Anybody know this car?

[99 R/T 10]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1843091879

Very interesting, it looks like a 96 R/T all the way around untill you see the engine. It looks to me like a late 93(4 ribbed) engine. Cheap though,

Mike

 

[MadMaxx]

http://vca1.viperclub.org/cgi-bin/ubb-cgi/postdisplay.cgi?forum=Forum14&topic=012722

MM

 

[joe117]

From what I've seen in this thread and the other one, I'd say that there is a good chance that the car in the picture might not be the car they are selling. The close up of the radio shows, what looks to me like a non standard installation with the radio sticking out of the dash.
It's a good price if it would really sell for the money they are asking and if it was straight. Why the Virginia title except as some kind of way around the truth. If the car was a theft recovery, with lot's of money paid out, like he said. What was the payout for? If it wasn't wrecked what did it need? Did it burn?
It look's like a car for you Bonkers. You're looking for a low $$ car, right?

 

[MadMaxx]

You have 3 tomer

MM

 

[Tomer]

I thought so, but was not sure (car is at home today)...

It would be terribly interesting to get the real skinny on this car...

Tomer

 

[MadMaxx]

I bet there is red hiding under that white... someone used a wrecked 96 to clone a theft recovery (read: stripped out) 94 to this thing we see before us.

My guess.. theft recoveries usualy have many parts missing (especialy exotics)

MM

 

[Eddie N]

you guys are reading wayyy too much into this.. the car was a theft recovery.. the wheels were probably gone, definitely the 10k hood, and misc interior pieces..

insurance paid out a ton rather than total the car, they repainted it a different color, slapped on the white wheels, coverted to rear exhaust, and called it a day.. maybe the car was stolen and recovered around 96 and thats when this particular color combo was hot?

i would buy it (funds permitting) for about 37k because of its odd history..but being that its on ebay it will probably go for 44k+ which is way too much for that car..

- eddie -

 

[MadMaxx]

They also had to do the steering wheel, shifter, e-brake and all interior pannels (notice they aren't grey).

Also, the stripes look pretty good for a cheap aftermarket spray...

Also, wouldn't there be a problem converting to rear-exit exhaust? There are no provisions for the rear hangers, expecialy past the rear of the rockers!?

MM

 

[Eddie N]

ok..ok.. you win.. although the interior was propably stripped real good when the car was recovered..

how hard could a 94 to 96 conversion be? dodge did it, so why couldnt someone else?

i just cant see why somebody would lie about the car.. if they were going to lie, say its an ACTUAL 96..

if something is wrong here, my vote is that the car being sold is not the car pictured..

- eddie -

 

[Eddie N]

AHA!! doesnt the 180 mph speedo give away that the car is a 94? arent 96 and up speedos 200 mph? someone correct me if im wrong..

- eddie -

 

[Eddie N]

as already stated there is a kink in the rear bumper.. also the gap between the headlights and the hood looks awefully big..

- eddie -

 

[MadMaxx]

The 96 RT still had 180, while the GTS' got 200.

Something isn't right here....I just want to know what car is what... is it a 94 vin on rebuilt 96, or a re-working 94 body with 96 parts?

The frame is different on gen1 cars, I don't think there is any way for the pipes to go past the rear rockers... anyone?
The 96 RT uses the coupe's overall design, but with a trunk pan

MM

 

[Eddie N]

its gotta be a 94 with a 96 conversion..that would explain the 94 engine bay that was already commented on.. it was stolen as a 94, parts were cannabalized, the car was found stripped, and then rebuilt with the cosmetic parts of a 96.. im sure there are other ways to get the exhaust to the rear of the car besides the way dodge did it..

- eddie -

 

[Tomer]

Yah, the rear fascia does not line up well to the bottom of the driver's side 1/4 panel, as viewed from the rear...There is a styrofoam piece in the rear fascia, if it were installed, I don't think the fascia could sag like that...

Wilddude, what do you mean by 93/4 ribbed engine? My 96 has the same silver ribs on top of the intake manifold...Can't recall if mine has 3 or 4 ribs though...will have to check...

Also, the wheels in the fender wells don't look quite "right" in some of the pics...

