Best place for head work

[MES]

I want to get a set of heads, Viper heads that is. Anyone have opinions? I want a new set (either new Mopar or a used core) because I want to keep mine factory original. I want a complete new set (or used core) along with all the hardware, springs, rockers, valves, install kit (bolts, gaskets, etc.) as I'm going to do the install myself. The only two places I'm considering at the moment is Apex and BRT mainly because these are the only two that I know of AND (a big and) also trust to do the work.

At Apex they want to sell a new set of Mopar heads ported, polished, springs, rockers, etc. but the price seems kind of high plus I don't know of any one else that has their heads. I would like to hear some results if anyone has installed their heads.

At BTR they have a more reasonable price and I know of some people that have them installed. The results seem in line with others as far as performance goes.

Now I know there must be others that do this type of work. I think "House of Speed" did HMS heads before JH problems became public. They seemed to have the best flowing and biggest HP gains. However I don't know if they are still doing Viper stuff or having any *problems* related to HMS which I don't want to get involved with.

So here's the dilemma -> I'm going to give $5K-$8K away to some "tuner" and I want the best head available, but I also don't want to get screwed by an unknown (to me) tuner. I will also post my results regarding the heads HP gains here, in public. Anyway, I want to get started on it BY THE END OF THE WEEK yes I'm going to do it ASAP. So any comments or recommendations on where to get the heads would be welcome (if you don't want to post in public e-mail me) I'm open to all comments and suggestions.

Thanks

 

[THEMASH]

BTR and Apex would get my vote also. Heffner has some good heads; they made more power then any set of heads i know of. Jason Heffner had T&D rockers and his heads and was making close to 490RWHP, thats with a stock exhaust and headers. give him a call.
Another thing to remember is you need to find out what compression the heads will have. Some might guarantee so much power, but in fact they do it by raising your compression, and you need to be careful with that since ur running NOS. so, ask about compression. i know BTR keeps their heads at a stock compression since Tom uses them with his NOS, not sure about Apex and Heffner. i am pretty sure that Hennessey’s heads raised compression, i think that’s why Ben Treynor could only run so much NOS after he got them installed, ask him to make sure though.

 

[Mike Brunton]

MES,

You should talk to "venom lover". He is in the same boat as you are and might be getting rid of his stock heads (and you said you were looking) - I dont know though.

One place you should consider is Caldwell (ask Fred Kinder). They are the guys that did the motors for the Team Oreca Vipers and they are definitely at the top of their game in terms of Viper heads. They might be $$s though.

Ask Ben Treynor about his experience with this HMS heads on the juice too... they didn't work out for him as far as I know.

Finally on the House Of Speed thing, one of their guys used to work at HMS - not sure how involved he was with doing heads. From what I know HMS outsourced their headwork to an outside company, and that outside company is now TNT Motorsports (Roy Terpstra who posts on this board).

I didnt have heads on my GTS so I can't comment personally, but these are some of the names you might want to consider in addition to the ones you already mentioned.

 

[Martin D]

Hey MES,

If you want a set of HMS VENOM heads, send me an Email. I think I can accomodate you. Also, some of the above information regarding where/how HMS does the modification is incorrect. I know first hand. Maybe Ben can comment on his experience - I know of several HMS cars running 150 to 200 shots with no problems.

You will be hard pressed to find a better setup and you certainly will not see better flow numbers. In regards to the Mopar performance heads - you will be starting from a better platform. However, your intake is a limiting factor in either Mopar or stock heads. So why spend the extra?

Good luck with your upgrades.

Regards,

 

[Doug Supercharged Vipers]

MES -

There are too many mitigating factors surrounding your head selection.
Martin brought up an interesting point regarding limiting factors with any head/intake combo too.

Be careful purchasing heads that advertise "Making the highest horsepower." What are your ultimate goals for your head selection? What may be good for one application may not suffice for another. Especially when using nitrous!

Give me a call If you have some free time or......

As Mike suggested... Caldwell (Fred Kinder) & TNT Motorsports (Roy Terpstra), both are excellent choices.

Best Regards,
Doug

 

[Anthony - 98 GTS]

Mike,

My GTS is currently at the House of Speed here in Houston. They have done great work on my car including heads and cam at very reasonable prices. My head flow numbers are the best I have seen published - anywhere.

My car should be finished by the 24th and then I will post my head flow and dyno numbers. Give Kyle at the House of Speed a call at 281.821.3559 and he should be able to answer any questions or e-mail me and I can answer your questions from a customers point of view and will send you some pics of my heads.

Anthony

 

[MES]

A couple of follow ups. I'm going to keep the stock cam and probably will not change it unless I rebuild the motor at some time in the future (planing on putting 100K+ miles on the Viper over the years, 27K now). I also want to stay as close as possible to the stock compression. I'm running nitrous at the moment but at some time in the future I want to put a forced induction system on (mild 6-8 psi) and ditch the nitrous (maybe later this year, don't know) I just want to add some more power without getting too crazy or expensive.

