Boxer12
Enthusiast
It's a good read and very positive in ways that count, but curious in others (no mention of styling redo): http://m.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven/1211_2013_srt_viper_gts/
Automobile Magazine review
- Thread starter Boxer12
- Start date
v10enomous
Enthusiast
Really painful read IMO. It was as if Obama was asked to write an article on the merits of Capitalism and admit that it's a good thing 
This guy is a hater for sure... I cut and pasted it for you... The link didn't work.
November 21, 2012 / By Eric Tingwall
Herb Helbig, the engineer who made the first three generations of Viper the most ruthless, intimidating car on the road, was a deviant. He was so hell bent on creating a hairy-chested sports car -- one that scared women and children -- that he considered building the Viper without doors. That the 1992 Viper and subsequent iterations came with two conventional doors bolted to the body didn't dilute Helbig’s twisted philosophy when it came to dynamics, though. His Vipers were evil.
One assumes that the institutional testosterone level within Chrysler was halved the day Helbig retired in 2008. While the people running Chrysler's newly formed SRT performance brand have high-test pumping through their veins, their idea of a sports car runs closer to the industry norm. Ralph Gilles, plucked from design to run SRT largely due to his passion for cars, fast cars, and race cars, is a dyed-in the-wool car guy. But when the boss talks about the 2013 SRT Viper, it’s clear that Gilles' Viper isn't Helbig's Viper. “I wanted it to be like a 640-hp Miata,” Gilles says. And while it’s nowhere near as forgiving, benign, or slow as the 167-hp, pocket-sized Japanese roadster, Gilles got his wish; he recounts hugging members of the development team after driving the car for the first time. The Viper isn’t what it once was.
Familiar V-10, new feel
At first glance, the 2013 Viper is everything it’s always been: menacing proportions, American attitude, and a fierce V-10. Both power and torque from the 8.4-liter V-10 are up by 40 counts, to 640 hp and 600 lb-ft, but fuel economy ratings won’t move much beyond the last car’s 13/22 mpg. SRT is well aware that the 2000 or so Vipers that will be sold every year have little impact in both the bureaucratic world of Corporate Average Fuel Economy and the real world where these cars are driven only occasionally. As Gilles frames the Viper’s environmental footprint, “It’s like a fly running into a horse’s ass.”
The Viper’s actual footprint looks like two fourteen-inch wide, 200-foot-long black streaks of rubber. The V-10 engine has always been a thundering powerhouse, but it now packs the explosive immediacy that a proper ten-cylinder engine deserves. A 27-pound aluminum flywheel means the engine spins up faster and reacts to throttle changes quicker. The long, lazy gearing that allowed you to grunt through city streets in fourth and fifth gears is gone. Revised ratios and a numerically lower final drive ratio require that you become intimately familiar with the short-throw shifter. With every gear change, the stiff, binary shift action evokes the brutish, raw Viper character that has set the Viper apart from every other sports car.
We’d happily welcome some more polish in the engine note, though. The Viper is still a loud car, especially in the cabin, where the 8.4-liter V-10 has the not particularly proud distinction of sounding like a commercial construction site even as you plod along in traffic. Dominated by valve clatter, belt shuffle, and an unflattering intake chuff, and set to the volume of a Caterpillar earth mover, the audio is subjectively underwhelming and objectively overwhelming. The soundtrack from pit lane is far more visceral, with a deep exhaust bellow under full throttle.
Charming the snake
The Viper’s greatest transformation comes in its handling. The chassis has been stiffened by fifty percent thanks largely to the massive X-brace under the hood, and while the steering ratio is unchanged, the hydraulic assistance has been reworked to speed up the response. In a nod to increasingly sophisticated competitors, the up-level GTS model includes two-mode Bilstein dampers, but engineers are quick to point out that the stiffer of the two settings is called Track, not Sport. So rather than a forgiving touring mode and a firm sport mode, you have a choice between pound-the-road stiff and hammer-the-track rigid.