I agree that the question is, why a 94 VIN on a 96 car?

Tomer

 

[Bonkers]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by joe117:
It look's like a car for you Bonkers. You're looking for a low $$ car, right?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I was considering it for about two seconds Joe then reasoning hit. (two days straight without sleep now.)

In my delirium I'll state a scenario that a friend of my used to do before he was sent up and see how it rings on the Club's minds...

Eddie (the seller) got his hands on a stolen (or otherwise illegit 96.) and thusly spent little/no money on the car. He then bought a really demolished 94 from an auction (or otherwise legitimately) and also for very, very cheap. Now he takes the legitimate VIN from the 94 (which he legally owns and which has no history other than the theft) and superglues it to the 96. Now you have a top notch, 100% good 96 RT with a good VIN. He makes whatever profit he can from the sale with almost nothing going in.

Theft 94 rt = $5000-12000
Auction currently = 28500.
If he did get it illegally then we're talking a good $16k profit which would be a really good reason to sell a 96 car with a 94 VIN.

I'll keep my eye out, if he sells a viper frame anytime in the near future I'll repost...

Of course I could be totally off base here to and I'd really like to think I am...

 

[MadMaxx]

How are you going to do your rebuild bonkers?
Find a frame and ground up or?? From what I priced out for the race/project car, ya better have the cash on hand

MM

 

[Bonkers]

Well worse case scenario I know where there is a 94rt for $17k. Considering prices that I've seen come through ebay and a few other sites I figure I can get this car road worthy (though not very pretty) for about $25K A good paint job and some go fast goodies I'd be skirting $30K.

I'm also looking at a vandalized 97 GTS (someone took a sledge to) for $25. Looks in a car aren't that important to me so I figure I can spend serious Viper time in a bondoed GTS (maybe spend a little extra for a trip down to Doug's place). A fast sh!tty viper is STILL better than none at all.

Right now though all the good/reliable cars are still solidly above $40k and the so-sos are above $30k. If I'm going to spend that much cash on something I'd rather have a car that I know where all the problems are. Also consider I have no intention of EVER selling the car I finally decide on its KBB worth would mean nothing to me.

If I could get this one for $25k I would at least go check it out, but then again so would everyone else...

 

[MadMaxx]

If I was going to do it (and I am) I would have a frame builder make a frame with the same dimentions as the viper, but of chromoly tube. steel floorpan, aluminum rear panels. Integrated roll cage. Autoform carbon hood,facia,rockers and carbon quarters (yes, he makes them.. just call and ask). Roof section from a wrecked coupe, doors as well. Rear glass would be lexan, would have stock front windsheild.

Sparco seats, dash from a 96 RT/10 (no airbags),GTS door panels, Autoform interior panels (cut already), removable trans tunel for quick clutch changes and such.

Engine bay would consist of aluminum wheel wells, fluidyne rad and removal suports. Autoform vented cowl. 600hp NA V10, Gen2 block and heads. All plumed and ready to rock.

Aerodynamics would come in the form of a GTS-R vented hood (no NACA duct, just vents), front spliter and rear wing.

There you have it... a race car with street-pounding roots.

Man.. that pro-street influence is very evident in my designs eh? hehe

MM

 

[joe117]

Max, how much bang for the buck would there be in having a frame built? I've no idea how much that would be. It just seems like if you want to build a race car to drive on the street you would want to gut, beef up and lighten while still keeping it finished nice inside and out. What would the custom frame buy you for a street car?
Bonkers, I've got a fairly low bucks 94. Come buy mine. I need a GTS.

 

[CAP]

Note from seller:

I AM GETTING LOTS OF E-MAIL REGARDING 1994-1996 BODY STYLE QUESTIONS. THIS CAR WAS BUILT WITH ALL 1996 BODY. NO PAINT WORK AT ALL. AND YES THE CAR IN THE PICTURES IS THE REAL CAR I HAVE FOR SALE. ALSO I AM NOT DISCLOSING MY RESERVE. HAPPY BIDDING

 

[MadMaxx]

Because the going rate for viper frames is 8K, as where any good race chasis builder can do the same thing, lighter and stronger for ~4K complete. As long as you provide the plans and the money, they'll do nearly anything

You can also get crazy with the type of suspensions if you have more room to work with. Also, with tube steel you can build the safty system into the frame much more easily than trying to do a cage as an after thought.

