Car & Driver does it again.......

[96GTS]

Nissan had the GT-R at some big event at Las Vegas Motor Speedway that started about a week ago, and I drove past the road course on the way to the drag strip. I was very unimpressed with the looks of the car, and to me, there was nothing to differentiate it between all other imports.

If going 200 (+) mph is the basis for a super car, then that's fine by me. I think the Veyron looks like a lima bean, and the Enzo is nowhere near as **** as a GTS. I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so I'll stick with my 12 year old Viper; I can work on the car myself and I can even pronounce the names of the fine craftsmen that built by hand.

 

[Paul Hawker]

"At Button Willow Raceway Park the GT-R was the third slowest around the track besting only the Corvette Z06. The Viper ACR smoked the other cars posting a lap time 4-seconds faster than the 911 GT2, and almost 6-seconds faster than the GT-R."

This summs up the experience for me.

Can't imagine anyone in a GT-R thinking their car is anything but a wanna-be.

 

[jessewallace]

the gtr looks like a little robo piggy thing-a-ma-jig. i don't care how gr8 it's supposed to be

 

[Flash1034]

Vipermann, You gotta send that letter to the magazine!

Flash

 

[jamie furman]

"At Button Willow Raceway Park the GT-R was the third slowest around the track besting only the Corvette Z06. The Viper ACR smoked the other cars posting a lap time 4-seconds faster than the 911 GT2, and almost 6-seconds faster than the GT-R."

This summs up the experience for me.

Can't imagine anyone in a GT-R thinking their car is anything but a wanna-be.

And I think to be fair if the Z06 would of had the tires the Viper and the GT2 had instead of runcraps I am sure it would of been up there behind the Viper and the GT-R would of been dead last.

 

[Vipermann]

Vipermann, You gotta send that letter to the magazine!

Flash

a) I'd like to see/verify this biased C&D comparison in print or on the web first

b) I suggest it (or something like it) from the VCA, but that would be better from a VCA official, not little old me...

 

[Boxer12]

When is the ACR gonna get on THE LIST....

Nordschleife fastest lap times - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[powder]

Scans: C&D: GT-R vs GT2 vs Viper ACR vs ZO6 - NAGTROC - The Nissan GT-R Owners Clubhttp://www.nagtroc.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=23102

 

[Viper ACR Lover 02]

Does it really matter? You guys know the power that the Viper has and has had since the beginning. Heck, that's free press right there: Look at those numbers. I am personally more proud of how the vehicle did in the tests than how a few people "rate" the vehicle. The car speaks for itself and it is not for everyone. Besides, with how long Viper has been dominating in the magazines, they are probably getting tired of explaining why.

 

[Vipermann]

What a joke.

They 'handed' the GT-R 5 points because it has a Back Seat (no joke); another 10 points for Features/Amenities; and another 27 points for Driver Comfort/Ergonomics/Interior styling vs. only 18 points for the ACR (these three subjective measures all end up influencing the same thing, and get far too much weight in the overall test). It's also funny that the ACR scored lowest on Engine NVH (the Lexus test), even though most owners of these cars will immediately put louder exhaust systems on them. Yet, after all that, they give the ACR a paltry 20 vs. 15 point advantage on Performance.

They also ran the lap times on the race track configuration choice with what appears to be the most possible tight-turn configuration (no long straights), but the Viper still won easily.

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

The title for the article is the " Ultimate Track Test. " Someone at the magazine has forgotten that carrying the kiddies in the back seat to get groceries has absolutely nothing to do with the title, nor does trunk space. We need to get the editors to understand that when using the English language, it is imperative to follow through with correct description of what the article implied.After getting my copy at home , last night, I read how the Viper was the fastest in all categories, except top speed, stopped better than a 200K car with ceramic brakes, had the fastest lap times by an enormous stretch and was even the quickest through a slalom. Logic is obviously devoid at the Headquarters of Hacchette - Fillipachi, INC.

 

[ViperTony]

The title for the article is the " Ultimate Track Test. " Someone at the magazine has forgotten that carrying the kiddies in the back seat to get groceries has absolutely nothing to do with the title, nor does trunk space. We need to get the editors to understand that when using the English language, it is imperative to follow through with correct description of what the article implied.After getting my copy at home , last night, I read how the Viper was the fastest in all categories, except top speed, stopped better than a 200K car with ceramic brakes, had the fastest lap times by an enormous stretch and was even the quickest through a slalom. Logic is obviously devoid at the Headquarters of Hacchette - Fillipachi, INC.

Bill, very well said. You should email your comments to the editor and see if they have the ballz to post and respond to it in the next edition.

 

[sbkim]

Don't forget - just last month, C&D rated the new M3 over 911TT and GTR. So by their logic M3>(911TT, GTR, ACR, GT2).

