Ulysses
Enthusiast
definitely keep us updated! Sounds very interesting, are they smog legal?
Best Headers tested currently
- Thread starter Ulysses
- Start date
Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder
Enthusiast
I know Edelbrock are 50 state legal. Have heard that Borla has legal headers the rest to my knowledge are not 50 state legal. I have used Edelbrock on my 97GTS and 96RT10. Both very nice. Have to confess that I am about to sin with headers not approved but the system hopefully will pass the sniff test. CDI is will select the headers that make the best average HP and Torque. Dan Cargin will also keep "you all" posted.
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BWoodbury
Enthusiast
Fred. I would not worry too much about passing the snif test. So long as your O2 sensors and cat are working, I don't think any exhaust system would fail the test. Certainly not the one they do here in IL.
I biggest reason that exhaust components are not 50 state certified is that companies simply do not want to pay for the testing / certification process.
I biggest reason that exhaust components are not 50 state certified is that companies simply do not want to pay for the testing / certification process.
jcaspar1
Enthusiast
I would not be worried about the sniff test, but here in CA I would worry about passing the visual inspection. In my experience you will fail if your headers do not have a CARB number clearly marked on them. This assumes that the tech notices that you have headers. I had no trouble passing my Chevy K2500 with Edelbrock headers but the tech did check for the CARB number. Of course, headers on a pickup are a little more obvious than headers on a Viper. Because of these concerns I may end up going with Edelbrocks on my 97 GTS rather than another non 50 state approved model.
Martin
Enthusiast
If you can get the heat shield to fit over the headers, you're probably home free.
BWoodbury
Enthusiast
Ok Dan, It's tomorrow... Getting to be late tomorrow... You've teased us enough... Details Please!
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Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder
Enthusiast
I live in California and cert. is a concern. I am aware that aftermarket exh systems will pass sniff on stock engines. The engine Dan Cragin is reporting HP is not stock and the HP/Torque is over 600 on an engine dyno. Thus the sniff issue, cam and piston (higher compression)contribution and other mods to support (Computer, fuel supply) the increase in HP/torque.
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Brad Manhattan Beach
Viper Owner
Dan:
If you need a stock GTS to test on, let me know if I can help. I'm pretty close to your location.
Regards,
Brad
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dan Cragin:
We are waiting to compare numbers on a stock engine. The engine they were tested on made 630hp. The headers are stainless, stepped tubed and have burns merge collecters.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
If you need a stock GTS to test on, let me know if I can help. I'm pretty close to your location.
Regards,
Brad
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dan Cragin:
We are waiting to compare numbers on a stock engine. The engine they were tested on made 630hp. The headers are stainless, stepped tubed and have burns merge collecters.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Svsi
Enthusiast
Dan SVSI also makes 1 5/8ths 1 3/4 with Burns collectors we made
two sets for Special Vehicle Engineering one set was for there land speed car. That is around 800hp to run at Bonnieville in 2001 .Dan our headers are 100% purge welded no one else in Viper
land does this for Maximum Strength and Durability .Happy Holidays .
Ron
SVSI
two sets for Special Vehicle Engineering one set was for there land speed car. That is around 800hp to run at Bonnieville in 2001 .Dan our headers are 100% purge welded no one else in Viper
land does this for Maximum Strength and Durability .Happy Holidays .
Ron
SVSI
Mamba man steve
Enthusiast
Question what is purge welded?????????????
ACR Joe
Enthusiast
Purge welded means that the internal and external welding surfaces are inerted with an argon atmosphere. This process largely precludes weld cavitation and enhances weld *********** and strength.
Jerry Scott[CO]
Viper Owner
If any of these headers have slip tubes instead of bolted flange connections, I don't see how they could possibly get a CARB certification due to the gas leakage at the slip joints.
Mike Brunton
Enthusiast
ACR Joe,
How does this differ from MIG Welding? Is the difference that BOTH the inside and outside of the weld are surrounded by argon?
Just trying to figure out how this is different from MIG....
How does this differ from MIG Welding? Is the difference that BOTH the inside and outside of the weld are surrounded by argon?
Just trying to figure out how this is different from MIG....
GTS Dean
Enthusiast
Mike,
Sorry to intrude, but MIG and TIG both use Argon sheilding gas to minimize oxidation and hydrogen embrittlement of the weld area. Flux-cored MIG wire or coated stick electrodes float oxidants and other impurities to the surface of the bead which are then removed mechanically, or manually. ( "_IG" means Inert Gas for those who may be reading the thread ) When welding a tubular member in a stress-critical application, the tube can be capped and purged of atmospheric air, which is then replaced by an inert gas.
MIG is a continuous wire-feed process with the wire acting as the electrode, whereas TIG requires manual application of filler rod into the arc near the (essentially) non-consumable Tungsten electrode.
Sorry to intrude, but MIG and TIG both use Argon sheilding gas to minimize oxidation and hydrogen embrittlement of the weld area. Flux-cored MIG wire or coated stick electrodes float oxidants and other impurities to the surface of the bead which are then removed mechanically, or manually. ( "_IG" means Inert Gas for those who may be reading the thread ) When welding a tubular member in a stress-critical application, the tube can be capped and purged of atmospheric air, which is then replaced by an inert gas.
