But...but...but, it has nannies!

[Mopar Steve]

Chuck I understand what your underlying point is, but your examples don't work. Just because cars with nannies crash, doesn't mean that cars with nannies are not safer and prevent some accidents. ABS for example allows a driver to jump on the brakes and without wheel lock-up still maintain the ability to steer around an accident. Does this work 100% of the time? NOPE not even close, does it help? You bet.

You are able to threshold brake, throttle steer and out drive the average driver. Many drivers don't posses the skills necessary to handle a car in a dangerous situation, and regardless of the training level these drivers never will rise to that level of driving. Because People will continue to out drive their abilities, these driving aids (nannies) are in place. Will these nannies prevent every accident? Nope. Will they help sometimes? enough to be a valid automotive improvement? You bet.

 

[swexlin]

Chuck I understand what your underlying point is, but your examples don't work. Just because cars with nannies crash, doesn't mean that cars with nannies are not safer and prevent some accidents. ABS for example allows a driver to jump on the brakes and without wheel lock-up still maintain the ability to steer around an accident. Does this work 100% of the time? NOPE not even close, does it help? You bet.

You are able to threshold brake, throttle steer and out drive the average driver. Many drivers don't posses the skills necessary to handle a car in a dangerous situation, and regardless of the training level these drivers never will rise to that level of driving. Because People will continue to out drive their abilities, these driving aids (nannies) are in place. Will these nannies prevent every accident? Nope. Will they help sometimes? enough to be a valid automotive improvement? You bet.

Very well stated Steve.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Chuck I understand what your underlying point is, but your examples don't work. Just because cars with nannies crash, doesn't mean that cars with nannies are not safer and prevent some accidents. ABS for example allows a driver to jump on the brakes and without wheel lock-up still maintain the ability to steer around an accident. Does this work 100% of the time? NOPE not even close, does it help? You bet.

ABS will save someone from a fenderbender but if they're going fast enough to kill themselves ABS wont help much.

Because People will continue to out drive their abilities, these driving aids (nannies) are in place. Will these nannies prevent every accident? Nope. Will they help sometimes? enough to be a valid automotive improvement? You bet.

You don't think PAC money has anything to do with it?

The nannies give the already "hey everybody, watch this" mindset (which anyone behind the wheel of a sports car has to varying degrees) a false sense of security and will cause as many accidents as they prevent. In fact, in light of the recent wave of accidents posted I'd say the evidence points to nannies causing more accidents than they prevent. And the only way to change that is to make the already too intrusive nannies so invasive that the sports car experience is completely diminished.

 

[Mopar Steve]

ABS will save someone from a fenderbender but if they're going fast enough to kill themselves ABS wont help much.

Like I said, it doesn't help 100% of the time, but it does help often.

You don't think PAC money has anything to do with it?

There's that political side we all hate. (this happens to be my protest, not the driving application) Sadly that still doesn't make it a bad idea.

....and will cause as many accidents as they prevent. In fact, in light of the recent wave of accidents posted I'd say the evidence points to nannies causing more accidents than they prevent...

The accidents are simple and easy to document, the "saves" are not. There are countless times when the nannies are able to aid in diminishing, preventing or eliminating an accident, and these occurrences are impossible to document.

 

[VIPER GTSR 91]

Moist nannies only add cost and weight to the car IMO especially in a high performance car. Guess they are good for low skilled or careless drivers though. Now we might have to deal with the tell all box in a few years.

 

[SlateEd]

The video of that Lambo crash is pretty enlightening, but I wish we had an onboard camera inside the Lambo also to be able to see exactly the point at which the "nannies" reached over and pushed the driver's foot all the way to the floor.
Do you think the "nannies" ask the driver if he is ready to exceed his skill level with this opportunity to show off, or do they just push the throttle all the way to 100 automatically, regardless of steering input, road conditions, and temperature?

take that same video with the same idiot person driving a Viper and you don't think the result would have been the same (or even worse)??? Of course it would have.

the presence of "nannies" does not embolden someone who is that careless - they're taught to be careless by so many other things in their lives for which consequences are non-existant. This is true for people who drive cars with nannies and without nannies. there are plenty of videos of Viper wrecks to post if you want (flimsy) proof of that.

as for the OP, the real issue here is the adult at Gotham who thought it would be okay to let these two kids drive F430s. RIP biker.

 

[Satchmo72]

I know I'm a new guy here but all of this nanny talk is really pointless. I say pointless because on the streets are not where these cars are built to go to the edge on and honestly, I don't want to be on the road with anyone who is going to try. The speeds these accidents happen during are not legal speeds. It's 25MPH on that street that the crash happened on for a reason, there is traffic.

With a few more years of driving experience and maturity, the instinct might have been to take it to the wall instead but how many times have you had to make that decision? I agree, It was a bad decision to put that young of kid behind the wheel of something so pulse revving as a Ferrari in the first place.

I told Indy-Steve last week that I might not go to the IMS Event this past weekend because I was not familiar enough with my new Viper (I had had it a whole 3 days), not necessarily just for my own safety but for the other guys around me too. I'm almost 40 I know I am not invincible!!! And since my job is driving (Outside Sales), I think I am halfway decent driver but still find myself in situations I am unsure of.

Know your limitations and know your car. The safest place to learn those limitations is the track, not on the street. Nannies are there to take a "oh ****" moment and turn it into a "Phhewww, that was close" Not to stop you from hitting an embankment or another car at 100MPH

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

The accidents are simple and easy to document, the "saves" are not. There are countless times when the nannies are able to aid in diminishing, preventing or eliminating an accident, and these occurrences are impossible to document.

If one had a model's production numbers before TC and after, total miles driven and the accidents for a given time span the saves could be deduced.

For example, the Ferrari 599 got TC in 2010 I believe. So, you take a sample of 2010 and newer 599s and compare them to a sample with the same parameters for pre-2010 599s. If the accidents are similar between the two samples then it would indicate that if TC did produce any saves they were a wash since all parameters were equal and thereby making TC worthless. However, if there is an overwhelming difference between the samples then there would be an indication in favor one way or the other.

Here's the most recent Ferrari 599 crash. Not sure if it was one of the years with TC or not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMcNY8yTvx0
No gore but might be kinda rough for those with weak stomachs.

 

[eucharistos]

that vid is wack

 

[GTS Dean]

Chuck I understand what your underlying point is, but your examples don't work. Just because cars with nannies crash, doesn't mean that cars with nannies are not safer and prevent some accidents. ABS for example allows a driver to jump on the brakes and without wheel lock-up still maintain the ability to steer around an accident. Does this work 100% of the time? NOPE not even close, does it help? You bet.

You are able to threshold brake, throttle steer and out drive the average driver. Many drivers don't posses the skills necessary to handle a car in a dangerous situation, and regardless of the training level these drivers never will rise to that level of driving. Because People will continue to out drive their abilities, these driving aids (nannies) are in place. Will these nannies prevent every accident? Nope. Will they help sometimes? enough to be a valid automotive improvement? You bet.

Most drivers don't care to even try and improve their skills. HP cars used to make quick meals of unskilled idiots. The word got around and most remaining buyers maintained a very healthy respect for physical limits. Now, HP cars are easy for any and every fool to get by with marginal skillsets. Fewer people die because of bad decisions and lack of skills than they used to. Thus, the bad gene pool is perpetuated.