Most significantly, the suspension geometry has been revised so that the rear end induces more understeer as the suspension compresses. That’s not to say that you can’t unstick the rear tires, but rather that the front and rear ends now dance in harmony. The result is improved stability and predictability giving the Viper an engaging, even approachable, handling behavior that makes it fun to drive even below the limits. These are the qualities that had Gilles benchmarking a Miata and hugging his engineers, and they elevate the Viper from a visceral novelty to a true sports car. “This will be one of the last pure driver’s cars,” Gilles says.
Helbig used to contend that a judicious right foot was all the traction control anyone needed. Today’s Viper packs traction and stability control as standard equipment and you get the sense that it’s not just there because the government requires it, but also because buyers demanded it. The GTS model includes Sport and Track settings between full on and full off, yet we can’t tell you anything about either of those modes. In ten laps on Sonoma Raceway, we never once saw reason to move beyond the default, full-on position. It’s only interruption came in the hairpin at 11A when we asked for full power too early and even then the system gently cut power rather than scrubbing speed.
Engineers also took advantage of the new electronic throttle and traction control to add launch control. Literally at the driver’s fingertips, the foolproof system is as easy as tapping a button on the steering wheel, selecting first, planting your right foot, and lifting your left foot. From a little less than 6000 rpm, the Viper uncoils in a faint whiff of wheel spin and tire smoke on its way to a 0-60-mph time in the low three second range. The new system is pretty much foolproof and should yield significantly faster quarter-mile times for the average driver.
It now has a real interior!
Driving an older model Viper wasn’t just difficult, it was often an uncomfortable experience. Because that V-10 engine was going to cook you like a Thanksgiving dinner in a tube-frame oven, air-conditioning be damned. The notion of cruise control was inconceivable, cupholders were sacrilegious, and you got the impression that the engineers would have been content with an interior made of popsicle sticks if rock-hard plastic hadn't been cheaper. The Viper made a PT Cruiser look luxurious.
The 2013 Viper interior makes a Corvette look like a rental car, reveals a Porsche to be an ergonomic nightmare, and shows up a Lamborghini as a gimmicky caricature. The cabin is defined by high-end materials, intuitive controls, and tasteful trappings. The 8.4-inch Uconnect touchscreen that’s steadily spreading through Chrysler Group products is standard and is augmented by a thoughtful collection of knobs and buttons. Divine thrones (by Sabelt) can optionally be clothed in rich leather and the thinner seats now slide rearward by an additional 40 millimeters and lower 20 millimeters closer to the floor. Despite that, tall drivers will yearn for even more vertical seat travel as they observe the world through the top three inches of the windshield.
A few other unpolished Viper-isms remain, as well. Navigation is optional and heated seats aren’t available. The power-seat controls of the GTS model are barely accessible between the seat and the body, and your knuckles will scrape across the sharp sill trim when you do get to them. The exterior also reveals a few panel gaps that could swallow a finger whole, a somewhat charming reminder that this supercar isn’t just engineered by a Detroit automaker, it’s also made in Detroit.
It isn’t what it was
Those gripes are trivial in the bigger picture. The Viper has been remade into a world-class sports car, one that wouldn’t be out of place sharing a garage with a Ferrari, a Lamborghini, or a Porsche. The old Viper was an anachronism that embodied fifty-year-old hot-rodding philosophies with technology that was ten years behind the curve. Today’s Viper is well rounded, giving off a sense of finesse and nuance while retaining a 640-hp air of insanity. Raw is now pure, brutal is now aggressive, but fast as hell is still fast as hell. The Viper isn’t what it once was. It’s better.
2013 SRT Viper
On sale: Early 2013
Price: $99,390/$122,390 (SRT/GTS)
Engine: 8.4L V-10, 640 hp, 600 lb-ft
Transmission: 6-speed manual
Drive: Rear-wheel
Fuel Mileage: 13/22 mpg (est.)
Read more: http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven/1211_2013_srt_viper_gts/#ixzz2CuRuWNG3
This guy is a hater for sure... I cut and pasted it for you... The link didn't work.November 21, 2012 / By Eric Tingwall
Herb Helbig, the engineer who made the first three generations of Viper the most ruthless, intimidating car on the road, was a deviant. He was so hell bent on creating a hairy-chested sports car -- one that scared women and children -- that he considered building the Viper without doors. That the 1992 Viper and subsequent iterations came with two conventional doors bolted to the body didn't dilute Helbig’s twisted philosophy when it came to dynamics, though. His Vipers were evil.
