Brake Ducts...

[NastyGTS]

Have any of you guys actually traced the ducting on the bottom side?

I was walking past the car this afternoon and thought " I want to see if the pieces are similar to the c5/c6 ducting"

I was surprised.


The passenger rear looks like a cotton material hose that is just dangling in the frame. Nothing pointing into the rotor area.

The driver side.... I found the hole in the frame......but cannot locate the hose. ( car is not on a lift.)

I am going to look a little further this evening and also examine the front.

Maybe this is the way SRT designed the plumbing but I do not see how this is even beneficial

Anyone else?

 

[NastyGTS]

http://media.ed.edmunds-media.com/srt/viper/2013/fe/2013_srt_viper_det_fe_12201211_600.jpg

http://media.ed.edmunds-media.com/srt/viper/2013/fe/2013_srt_viper_det_fe_122012162_600.jpg

The snorkle in these 2 photos are missing........ maybe a part for T.P. Only?

 

[mnc2886]

Who knows, but they look good.

 

[kratedisease]

Have any of you guys actually traced the ducting on the bottom side?

I was walking past the car this afternoon and thought " I want to see if the pieces are similar to the c5/c6 ducting"

I was surprised.


The passenger rear looks like a cotton material hose that is just dangling in the frame. Nothing pointing into the rotor area.

The driver side.... I found the hole in the frame......but cannot locate the hose. ( car is not on a lift.)

I am going to look a little further this evening and also examine the front.

Maybe this is the way SRT designed the plumbing but I do not see how this is even beneficial

Anyone else?

Please do NOT type or say anything like " C5/C6" here on the V-I-P-E-R forums...... you might get kicked off !!! some angry members might report you .....

 

[KB Viper]

Please do NOT type or say anything like " C5/C6" here on the V-I-P-E-R forums...... you might get kicked off !!! some angry members might report you .....

are you serious? that would be lame, isn't that what this forum is for, to ask questions about our cars and compare them to other performance cars?

 

[ViperSmith]

are you serious? that would be lame, isn't that what this forum is for, to ask questions about our cars and compare them to other performance cars?

Don't encourage.

 

[KB Viper]

Don't encourage.

encourage what, other members to ask questions?

 

[ViperSmith]

encourage what, other members to ask questions?

I sent you a PM

 

[NastyGTS]

Please do NOT type or say anything like " C5/C6" here on the V-I-P-E-R forums...... you might get kicked off !!! some angry members might report you .....

Seriously..... please refrain from posting useless comments in threads. I'm speaking for everyone that has thought this "**** & go on"

 

[kratedisease]

Mr NastyGTS, every good mechanical engineer knows that there can ONLY be THREE reasons the duct is designed this way....

Remember that engineers designed the car and ,

1) possibly too much air directed to the outer wheel/disc area (if the duct is pointed outwards towards the brake caliper/disc) would cause exterior/lateral turbulence in the outer wheel well area, exterior the body of the car and affect the ability of the viper to have a low Cd resistance and possibly this turbulence near the wheel well would affect that Cd. The idea is NOT to have too much positive air pressure exiting the wheels wells laterally since any positive air pressure exiting the wheel wells would displace the air traveling across the exterior of the body of the car and cause Air flow disruption. For those who do NOT have any basic engineering back ground, the affect of lateral air displacement out of the wheel wells would be the equivalent of opening your side window just an inch at 150mph, where it would slow down the car simply from the added wind turbulence exiting the side window, that increases the overall Cd rolling resistance of the car.

or

2) The engineers went out to lunch/went to a corporate Xmas party and totally forgot about finishing the air hose engineering.

or

3) The crack smoking fat slob who married the local stripper who works on the assembly line forgot to finish attaching the last air duct hose pieces on your car,


AND by the way when I said "C5/C6" I was just saying that C5/C6 "Cervical Vertebra" (neck bones), although important for Cervical (neck) range of motion, should be discussed on the Orthopedic/Cervical Neck Forums and not here on the V-I-P-E-R forums.....PLUEZZZZZZZE ......LETS STAY ON TOPIC !!

Always a pleasure to help out you fellas here on the forum.

 

[DMan]

You say rear of the car, are you not talking about the front brakes If you do mean to talk about the rear then this is the confusion, there are no brakes cooling ducts on the rear. People keep making that mistake including mags. The vents are cooling for the rear diff.

 

[DMan]

http://media.ed.edmunds-media.com/srt/viper/2013/fe/2013_srt_viper_det_fe_12201211_600.jpghttp://media.ed.edmunds-media.com/srt/viper/2013/fe/2013_srt_viper_det_fe_122012162_600.jpgThe snorkle in these 2 photos are missing........ maybe a part for T.P. Only?

The normal SRT or GTS using the vents for diff, this is a TA and is setup a bit differently. Until we see production TAs we'll not know for sure but appears they snorkeled these to help with the brake issues with the MT test.

 

[NastyGTS]

The normal SRT or GTS using the vents for diff, this is a TA and is setup a bit differently. Until we see production TAs we'll not know for sure but appears they snorkeled these to help with the brake issues with the MT test.

thanks for the info. I will snap some pics this evening for actual visual reference.