 

[Maverick The Electrician]

Are you planning on doing a cam also? Or only headwork? If so shoot me an email, some of the tuners on this board couldn't pick a cam if their life depended on it.

 

[BWoodbury]

Mike,

If you have $5K to $8K to spend and want to "add some more power without getting too crazy or expensive" why not get one of Sean Roe's Supercharger kits? You get a LOT more power than you would with head work and there are almost no variables involved. You can pretty much count on getting the HP promised for the money you spend.

 

[HP]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Albert Chlouber:
Are you planning on doing a cam also? Or only headwork? If so shoot me an email, some of the tuners on this board couldn't pick a cam if their life depended on it.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

YIKES!!! YOUR SCARING US! MAYBE TUNERS NEED TO BE TESTED FOR RECERTIFICATION.

 

[MES]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
If you have $5K to $8K to spend and want to "add some more power without getting too crazy or expensive" why not get one of Sean Roe's Supercharger kits? You get a LOT more power than you would with head work and there are almost no variables involved. You can pretty much count on getting the HP promised for the money you spend.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not enough power

with the Roe supercharger it's only 540 rwhp. With heads I should have near 500 rwhp. The difference of 40 is not worth it to me to go supercharged. N/A 500 rwhp is safer & more reliable than 540 supercharged HP.

 

[Marc Lublin]

LOL, am I the only one that got Dan B's joke?

 

[Mike Brunton]

No Marc, you are just the only one that thought it was funny!

 

[Tom Welch]

Mike,

Ive got a set of Stage 2 heads in stock right now that you can purchase with NO EXCHANGE that will allow you to keep or sell(to help recoup some of your cost). We can mill them to add compression but I don't recommend it for nitrous use in your application.

Again, I guarantee the horsepower of our cylinder heads, and our stage 2 head on your Viper will gain at least 45 hp.

We can arrange for installation at our new facility in Orlando..only if you promise not to take a peak at the "new stuff" underway.

You've got lots of choices. I sure would not want to make this kind of modification twice!

Tom
Http://btrviper.com

I also have a very good cam that you can test drive in a 2001 Viper at our shop that made over 510 to the tires with stock compression, has great idle quality and made 30+ more horsepower on nitrous than my Viper with its stock cam.

 

[Mike Adams]

I have two sets of heads available completely stock. So you can get your own work done. Or I can have them word just for nitros if you wish. The year of your car will make a difference on how I would suggest you do your heads. Call me if you want.

Thanks

Mike Adams

 

[MES]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Tom Welch:

Ive got a set of Stage 2 heads in stock right now that you can purchase with NO EXCHANGE
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You've got e-mail

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>DgeViper1:

LOL, am I the only one that got Dan B's joke?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope, I knew there would be a wise guy here

so my very first sentence was "Viper heads that is"

now about that oriental place...

 

[King GTS]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mike Brunton:
No Marc, you are just the only one that thought it was funny!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

[Mike Brunton]

Martin,

Is there a "secret" about the HMS heads? I thought the boys from TNT designed alot of the headwork for HMS originally.

No matter... TNT has proven themselves worthy of uber-tuner status, even if they never touched a set of HMS heads.

I *DO* know of at least one person who had a set of HMS heads crack, and I know of TWO other people who had $hitty headwork done - one had the head ground too close to the waterjacket weakening it, and... well, ask Marc Lublin about the other one

It may be a problem with HMS's head guy - who knows - but I would personally be wary of using these with nitrous - but then again, I dont have NOS or a Viper, so what do I know?

 

[MES]

Thanks for all your help guys! I've decided to go with BTR stage 2 (stock) heads and T&D rockers. The concessus seemed to be the Mopar aftermarket head would make a bit more power but costs $2k more. So I'm going to save the $2K and buy some ET streets & skinnies with it

I'm sure that $2K spent on the tires will give me much better ET's than the 10 extra HP from Mopar heads would

I'll post some pics and results when done.

 

[HouseofSpeed]

I think that too many people are misinformed about cylinder head modifications and what is available in the market. I have yet to see anyone's numbers eclipse those that I am offering in my Viper head program. Remembering all the while that the intake is the limiting factor with these cars...and then the fuel system and fuel management would be next on the list of roadblocks to performance.

Those that are interested in the heads we are offering can e-mail or call...281-821-3559.

 

[GO 4LO]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HouseofSpeed:
I think that too many people are misinformed about cylinder head modifications and what is available in the market. I have yet to see anyone's numbers eclipse those that I am offering in my Viper head program. Remembering all the while that the intake is the limiting factor with these cars...and then the fuel system and fuel management would be next on the list of roadblocks to performance.

Those that are interested in the heads we are offering can e-mail or call...281-821-3559.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Could you post the flow numbers here? It'd be interesting to see everyone's flow numbers side by side, so we can do a flow-vs-cost comparison.

Chris