One assumes that the institutional testosterone level within Chrysler was halved the day Helbig retired in 2008. While the people running Chrysler's newly formed SRT performance brand have high-test pumping through their veins, their idea of a sports car runs closer to the industry norm. Ralph Gilles, plucked from design to run SRT largely due to his passion for cars, fast cars, and race cars, is a dyed-in the-wool car guy. But when the boss talks about the 2013 SRT Viper, it’s clear that Gilles' Viper isn't Helbig's Viper. “I wanted it to be like a 640-hp Miata,” Gilles says. And while it’s nowhere near as forgiving, benign, or slow as the 167-hp, pocket-sized Japanese roadster, Gilles got his wish; he recounts hugging members of the development team after driving the car for the first time. The Viper isn’t what it once was.
Familiar V-10, new feel
At first glance, the 2013 Viper is everything it’s always been: menacing proportions, American attitude, and a fierce V-10. Both power and torque from the 8.4-liter V-10 are up by 40 counts, to 640 hp and 600 lb-ft, but fuel economy ratings won’t move much beyond the last car’s 13/22 mpg. SRT is well aware that the 2000 or so Vipers that will be sold every year have little impact in both the bureaucratic world of Corporate Average Fuel Economy and the real world where these cars are driven only occasionally. As Gilles frames the Viper’s environmental footprint, “It’s like a fly running into a horse’s ass.”
The Viper’s actual footprint looks like two fourteen-inch wide, 200-foot-long black streaks of rubber. The V-10 engine has always been a thundering powerhouse, but it now packs the explosive immediacy that a proper ten-cylinder engine deserves. A 27-pound aluminum flywheel means the engine spins up faster and reacts to throttle changes quicker. The long, lazy gearing that allowed you to grunt through city streets in fourth and fifth gears is gone. Revised ratios and a numerically lower final drive ratio require that you become intimately familiar with the short-throw shifter. With every gear change, the stiff, binary shift action evokes the brutish, raw Viper character that has set the Viper apart from every other sports car.
We’d happily welcome some more polish in the engine note, though. The Viper is still a loud car, especially in the cabin, where the 8.4-liter V-10 has the not particularly proud distinction of sounding like a commercial construction site even as you plod along in traffic. Dominated by valve clatter, belt shuffle, and an unflattering intake chuff, and set to the volume of a Caterpillar earth mover, the audio is subjectively underwhelming and objectively overwhelming. The soundtrack from pit lane is far more visceral, with a deep exhaust bellow under full throttle.
Charming the snake
The Viper’s greatest transformation comes in its handling. The chassis has been stiffened by fifty percent thanks largely to the massive X-brace under the hood, and while the steering ratio is unchanged, the hydraulic assistance has been reworked to speed up the response. In a nod to increasingly sophisticated competitors, the up-level GTS model includes two-mode Bilstein dampers, but engineers are quick to point out that the stiffer of the two settings is called Track, not Sport. So rather than a forgiving touring mode and a firm sport mode, you have a choice between pound-the-road stiff and hammer-the-track rigid.
Most significantly, the suspension geometry has been revised so that the rear end induces more understeer as the suspension compresses. That’s not to say that you can’t unstick the rear tires, but rather that the front and rear ends now dance in harmony. The result is improved stability and predictability giving the Viper an engaging, even approachable, handling behavior that makes it fun to drive even below the limits. These are the qualities that had Gilles benchmarking a Miata and hugging his engineers, and they elevate the Viper from a visceral novelty to a true sports car. “This will be one of the last pure driver’s cars,” Gilles says.
Helbig used to contend that a judicious right foot was all the traction control anyone needed. Today’s Viper packs traction and stability control as standard equipment and you get the sense that it’s not just there because the government requires it, but also because buyers demanded it. The GTS model includes Sport and Track settings between full on and full off, yet we can’t tell you anything about either of those modes. In ten laps on Sonoma Raceway, we never once saw reason to move beyond the default, full-on position. It’s only interruption came in the hairpin at 11A when we asked for full power too early and even then the system gently cut power rather than scrubbing speed.