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

The vents are for the brakes not the diff as stated early on in the release. The hoses seem short, but I think there will be a revision that will be out to address this at some point. I'm sure there is an engineering issue as far as air flow and turbulence as stated, but I won't act as though I know anything about that aspect.

 

[kratedisease]

The vents are for the brakes not the diff as stated early on in the release. The hoses seem short, but I think there will be a revision that will be out to address this at some point. I'm sure there is an engineering issue as far as air flow and turbulence as stated, but I won't act as though I know anything about that aspect.

See, I'm always right ( correct)..... just as I posted in my above reply !!!

I must Pat myself on the back again......boy you fellas are lucky I post here on the forums!!

Always a pleasure to help out ....

 

[DMan]

The vents are for the brakes not the diff as stated early on in the release. The hoses seem short, but I think there will be a revision that will be out to address this at some point. I'm sure there is an engineering issue as far as air flow and turbulence as stated, but I won't act as though I know anything about that aspect.

Mark, are you referring to the TA exclusively? I had a 10 discussion with Ralph when we went over the car just about those vents. A reporter was there and asked about the rear brake ducts and Ralph corrected him saying it was for the diff and that in testing rear brake cooling wasn't and issue but the diff was. It was quite a conversation and him correcting the reporter. This was on a GTS as the TA had yet to be released at that time.

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

All of the models have rear brake ducts run from the side intakes. As for the reason for the change I cannot comment on that, but on the Gen4 you needed a external cooler for track sessions longer then 30 minutes so I doubt that ducting air across the diff would eliminate the need for this anyway.

 

[PeerBlock]

1) possibly too much air directed to the outer wheel/disc area (if the duct is pointed outwards towards the brake caliper/disc) would cause exterior/lateral turbulence in the outer wheel well area, exterior the body of the car and affect the ability of the viper to have a low Cd resistance and possibly this turbulence near the wheel well would affect that Cd. The idea is NOT to have too much positive air pressure exiting the wheels wells laterally since any positive air pressure exiting the wheel wells would displace the air traveling across the exterior of the body of the car and cause Air flow disruption. For those who do NOT have any basic engineering back ground, the affect of lateral air displacement out of the wheel wells would be the equivalent of opening your side window just an inch at 150mph, where it would slow down the car simply from the added wind turbulence exiting the side window, that increases the overall Cd rolling resistance of the car.

Nice over-analysis, but your assessment is flawed. If the ducts were positioned to blow air toward the brake calipers, outward through the wheel, the aerodynamic 'interference' would be substantially less than what you get by having two mirrors sticking out of the doors. PLUS, the lateral airflow would be slowed by the wheels themselves, so if you viewed this in a dye tank you'd see a slight distortion...but nothing that would significantly affect the car's drag coefficient.

Any engineer worthy of greatness follows the principle set forth in occam's razor - that is, to find the simplest solution to a given problem. Hybrid cars, for instance, go entirely against this principle and are therefore examples of morongineering - stupid people with engineering degrees attempting to justify their paychecks by producing overly complicated solutions to non-existent problems (the Honda CRX from the 80s got better MPG than their current hybrid does, and it was more fun to drive). Since SRT doesn't have the budget to hire a bunch of morongineers in an effort to fill some bull**** workplace diversity quota, the ones they did hire surely know their stuff.

So, with that said, it is my estimation that the ducts are there to assist in regulating the brake temperature by allowing them to reach and stay at an optimal temperature...hence the indirect cooling. Yes, like your engine, brakes do not necessarily work better just because they are cooler and SRT knows this. Brembo brake pads are designed to work optimally within a range of 400-600 degrees F, so it would be counterproductive to over-cool them by blowing too much air directly onto them, just as it would be to let them overheat and fade.

 

[Nine Ball]

PB, are you a degreed engineer? What industry?

I can put my car on the lift this weekend and snap some pics. I know the front ducts exit behind the front wheels, and I'm pretty sure I saw those ducts on the rear when I had the wheel off. Didn't pay attention at the time.

 

[kratedisease]

Nice over-analysis, but your assessment is flawed. If the ducts were positioned to blow air toward the brake calipers, outward through the wheel, the aerodynamic 'interference' would be substantially less than what you get by having two mirrors sticking out of the doors. PLUS, the lateral airflow would be slowed by the wheels themselves, so if you viewed this in a dye tank you'd see a slight distortion...but nothing that would significantly affect the car's drag coefficient.

Any engineer worthy of greatness follows the principle set forth in occam's razor - that is, to find the simplest solution to a given problem. Hybrid cars, for instance, go entirely against this principle and are therefore examples of morongineering - stupid people with engineering degrees attempting to justify their paychecks by producing overly complicated solutions to non-existent problems (the Honda CRX from the 80s got better MPG than their current hybrid does, and it was more fun to drive). Since SRT doesn't have the budget to hire a bunch of morongineers in an effort to fill some bull**** workplace diversity quota, the ones they did hire surely know their stuff.

