Battery dies on Gen 4, recommendations?

[ViperGeorge]

Funny you say all this as I was planning to get the car inspected right after getting the battery replaced. I've never heard about this quirky issue before, and from what you are saying it is a pretty big deal to the car to disconnect and reconnect the battery, or replace it entirely. Will I have a problem passing inspection if this is the case? And what was that thing you said about "retraining the windows"???

The Viper uses what is called "smart glass". The windows retract slightly when the door is opened. This allows the glass to clear the weatherstrip. Reverse happens when you close door. Window snugs up against the weatherstrip. Training the glass is generally required after a loss of power so that the glass stops at the correct place. Sit in the car, raise and lower both windows 3 times holding the switch in position for 3 seconds after window is fully open or closed.

If you disconnect the battery or if there is a substantially drained battery the computer resets. The IM monitors are emission related tests that the computer performs during the drive cycle. They test the cats, evaporative emissions, and some other stuff. Some states will plug their computer into your OBD II port to check if the emission systems are working properly. Generally you will pass inspection if there is no Check Engine Light (also called a Malfunction Indicator Light) and all of the IM monitors are set to "complete" status. If they are set as "incomplete" you might not pass. Some states will allow you to have one monitor as incomplete, some don't. The problem with the IM monitors is that the car's computer only runs some tests under certain conditions (start up when cold then driven so that coolant temp reaches at least 140, etc.) and some tests have to pass multiple times before the test is considered complete. The Evaporative test takes the longest to complete for some reason. It only will run when the fuel tank is between 15 and 85% full and with the (I think) the A/C operating.

Bottom line, get a code reader from an auto store or Sears and read the OBD II system. The reader will tell you if all the IM monitors are complete and whether any fault codes are set. If the monitors are incomplete or there is a fault code don't bother with inspection until they are set. If they are good get the car inspected before replacing battery.

 

[Steve M]

You will also get a check engine light when you replace the battery, so don't be alarmed if you see it...it is some sort of countdown timer (I think) that will clear itself after a couple of ignition cycles.

 

[01sapphirebob]

You have a battery saver mode on your Gen IV...directions are in the owner's manual.

On our Gen III and IV Vipers, I changed the batteries to Sears Die-Hard PLATINUM (NOT Gold which is a lesser model) ...and on the Gen IV's, I made the change within the first year.

What fitment/model number did you get? I'm gonna need to replace the battery in my GEN IV come spring and according to the sears website they don't make a platinum battery for the GEN IV Viper.

 

[swexlin]

Thanks everyone, this is extremely helpful! I'll jump start the car this weekend and will bring it to get the battery replaced on that trip with a Sears Die-Hard Platinum battery. Now that leaves me with one final question..... Do you trust the guys at Sears to drive your car into their garage bay and do this relatively simple battery swap?

Yes, they did mine. I DROVE the car into the bay, and stood and watched as he did it.

 

[Steve M]

What fitment/model number did you get? I'm gonna need to replace the battery in my GEN IV come spring and according to the sears website they don't make a platinum battery for the GEN IV Viper.

Unless I'm not remembering correctly what I put in mine, it was a 34/78. I didn't have to modify anything to make it fit.

 

[swexlin]

Use the sleep mode every time you garage your car. I do. As I said, I also try to at least get the car out and take it on a 10 mile drive at least every 2-3 weeks. I know in winter this is hard, but you gotta pick a day that the roads are clear and dry, and just BE CAREFUL on cold tires.

On a side note, when I replaced my battery, I didn't have a CEL, nor did I have to re-teach the windows.

 

[Steve M]

On a side note, when I replaced my battery, I didn't have a CEL, nor did I have to re-teach the windows.

It's probably a function of how long you have the battery disconnected...I was in there running a new power wire to an aftermarket amplifier, so mine was out for quite a while. The windows still seemed to work okay (although I did do the relearn procedure), but it did trip the CEL.

 

[Steve-Indy]

01sapphirebob, I have a group 34 Sears Die-Hard Platinum in our 2003, 2008, and 2010...hope this helps!!

 

[stemal]

There is something draining your battery for shure, on my gen 3 i had a bad window switch (passenger side), it even trigerd the alarm during nights!.
after changing it , no more problems.
Maybe you should try to find what is draining it, my car is stored in my garage for winter for more than 4 months (Canadian winter), never had a problem before.

 

[HobokenViper]

I'm considering getting a portable rechargeable jumper battery from Sears or any place that sells them. Any suggestions on which ones are best and what the minimum amperage should be for one of those to start up the big V10 engine in the Viper?

