussing the advancements is good. Freaking out because somebody is discussing the competition....give me a break.

Like I said, the last time the Vette kicked our asses, SRT stepped up with the Gen 5 TA. I don't hear anybody complaining about that. The squeaky wheel gets the grease (or hopefully the new Trofeo's).

I stand by my comment that the C7 Z06 will be faster in every way than the 2013 ZR1. Unfortunately, that means it may also be faster than the Gen 5 TA......wouldn't you want to discuss this and ways SRT can counter that? I'm for keeping the Gen 5 king of the hill....and that will not be accomplished with new paint color options. Are we in agreement with this concept?

Cheers,
George
 

kdaviper

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IIRC the Gen IV ACR had a 7:1 DF:Drag ratio, which is better than many, many race cars. Also, the wing was there primarily to balance the enormous amount of DF created by the front splitter and canards.
What made the TA so remarkable around Laguna were its revised suspension geometry (more predictable/controllable), better turn-in from the addition of the X-brace, and maybe better brake pads compared to an ACR.
 

elanderholm

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IIRC the Gen IV ACR had a 7:1 DF:Drag ratio, which is better than many, many race cars. Also, the wing was there primarily to balance the enormous amount of DF created by the front splitter and canards.
What made the TA so remarkable around Laguna were its revised suspension geometry (more predictable/controllable), better turn-in from the addition of the X-brace, and maybe better brake pads compared to an ACR.

The splitter on the ACR is an amazing piece of kit. It goes so far back on the car...almost to the driver. The whole system works well together, but your point is correct, the Gen V is a better platform. I really hope we get an ACR like package for the Gen V soon...
 
OP
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WANTED

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OP: Judging from the all the replys to your thread, there is no other news! As your post infer's, where is the Viper?

finally a reply to my post. whats up with the big announcement about the viper from srt, did i miss something :dunno:
 

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