MIG is a continuous wire-feed process with the wire acting as the electrode, whereas TIG requires manual application of filler rod into the arc near the (essentially) non-consumable Tungsten electrode.
Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder
Enthusiast
Dan is pretty busy. Claude Short was bought by a BMW/Mercedes dealership (I think). The are changing locations (6 blocks). The engine in question should be completed by CDI next week.
Mike Brunton
Enthusiast
GTS Dean,
Thanks for the info... I have a MIG welder and I've done a bunch of MIG and TIG welding (with both gas and flux wire), so I was familar with that aspect of it.
What I was wondering was what is the difference between Purge welding and MIG welding? ACR Joe said that the "internal and external surfaces are interted with argon" - and I know the gas I use in my MIG is an Argon and (I believe) Nitrogen mix. I know that the MIG process flows gas where the weld occurs so that you don't get the impurities in the weld, but what's the diff between MIG and Purge? I was wondering if it was only that BOTH sides of the weld are inerted, because if you were MIG welding something enclosed (like a pipe), the gas wouldn't be getting inside so the inside could be susceptible to impurities in the weld.
I know this is way off the original topic, but I find this stuff interesting! Dean, if you can help me understand the difference I'd appreciate it!
Thanks for the info... I have a MIG welder and I've done a bunch of MIG and TIG welding (with both gas and flux wire), so I was familar with that aspect of it.
What I was wondering was what is the difference between Purge welding and MIG welding? ACR Joe said that the "internal and external surfaces are interted with argon" - and I know the gas I use in my MIG is an Argon and (I believe) Nitrogen mix. I know that the MIG process flows gas where the weld occurs so that you don't get the impurities in the weld, but what's the diff between MIG and Purge? I was wondering if it was only that BOTH sides of the weld are inerted, because if you were MIG welding something enclosed (like a pipe), the gas wouldn't be getting inside so the inside could be susceptible to impurities in the weld.
I know this is way off the original topic, but I find this stuff interesting! Dean, if you can help me understand the difference I'd appreciate it!
bad viper
Enthusiast
California Viper owners who need a smog
contact me. I have a person who "understands" ViperS
contact me. I have a person who "understands" ViperS
GTS Dean
Enthusiast
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike Brunton:
I was wondering if it was only that BOTH sides of the weld are inerted, because if you were MIG welding something enclosed (like a pipe), the gas wouldn't be getting inside so the inside could be susceptible to impurities in the weld.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
My quote:
"When welding a tubular member in a stress-critical application, the tube can be capped and purged of atmospheric air, which is then replaced by an inert gas."
Mike,
The purge technique removes atmospheric hydrogen and oxygen from the back side of the weld. MIG and TIG normally control the atmosphere on only one side of the weld.
If there is sufficient room to access the opposite side, critical weldments (like pressure vessels and steel bridge girders) are back-gouged and built up from the opposite side to remove inclusions from the root of the weld area. In a small diameter tube with a very thin wall, that is not practical, or even possible, in most cases.
I was wondering if it was only that BOTH sides of the weld are inerted, because if you were MIG welding something enclosed (like a pipe), the gas wouldn't be getting inside so the inside could be susceptible to impurities in the weld.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
My quote:
"When welding a tubular member in a stress-critical application, the tube can be capped and purged of atmospheric air, which is then replaced by an inert gas."
Mike,
The purge technique removes atmospheric hydrogen and oxygen from the back side of the weld. MIG and TIG normally control the atmosphere on only one side of the weld.
If there is sufficient room to access the opposite side, critical weldments (like pressure vessels and steel bridge girders) are back-gouged and built up from the opposite side to remove inclusions from the root of the weld area. In a small diameter tube with a very thin wall, that is not practical, or even possible, in most cases.
Mike Brunton
Enthusiast
Dean,
Thanks for the clarification. Regarding your quote, I wasn't sure if you were defining 'purge welding' or if purge welding was something more complex. Thanks for the info!
I guess I could feed another line off my MIG welder's gas tank and do 'purge welding' at home by flowing gas on both sides of the weld.
Thanks for the info!
Thanks for the clarification. Regarding your quote, I wasn't sure if you were defining 'purge welding' or if purge welding was something more complex. Thanks for the info!
I guess I could feed another line off my MIG welder's gas tank and do 'purge welding' at home by flowing gas on both sides of the weld.
Thanks for the info!
Dan, Which header "made 10hp more than anything we have ever tested (across the board)." and What are the details, on this? <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dan Cragin:Well, we have tried just about every header out there, SVP, SVS,TNT, HMS, B&B, Borla, Edelbrock, Belanger and more. Some made more power on modified engines, some had more torque at lower rpm, some had better midrange, some are smog legal, some are not.
Well we just tested a header on the engine dyno and it made
10hp more than anything we have ever tested (across the board).
More testing by Caldwell tommorrow, we will let you know.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<FONT COLOR="#ff0000" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by Marv S on May 08, 2001 at 01:26</font>
Well we just tested a header on the engine dyno and it made
10hp more than anything we have ever tested (across the board).
More testing by Caldwell tommorrow, we will let you know.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<FONT COLOR="#ff0000" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by Marv S on May 08, 2001 at 01:26</font>