So, with that said, it is my estimation that the ducts are there to assist in regulating the brake temperature by allowing them to reach and stay at an optimal temperature...hence the indirect cooling. Yes, like your engine, brakes do not necessarily work better just because they are cooler and SRT knows this. Brembo brake pads are designed to work optimally within a range of 400-600 degrees F, so it would be counterproductive to over-cool them by blowing too much air directly onto them, just as it would be to let them overheat and fade.

.... yes you are correct Mr. PeterBlock.

I was wrong and thank you for your comprehensive reply.

By the way.... do you think I should do more reps or heavier weights when I am doing my biceps for max growth ?

and what supplements would you recommend for fastest muscle growth ?

 

[Jack B]

Did the G4 have the same cut out in the rear belly pan.

All of the models have rear brake ducts run from the side intakes. As for the reason for the change I cannot comment on that, but on the Gen4 you needed a external cooler for track sessions longer then 30 minutes so I doubt that ducting air across the diff would eliminate the need for this anyway.

 

[DMan]

All of the models have rear brake ducts run from the side intakes. As for the reason for the change I cannot comment on that, but on the Gen4 you needed a external cooler for track sessions longer then 30 minutes so I doubt that ducting air across the diff would eliminate the need for this anyway.

Very interesting. Ralph was really specific and spoke of testing etc. I questioned the need for rear brake cooling etc and he continued to say it wasn't a factor in their testing but the diff. was. Funny he could be wrong on this with such detail. Silly me, listening to the CEO, should've asked Eric when I drove the gen5 he was with me, blew that oppty being too giddy about the car .. and him.

 

[PeerBlock]

PB, are you a degreed engineer? What industry?

I can put my car on the lift this weekend and snap some pics. I know the front ducts exit behind the front wheels, and I'm pretty sure I saw those ducts on the rear when I had the wheel off. Didn't pay attention at the time.

Whether or not I have a degree in a given industry depends on the conversation we are having.

The front ducts exit in front of the wheel on the inner part of the well near the bottom, aimed on an angle in the general direction of the brakes, and they are quite a bit bigger than the rear ducts. This makes sense since the front brakes do the majority (~80%) of the braking and get hotter faster, so they would not be sufficiently cooled by using an indirect method as the rear does.

 

[DMan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeqvtCCuJdo&feature=player_embedded#



In fact here's Ralph talking about the ducts as diff coolers, not brake?....At 1:50 in the vid. But, he's not an engineer so, I dunno.

 

[DMan]

BTW, just for the record, Mark, I'd take your opinion over SRT anyway, actually. LoL. Just making conversation.

Not a point for me personally, I do 20 min track sessions with the vipers, so I'll never be pushing into an issue area with the rear brakes or diff myself.

 

[SRT Engineers]

Below is a quick primer on the brake ducts and a clarification of the earlier post - Ralph was correct at the time he made that video. We were originally planning on using the inlets on the roof for cooling to the differential. The roof air inlets are an interesting functional styling element and we wanted to put them to good use. As we went through development, we made a change with the ducts and diverted them to the rear brakes (air cooling for the differential is drawn from under the car with an inlet on the belly pan). The first rear brake outlet parts we made were far heavier than planned. Also, we did testing with and without the outlet and found there was only a minimal difference the outlet piece added. So in the end we deleted them from the 2013 Model Year. If you'll notice in the front of your Viper, the brake duct outlet is not very close to your brakes either but it provides a definite improvement of brake cooling (Gen 1 and Gen 2 owners will attest to this). For the 2014 Model Year cars we will be introducing the outlet into the car like the graphic shows. The part has been improved to reduce weight and the addition of the outlet will insure that the duct hoses are correctly positioned. The bottom line is that the Viper has very large rear brakes and keeping them cool has not been an issue. As with almost every car, the front brakes are the elements that need lots of air flow. Make sure they are always free from debris or blockage, and make sure your brake system has good brake fluid and is in proper order before going to the track!

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[NastyGTS]

The ducts have a start and finish on both sides... if yours are loose, that is not correct. They clamp at the inlets, and clamp to outlet tips in the rear splash shields.

You must be registered for see images attach

THANK YOU SRT ENGINEER FOR THIS DIAGRAM

AND there we have it...... Mine are definitely not correct. I am on my way to snap some photos now. So.....how does this leave the factory like this?

 

[NastyGTS]

Here is the passenger side:

You must be registered for see images attach

Here is the driver side:
( note: the hose is present......its just tucked inside)

You must be registered for see images attach

Please PM me a contact number with SRT.
I HIGHLY RECCOMEND THAT THE GEN V OWNERS CHECK THEIR VEHICLES

 

[ViperSmith]

Very strange

 

[DMan]

Wow, when was your car built, wondering if it was an early build, but amazing that could sneak down the line and clear quality like that.

Props to SRT for posting that diagram - helping you and proving their CEO has been incorrectly describing the car in reference to these ducts. I guess Ralph spends more time behind the wheel .. who wouldn't.