Engineers also took advantage of the new electronic throttle and traction control to add launch control. Literally at the driver’s fingertips, the foolproof system is as easy as tapping a button on the steering wheel, selecting first, planting your right foot, and lifting your left foot. From a little less than 6000 rpm, the Viper uncoils in a faint whiff of wheel spin and tire smoke on its way to a 0-60-mph time in the low three second range. The new system is pretty much foolproof and should yield significantly faster quarter-mile times for the average driver.
It now has a real interior!
Driving an older model Viper wasn’t just difficult, it was often an uncomfortable experience. Because that V-10 engine was going to cook you like a Thanksgiving dinner in a tube-frame oven, air-conditioning be damned. The notion of cruise control was inconceivable, cupholders were sacrilegious, and you got the impression that the engineers would have been content with an interior made of popsicle sticks if rock-hard plastic hadn't been cheaper. The Viper made a PT Cruiser look luxurious.
The 2013 Viper interior makes a Corvette look like a rental car, reveals a Porsche to be an ergonomic nightmare, and shows up a Lamborghini as a gimmicky caricature. The cabin is defined by high-end materials, intuitive controls, and tasteful trappings. The 8.4-inch Uconnect touchscreen that’s steadily spreading through Chrysler Group products is standard and is augmented by a thoughtful collection of knobs and buttons. Divine thrones (by Sabelt) can optionally be clothed in rich leather and the thinner seats now slide rearward by an additional 40 millimeters and lower 20 millimeters closer to the floor. Despite that, tall drivers will yearn for even more vertical seat travel as they observe the world through the top three inches of the windshield.
A few other unpolished Viper-isms remain, as well. Navigation is optional and heated seats aren’t available. The power-seat controls of the GTS model are barely accessible between the seat and the body, and your knuckles will scrape across the sharp sill trim when you do get to them. The exterior also reveals a few panel gaps that could swallow a finger whole, a somewhat charming reminder that this supercar isn’t just engineered by a Detroit automaker, it’s also made in Detroit.
It isn’t what it was
Those gripes are trivial in the bigger picture. The Viper has been remade into a world-class sports car, one that wouldn’t be out of place sharing a garage with a Ferrari, a Lamborghini, or a Porsche. The old Viper was an anachronism that embodied fifty-year-old hot-rodding philosophies with technology that was ten years behind the curve. Today’s Viper is well rounded, giving off a sense of finesse and nuance while retaining a 640-hp air of insanity. Raw is now pure, brutal is now aggressive, but fast as hell is still fast as hell. The Viper isn’t what it once was. It’s better.
2013 SRT Viper
On sale: Early 2013
Price: $99,390/$122,390 (SRT/GTS)
Engine: 8.4L V-10, 640 hp, 600 lb-ft
Transmission: 6-speed manual
Drive: Rear-wheel
Fuel Mileage: 13/22 mpg (est.)
Read more: http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven/1211_2013_srt_viper_gts/#ixzz2CuRuWNG3
swexlin
Viper Owner
Still, he didn't really like it. That's my take-away.
Solid Red 98
Enthusiast
- Joined
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Part of what makes the previous generation of Vipers so much fun is the fact that driving them is like playing with fire--they can easily burn you, and quite possibly kill you if you are an idiot and don't respect them. At the same time, so can acetylene welding. Put that same torch in the hands of a skilled craftsman, and metal flows like magic. Piloting a driver's car means that mastery takes intimacy, finesse, skill and good judgement in order to effectively interact with it. Granted that level of intensity can be "inaccessible" and often fatiguing, I have my other vehicles for a comfy autopilot experience. I get in the Viper when I am in the mood to go rattlesnake hunting. The new car still has that inside, but you have to flip some switches to unleash it. Finally, when other car guys see you throw a Viper around, it flies in the face of what they have read and heard--that the car is an evil beast. If you can tame it you must be also a beast. An they would be right.....lol The reality is, the car has a learning curve like anything else worth while....Long live the Viper in all its iterations. Happy Thanksgiving to all us Beasts!