Thanks to everyone for all the other good advice. Very much appreciated! The great people on here all make Viper ownership that much more enjoyable.

 

[01sapphirebob]

01sapphirebob, I have a group 34 Sears Die-Hard Platinum in our 2003, 2008, and 2010...hope this helps!!

I've seen two different kinds...The 34/78 (which appears to have side posts as well as top posts) and then just a 34. I'm assuming I want just the 34?

 

[Steve M]

34/78 gives you more options for wiring which was important to me since I'm running an aftermarket stereo...if you just want side posts, just get the 34. It doesn't matter either way.

 

[3whitevipers]

I've use "sleep mode"each time I use the car. I've left them for 3 months without starting in sleep mode with no issues at all--both for my Gen3 and the Gen 4. Maybe I'm just lucky to be in a warm environment where there is less strain on the battery--Dave

 

[TexasTorred]

Not that I ever do this, but I thought that starting your car and letting it run a bit (whether you drive around or it sits idle) charges your battery.....?

A good friend of mine is a great mechanic and owns his own shop.....here is a back and forth we had on 'keeping a battery' fully charged.....I USED to think I could get by just turning it over on the weekends and letting it idle...I was wrong and now went with a battery tender. Sorry, such a long post, but thought it would help others like me who drive their Viper on weekends only and sporadically.........

What is the best/recommended way to keep the battery charged and everything running well....as it is getting cold and cold climates tend to zap some charge out of batteries.

I've heard 1-2% per day, if the car is not driven.

Anyway, what's the best recommendation. Option A) Turn over the car and let it idle a couple times/week, Option B) Turn the car over, get in it and raise the rpms up a little above idle and hold while the alternator does its' thing, etc. Option C). Buy a trickle charger / battery tender--which would seem wasteful as I drive it every weekend and sometimes a few times during the week.

I remember in my youthful days having a Honda CBR600 (a.k.a. crotch rocket) in New Mexico during the winter months, I would start it and let it idle....this seemed to do NOTHING other than drain the battery faster.....(Thus I removed it, brought it inside and charged it up when summer came around).

I think I know what you are going to say, but we'll see.......Ok, I'm ramblin' and now I'm-a-listening....Thanks.

MY FRIENDS RESPONSE ----ok... here it is from YEARS of experience and trying most of the ways you mentioned...

A is a bad idea... it takes 200 amps to crank the engine and over 1/2 hour for the alternator to charge the battery fully at idle. Less than that 30 min and you are only putting in a surface charge and the car will actually be dead again, sooner.
B is a WORSE idea... you are taking a car with little oil pressure and little residual protection and revving it. It does nothing to help charge the battery and is harmful (long term) to the engine.

C is the only plan that will both work and not damage anything. A quality battery tender will use VERY little electricity and will not damage the battery even in long term storage.

Couple more points:
discharging a battery below 9V will radically shorten its life. Repeatedly doing it will kill a new battery in as few as 6 "recharge" cycles (has to do with the acid turning back to water and oxidation, etc)

An alternator is actually not designed to recharge a battery - its designed to keep a battery within a set voltage range (11 - 14V)
Using your alternator to charge a dead battery will kill the alternator fairly quickly - I have seen an alternator killed within 1hour of install when used to charge a fully dead battery.
Remember that an alternators rated amperage is the MAX it can provide. For long life you want to keep the actual usage to under 60% as a rule... when trying to charge a battery the alternator will do whatever it thinks is needed - including going to 100% and burning itself up in the process.


Sounds like in your case whereby you can't use a battery tender....you are best to use 'sleep mode'.......

 

[HobokenViper]

A good friend of mine is a great mechanic and owns his own shop.....here is a back and forth we had on 'keeping a battery' fully charged.....I USED to think I could get by just turning it over on the weekends and letting it idle...I was wrong and now went with a battery tender. Sorry, such a long post, but thought it would help others like me who drive their Viper on weekends only and sporadically.........

What is the best/recommended way to keep the battery charged and everything running well....as it is getting cold and cold climates tend to zap some charge out of batteries.

I've heard 1-2% per day, if the car is not driven.

Anyway, what's the best recommendation. Option A) Turn over the car and let it idle a couple times/week, Option B) Turn the car over, get in it and raise the rpms up a little above idle and hold while the alternator does its' thing, etc. Option C). Buy a trickle charger / battery tender--which would seem wasteful as I drive it every weekend and sometimes a few times during the week.

I remember in my youthful days having a Honda CBR600 (a.k.a. crotch rocket) in New Mexico during the winter months, I would start it and let it idle....this seemed to do NOTHING other than drain the battery faster.....(Thus I removed it, brought it inside and charged it up when summer came around).

