Are Vipers too radical for most people??

[Russ Oasis]

I've said this before, but I think that it deserves repeating on this string. The bulk of the complaints from the Viper faithful about the SRT have to do with the "mainstreaming" of its looks. The RT-10 and GTS are both so very radical. It's what initially attracted us to the cars. The SRT-10, while handsome, is not as radical and therefore disappoints those who originally bought a Viper because of it's radical looks. The Comp Coupe, on the other hand, brings the radical look back into focus. Just my .02.

 

[Viperfreak2]

I think if Viper owners voiced our opinions in a poll you would find that, yes we all want a coupe as another body style option, some of us like stripes, and no one would deny that more colors would be nice. All of this would do nothing to the performance / refinement of the car itself.
42V electrical system. Interesting. Toyota, Honda, BMW, Mercedes etc. are all working on this, but the change over is more than a few years away. I don't agree that a much more efficient electrical system is going to eliminate the GGT! The 42V system will come to all cars in time, including the Viper but since Conner Ave isn't exactly area 51, don't hold your breath. I don't have a pre-occupation with HUDs, I just listed a lot of Vette features that don't help the car go faster or handle better. Race cars don't have speedometers. I see a huge difference between 'real' race cars and Formula 1. When they started adding all the electronic crap, it started to take away from driver control. To the point where a computer launches the car. (driver skill no longer needed for that) Skid and stability controls are a nice safety feature on street cars, but I think are too much on a track. Nascar doesn't have it. If they win a race, it was the pure skill of the human, not the machine. That's exactly my whole point in this debate. There are cars for comfort (745Li) and some for efficiency (Prius) , and some for space (Excursion) and others with mind numbing electronic brains (745Li)! I want the minimum in my sports car. Nothing extra that adds weight. Look at the AMG SL55. It weighs over 4000 lbs! It is almost as fast as a Viper, makes the same horsepower and torque and is VERY refined and comfortable (and expensive). They took a good basic design and added and added and added. It pampers and coddles and does everthing but say "good morning captain" when you get in. Nice for it's purpose, made by the same company as the Viper, but low on the adrenaline rush scale.

Hydroformed frame rails? Do you think the SRT structure is weak? OK, if it made the car lighter, fine. Speaking from experience, this thing is tight! I can hit the big potholes and there's no evidence of cowl shake. With a suspension this tight, it's incredible and far superior to my previous RT-10. I drove my brother-in-laws 2002 Vette (hatch) with the targa roof off and noticed a slight quiver in the windshield. The hydroformed Vette convertible weighs within 100lbs of the snake. (3349 vs. 3250 if not the exact figures forgive me) Only the Z06 has been given the 'stripper' config. I hope an SRT coupe weighs a good deal less than the convertible.
I gotta go re-read the refinements you listed, back in a sec.

 

[Viperfreak2]

Carbon-ceramic brakes and active camber. Those would surely push the Vipers performance. Unfortunately, these would make the car also less of a Viper. DC could build these features, but the development costs and the price of the equipment itself would push the MSRP up. How far up? Who knows. The Enzo and Carrera GT have the fancy brakes. Do they stop substantially better that the SRT-10? Not in any test I've read. These are not real production cars anyway. They cost upward of $400K. At that price it would not be a Viper. The Viper would way out-perform them, but only the P-diddys, M Jordans, and D Trumps of the world could afford them. The Viper hangs with cars costing MUCH more at a mid-level price. Same arguement can be said about the Mustang Cobra vs. the Vette, or the Vette vs. the SRT. Bwright You've mentioned some interesting future technologies, they just don't fit into the Viper mission statement. In my opinion, let the Vette handle the technology side of the American sports car market, let the Viper always be the back to basics 'drivers' choice. Oh yeah, I forgot the Ford GT. That'll make two choices!

 

[fluffy]

Well there are two ways, really, to get a car around a track faster: 1. Improve the car, 2. Improve the driver. In the first category we have better brakes, more horsepower, lighter weight, etc. In the second... ABS, tight grippy seats, synchronized helical-cut gearboxes, stability control, HUD, etc.

Perhaps synchronized gearboxes reduce the need for driver skill. Perhaps ABS does as well. And I am glad that the Viper doesn't have a bench seat to give drivers practice at bracing themselves in a high-g turn (those damn seats... no need for a driver's skill anymore). None of these things are needed to make the Viper a serious race car, but I wouldn't buy a Viper without them. They don't give the car more horsepower, but they do help get it around the track quicker.

For those who like the unrefined nature of the Viper first and foremost (and not just the image that a known unrefined car brings), have you replaced your gearbox with a straight-cut, non-synchronized unit? Why not? Have you torn out your interior for the weight savings and put in a carbon fiber bench to sit on? Why not? If you have ABS, has it been removed? Is the A/C gone?

That said, I think the Viper SRT is perfectly balanced between making the car great, and the driver great. I would welcome electronic stability and traction control (but not a HUD), if it were balanced by an additional 150 or so horsepower.

 

[GR8_ASP]

"And I am glad that the Viper doesn't have a bench seat to give drivers practice at bracing themselves in a high-g turn (those damn seats... no need for a driver's skill anymore)."

Bench seats .. what a thought. Then I would have a place to attach the baby seat. Hmmm

Okay got to go. The local junk yard ought to have something that will fit

 

[OutThere]

I for one welcome the additional refinements and the continued attention to its leading performance. Dodge is bringing the line forward and, cup holder or not, that's a GREAT thing for everything Viper.

My 95, with it's lack of airbags, ABS, windows, uncontrollably wild power, loud, mean, intimidating, crowd gathering presence ... is a throw back. GOD it's a GREAT CAR!!! They'll never be another Gen1 Viper, never. And I for one am glad that Dodge decided to evolve the line, rather then produce the same car year after year without changing anything but the performance characteristics. GTS same thing. They'll never be anything like the Viper GTS and I don't want to see one. When the SRT Coupe comes out, it'll be a new car that not only brings the car forward performance wise but it'll be refined the way a $80,000 should be in 2004... 2005... 2006. Build it!!

Perhaps in a few years we will have a:

Today's SRT - Most refined of the line but still a 500HP+ monster!

Tomorrow's GTS - Similar in refinement to the SRT but in striking GTS Coupe form.

A third variant - Something old-school Viper. A completely raw Coupe. Optional SC from the factory @ 650HP; minus the refinements, AC, power nothing, no audio, etc...

This would be a world-beating line up. Unfortunately, our German "friends" need to see it the same way and they probably want to see the cars being produced in the Fatherland beating the world.

 

[Viperfreak2]

A third variant - Something old-school Viper. A completely raw Coupe. Optional SC from the factory @ 650HP; minus the refinements, AC, power nothing, no audio, etc...

Couldn't have said it better myself. Since I work for the Bavarians, I know they like both the 'stripper' concept and the full-load-o-luxury concept. By the way, the word concept in Deutsch means "set in stone". In English it means an idea worth developing. VERY different. An M3 CSL is a street drivable race car. Too bad we can't get them in the US. I hope PVO will be given the opportunity to develope a SSRT-10 (Stripped SRT) then maybe then can make a soft version for all the posers.