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chorps
Enthusiast
Why does anyone need heated seats with the amount of heat the engine puts out?
May as well complain that there are no roof racks either.
ViperSmith
Enthusiast
I did love the air conditioned seats in my Lexus though...
But, silly thing to complain about IMO.
Nice creature comfort? Sure. But not necessary, especially when every oz counts in the car.
Boxer12
Enthusiast
The more i read about the Gev V and hear Ralph and others talk about it, the more I realize the 'Cobra-style' Vipers are a thing of the past...the Gen IV ACR was the pinnacle of an era. The new car is in the Super-GT (i just made that up) category and reviews evidence this shift in philosophy and now its being compared to a 911 which is what SRT wants right?
v10enomous
Enthusiast
ViperSmith
Enthusiast
I do wonder if SRT will go the way of Porsche and offer the ACR as a more stripped down interior (and of course, charge you a premium for it!) as Porsche does for the higher end performance models.
Personally, I look forward to the upgraded interior. But, that is just my own personal preference - I plan to DD my 2013 and I do prefer a nicer interior. But to each their own.
Boxer12
Enthusiast
The focus on the new car is not so much cosmetic as driving comfort, and curiously the TC and SC are pretty much nonissues, the real surprise is the handling 'improvements' from rigidity and changes (tweeks) on the four corners. I do see similarities in Porsche marketing plan with SRT. Rolling out cars in phases, track version every few years, etc
It isn’t what it was
Those gripes are trivial in the bigger picture. The Viper has been remade into a world-class sports car, one that wouldn’t be out of place sharing a garage with a Ferrari, a Lamborghini, or a Porsche. The old Viper was an anachronism that embodied fifty-year-old hot-rodding philosophies with technology that was ten years behind the curve. Today’s Viper is well rounded, giving off a sense of finesse and nuance while retaining a 640-hp air of insanity. Raw is now pure, brutal is now aggressive, but fast as hell is still fast as hell. The Viper isn’t what it once was. It’s better.
Nice ending to the article.
Those gripes are trivial in the bigger picture. The Viper has been remade into a world-class sports car, one that wouldn’t be out of place sharing a garage with a Ferrari, a Lamborghini, or a Porsche. The old Viper was an anachronism that embodied fifty-year-old hot-rodding philosophies with technology that was ten years behind the curve. Today’s Viper is well rounded, giving off a sense of finesse and nuance while retaining a 640-hp air of insanity. Raw is now pure, brutal is now aggressive, but fast as hell is still fast as hell. The Viper isn’t what it once was. It’s better.
Nice ending to the article.
Boxer12
Enthusiast
they are thinking this is a 12 month a year driver, and if you live in Detroit or NY you want those
v10enomous
Enthusiast
I don't see the Gen V being a good north east winter car any way you slice it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTbLv3t7NqA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTbLv3t7NqA
ViperSmith
Enthusiast
^^^ slamming the gas should get you sideways. handled fine before he buried the pedal
Boxer12
Enthusiast
Prob just needs different shoes!
It's a Viper, so soon to ask for this never-thought-of-before thingsthey are thinking this is a 12 month a year driver, and if you live in Detroit or NY you want those
He clearly did it on purpose. As you could with any car with power if you hit the go pedal like that when it is wet. Note that later the camera man says: "Can you do it one more time? That was perfect!" Since he was able to replicate the same thing each time, I would say the car is very controllable.
Well said! You write well.
I bought the 2010 because I didn't want all the creature comforts that were in my Z06. I bought it precisely because the interior was crap; the guages were real and well placed as in a race car. I bought it because it is raw and raucous and dangerous. I bought it precisely because it matches my personality.
My Gen GTS Blue/Silver Stripes IV Coupe has Black and Grey Interior and I put the faux carbon fiber dash kit in and it looks great. I also added the shorter shifter so it does not look like a baseball bat. A 700hp engine and a meaner exterior would have been welcome changes; a lexus interior is fine, but not the most important thing.
Oh, and my Gen IV has better steering adn handling than my Z06.
Oh, and my Gen IV has better steering adn handling than my Z06.