I think I know what you are going to say, but we'll see.......Ok, I'm ramblin' and now I'm-a-listening....Thanks.

MY FRIENDS RESPONSE ----ok... here it is from YEARS of experience and trying most of the ways you mentioned...

A is a bad idea... it takes 200 amps to crank the engine and over 1/2 hour for the alternator to charge the battery fully at idle. Less than that 30 min and you are only putting in a surface charge and the car will actually be dead again, sooner.
B is a WORSE idea... you are taking a car with little oil pressure and little residual protection and revving it. It does nothing to help charge the battery and is harmful (long term) to the engine.

C is the only plan that will both work and not damage anything. A quality battery tender will use VERY little electricity and will not damage the battery even in long term storage.

Couple more points:
discharging a battery below 9V will radically shorten its life. Repeatedly doing it will kill a new battery in as few as 6 "recharge" cycles (has to do with the acid turning back to water and oxidation, etc)

An alternator is actually not designed to recharge a battery - its designed to keep a battery within a set voltage range (11 - 14V)
Using your alternator to charge a dead battery will kill the alternator fairly quickly - I have seen an alternator killed within 1hour of install when used to charge a fully dead battery.
Remember that an alternators rated amperage is the MAX it can provide. For long life you want to keep the actual usage to under 60% as a rule... when trying to charge a battery the alternator will do whatever it thinks is needed - including going to 100% and burning itself up in the process.


Sounds like in your case whereby you can't use a battery tender....you are best to use 'sleep mode'.......

Thanks for all this, this is awesome info. I just picked up a portable battery jumpstarter tonight, the Diehard Platinum Portable Power 1150. I think it should be more than what I need to bring the beast back to life to then take to get a heart transplant (aka new battery). charging it up now, and will test it tomorrow night. Probably will use the "sleep mode" from now on, and just look forward to warmer weather and no salt on the ground.

 

[SlayerLS1]

I have a question about this as well. I have the car in storage right now in another location, and I haven't had the time to get back to it since Thanksgiving. I'm assuming the battery is probably discharged by now. It isn't in sleep mode.

The last owner had some hook-ups on the battery for a battery tender, so would I be able to hook up a battery tender to the car and recharge it? I have no need to actually start the car right now.

Here's another question - my car is tuned. If the battery is dead and the ECU resets, will I have to re-load the tune as well?

Edit: The car is a Gen III.

 

[01sapphirebob]

I have a question about this as well. I have the car in storage right now in another location, and I haven't had the time to get back to it since Thanksgiving. I'm assuming the battery is probably discharged by now. It isn't in sleep mode.

The last owner had some hook-ups on the battery for a battery tender, so would I be able to hook up a battery tender to the car and recharge it? I have no need to actually start the car right now.

Here's another question - my car is tuned. If the battery is dead and the ECU resets, will I have to re-load the tune as well?

Edit: The car is a Gen III.

Not sure about your tune but as far as the battery goes you could charge it up but you will need to get a new battery as soon as you can.

 

[SlayerLS1]

Damn, okay. I was hoping I could just recharge it.

 

[PeterMJ]

Damn, okay. I was hoping I could just recharge it.

You and others can go to autozone and have the battery tested to make sure you indeed need a replacement.

 

[PeterMJ]

You cannot recharge battery with a battery tender, just like you cannot do it with an alternator. Battery maintainers do just that-maintain voltage and capacity that are already there. If your battery is low but still functional, AFTER you had the battery tested to verify it, you need a good quality charger to charge up the battery to revive it.

I have a question about this as well. I have the car in storage right now in another location, and I haven't had the time to get back to it since Thanksgiving. I'm assuming the battery is probably discharged by now. It isn't in sleep mode.

The last owner had some hook-ups on the battery for a battery tender, so would I be able to hook up a battery tender to the car and recharge it? I have no need to actually start the car right now.

Here's another question - my car is tuned. If the battery is dead and the ECU resets, will I have to re-load the tune as well?

Edit: The car is a Gen III.

 

[Steve M]

You cannot recharge battery with a battery tender, just like you cannot do it with an alternator. Battery maintainers do just that-maintain voltage and capacity that are already there. If your battery is low but still functional, AFTER you had the battery tested to verify it, you need a good quality charger to charge up the battery to revive it.

This is true...a battery tender is designed to be hooked up directly after you get done parking the car. It can only really top up a battery and keep it there, not bring one back from the dead.