With the right body, the car would look dead stock on the outside.

MM

 

[Eddie N]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>ALSO I AM NOT DISCLOSING MY RESERVE. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

odd..i thought the auction had no reserve?

 

[MadMaxx]

And the plot thickens! duunh duuunh DAAAAAAH!!!!!

MM

 

[99 R/T 10]

I emailed him about that statement on the reserve, he said people were emailing him on what he would take to END the auction. Said it was a NO RESERVE auction. Hopes this clarifies things,

Mike

 

[Jerry Dobson]

Bonkers, where you being serious about moving VIN numbers??? Ha...that will get you ten years in the gray bar hotel.

VIN plates are not clued on. One more secret, they don't use round shanks on the pop rivots either.

When a car goes to the grave, the VIN goes with it.

The only option would be to take the good items and put them on the titled good VIN car. But most likely that will have a salvage title that you can NOT clear by retitleing.

 

[Bonkers]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jerry Dobson:
Bonkers, where you being serious about moving VIN numbers??? Ha...that will get you ten years in the gray bar hotel.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I've known people to risk 10-20 for less. This situation calls for a lot of questions to be answered.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>VIN plates are not clued on. One more secret, they don't use round shanks on the pop rivots either. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know that and I know that, but ask one of your wife's friends if they know the difference. And who needs to pop rivet anymore? - if you had two identical cars you could just switch out the dash boards entirely. With a clean title w/ no history how many of those highly paid DMV technicans would look any farther than the glass?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>When a car goes to the grave, the VIN goes with it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Salvage vipers never die. They keep coming back to haunt the unsuspecting every day. The VIN is only truly destroyed when the car is crushed by a creditable demolisher, but I've never heard of a viper being crushed yet. In fact I'm currently keeping track of almost thirty wrecked Vipers with clean titles right now and I've only been looking for six months.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The only option would be to take the good items and put them on the titled good VIN car. But most likely that will have a salvage title that you can NOT clear by retitleing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually title washing is surprisingly common with these types of cars, but that's not what we're talking about in this case. This case is unusual because we know that the car is a recovered theft. We know that to replace the whole body and exhaust and engine would be much, much more than the $35k he could hope to get for the car. As a businessman/rebuilder would you spend $50-60-70k on a car that if your lucky you MIGHT get $40k on?

If he had a bad title 96 White RT/10 and a clean titled (but stripped) 94 Red RT/10 how much effort would really be involved in switching the dashboards? How much effort is a $15k+ profit worth? He could literally destroy the 94 Red RT and sell the 96 and no one would know for many, many years.

If anyone is looking at this car ask for Engine an Chassis numbers and compare them with dodge. I have a feeling the body, frame, and engine do not match with the 94 VIN.

Just my .02

 

[Bonkers]

I'm not trying to rehash an old topic, but I thought everyone would be interested in an update. After this auction ended I contacted the new owner about our concerns and what she thought about it.

Now before you read this I am not posting it to in anyway insult or mock the lady involved. This is just a portion of the letter and by all account she seemed very nice. Instead I just thought some of you might like to know the mindset of people buying off of Ebay these days.

This was her email back to me:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Email from Ebay Buyer
Hi Bj,
Thankyou for your interest in my beautiful, really fast, new Viper!! Know that I did all the research before I paid CASH!! for this beauty. I am very happy with the car and it's overall appearance. It is an awesome car and one of my favorites in my collection. You are a sweetheart to be so concerned about this transaction. Or maybe heartbroken that you let it slip away. Life is short, buy what you want, and have fun!!

Thanks again. I will let you know if I have any problems.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I for one truly hope there are no legal hang ups with this car. I'd hate to think that someone, an obvious car lover, would put themselves in a position to be screwed over on so many levels.

In the end I really hope this car provides the enjoyment its supposed to. Maybe someday down the line we'll find out the truth about this car and put all doubts to rest.