As for the other question about whether or not a custom tune will need to be reloaded, unless the Viper is unlike any other car I've messed with, the tune will not be affected by a dead battery. Now, it will likely reset all of the emissions readiness checks and stuff like fuel trims, but the rest of the important stuff will always be there.

 

[ViperGeorge]

One other thing to note if you buy one of the newer AGM batteries such as the Sears Die Hard Platinum you will need a charger and/or trickle charger that will work with AGM batteries, many do not. The Battery Tender Plus does, available from Sears and other places. Regular Battery Tender does not work with AGM style batteries. I did not know this when I bought the Platinum Die Hard and couldn't figure out why it died even with a trickle charger connected.

 

[ACRucrazy]

This thread made me think about the 2008 in my garage.

I headed out and sure enough it was dead. With that, neither of my keys will unlock the door on the driver side. I have never used that key cyl in the drivers door and know the locks are a bit different in the viper. The key seemed to only turn 1 way. Can anyone fill me in on the key cyl in the drivers door?

My owners manual is locked in my dead viper.. LOL I assumed it was there to unlock the door in case your remote died, however it appears you need a good battery to do so?

I pulled the battery out the back last night and have it on the charger.

 

[PeterMJ]

One other thing to note if you buy one of the newer AGM batteries such as the Sears Die Hard Platinum you will need a charger and/or trickle charger that will work with AGM batteries, many do not. The Battery Tender Plus does, available from Sears and other places. Regular Battery Tender does not work with AGM style batteries. I did not know this when I bought the Platinum Die Hard and couldn't figure out why it died even with a trickle charger connected.

Charger yes, trickle though not, any trickle will do just fine-do not fall a victim to marketing claims.

 

[ViperGeorge]

I did not fall victim to marketing claims. None of my battery tenders (regardless of brand) would keep the AGM battery charged, I tried them all but the battery always went dead. Only the Battery Tender Plus worked.

 

[Lespauldude]

I did not fall victim to marketing claims. None of my battery tenders (regardless of brand) would keep the AGM battery charged, I tried them all but the battery always went dead. Only the Battery Tender Plus worked.

The BT + is the one that I use as well. Never tried the regular BT but you would think that it would work as well. Perhaps a defect of some sort?

 

[Steve-Indy]

Along the same lines a gbatejan's advice...I would add that IF one does indeed go with the Die-Hard Platinum, take note of the fact that Sears ADDED a specific setting to their OWN charger labeled "Die-Hard Platinum" about a year or two ago. This setting puts their charger intio a different charging pattern than that used for other AGM batteries (per their manual..."NOTE: When DieHard Platinum is selected, the default charge rate will be 40A Rapid."). This final, specific, fourth battery type setting follows the usual three settings..."Standard", "Deep Cycle", "AGM/Gel".

JUST BE AWARE thta nothing is simple !!

 

[PeterMJ]

I am pretty sure you did, LOL. What was the rating on your other maintainers? My generic maintainers are rated at 3 Amps and work great on all of my vehicles, including one that uses as a matter of fact Sears AGM battery. To give you an idea, my Viper has been sitting since August, just started it up a couple of days ago to turn it around. I wouild start looking at the specs of maintainers, not brand to make sure they can meet your specific needs.

I did not fall victim to marketing claims. None of my battery tenders (regardless of brand) would keep the AGM battery charged, I tried them all but the battery always went dead. Only the Battery Tender Plus worked.

 

[Steve-Indy]

The charging alogrhythm matters !!! Take a quick look:

http://batterytender.com/resources/battery-basics.htm/#answer2

MORE than most want to know:

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/

 

[PeterMJ]

You are another victim. Sears does not make batteries, for Platinum, they re-brand Enersys product available also under Odyssey brand for more money. Johnson is the manufacturer of their other lines, including Gold. There is nothing special about Platinum batteries to separate them from other AGM batteries, including chargers. LOL at this scheme by Sears and people falling for it. Makes you wonder how much more did Sears have to pay their Chinese supplier to add this extra setting on the charger, maybe a nickel?

Along the same lines a gbatejan's advice...I would add that IF one does indeed go with the Die-Hard Platinum, take note of the fact that Sears ADDED a specific setting to their OWN charger labeled "Die-Hard Platinum" about a year or two ago. This setting puts their charger intio a different charging pattern than that used for other AGM batteries (per their manual..."NOTE: When DieHard Platinum is selected, the default charge rate will be 40A Rapid."). This final, specific, fourth battery type setting follows the usual three settings..."Standard", "Deep Cycle", "AGM/Gel".

JUST BE AWARE thta nothing is simple !!