 

[pe5787]

Don't forget - just last month, C&D rated the new M3 over 911TT and GTR. So by their logic M3>(911TT, GTR, ACR, GT2).

I just canclled my ACR order. Going to get an M3 and spank everyone. I hope you know im not serious.

 

[Warfang]

I just canclled my ACR order. Going to get an M3 and spank everyone. I hope you know im not serious.

That's an outrage! Hand over your sarcasm license!

 

[red heat]

when it comes to lap times at the track, 4 seconds is an eternity

 

[mad0953]

I just ripped my C & D renewal notice in half and wiped my asp with it. Those BMW lovers at that rag should be embarassed as to their lack of brain cells. Even their cute little natty answers in the "Letters to the Editor" section are getting tiresome. I'm done.

 

[bluestreak]

Don't forget - just last month, C&D rated the new M3 over 911TT and GTR. So by their logic M3>(911TT, GTR, ACR, GT2).

C&D are only making themselves the laughing stock of the enthusiast world. But it's awesome because simultaneously they are making Road & Track the laughing stock of the enthusiast world.


R&T Tested a GT-R and claimed they ran 1:56 in it on that same configuration, but the same factory NISSAN driver couldnt beat tony swan nor whoever drove this time in the Z06. Sandbagging clown!!!!!

And here comes C&D rating the M3 over a ACR-GT2-Z06 and GT-R. WTH!!!!!!!!!
Pure retard I tell you. Not only that but C&D previously lied about the GT-R's trap speed by over adjusting it to 124. So how many times have we seen anything in that ballpark range since (111,115,116,114)


I think C&D's primary demographic has become soccer moms, because those are the ONLY people on the planet that would choose the cars in that order. I see they dont write to people with balls anymore.

 

[xjrguy]

Don't forget - just last month, C&D rated the new M3 over 911TT and GTR. So by their logic M3>(911TT, GTR, ACR, GT2).

Hahaha, I said this on page two!

LOL!!


ROTFLMAO!!

I remember years ago this same piece of crap magazine pitted a mid level 3 series (200HP) against a Mercedes CLK420 (275HP), and the MB was like $20,000 more and had a V8 vs. the I6 in the BMW.

For some reason MB didn't send the CLK320 like they were supposed to.

Now, for all intents and purposes the CLK420 is a superior car in every way to the BMW, but stupid C & D rated the BMW over the Benz.

That was back in 2001 or something like that and after I read that crap I never took them seriously ever again.

Idiots

 

[RTTTTed]

I LOVE IT!

The reported 2.9 0-60 times were either a scam or Bull. The "beats Viper" is Bull! The 11.5 sec. quarter mile times are Bull!

It sure took long enough for the truth to come out. Hopefully someone posted these "real life" figures on the Nissan and the Audi forums since we had to put up with all their Bull on here.

Just like I predicted to those losers (and the R8 losers) the Viper reigns supreme.

They should have tested the vette and the GTR with the traction control turned on so all the "need TC to go fast" dummies could see exactly how slow they go.

Ted

 

[PAvenomRT/10]

Having just read the article last night, I can say I was also a little surprised until you read the categories that were rated to determine the overall winner. The GTR won because it was the rated the most comfortable car, with more passenger space, with excellent performance over a variety of road conditions due to the 4 wheel drive. The raters indicated that it was least impressive looking car of the group but also the least expensive. If performance were the only factor the Viper would have won but they rated the Viper as the least comforatable car of the group. They did state that the aero features and chassis of the ACR were instrumental in its fast lap times relative to the others.
PAvenomRT/10

 

[Vipermann]

Sent to C&D today, as follows (but I doubt they'll print it):

"Ultimate Bogus Track Test?

Dear Car and Driver Magazine,

We would like to call your attention to the name of your fine magazine: CAR and DRIVER. We've long admired how your magazine was dedicated to car and driving enthusiasts. It has been observed how your magazine makes no pretense of higher importance to vehicle characteristics favoring passengers, or pets, or luggage, or say ...cup holders. It is a magazine dedicated to the collective love affair for automotive excellence, performance and the driving experience thereby made possible. So when your fine magazine does a comparison of extreme performance automobiles (aka, The Ultimate Track Test), at the pinnacle of performance for the entire automotive spectrum, we turn our full attention with keen interest and anticipation of such a doctrine.

Candidly, we fully expected our beloved 2008 Viper ACR to dominate all comers. It was built for just such a purpose. With a track lap time of 1.55.7 it beat the next nearest competitor by a full 4 seconds per lap (on a track configuration with relatively short straights). It dominated in nearly all other performance categories, as well. But shockingly, it appears C&D magazine has taken on a new automotive focus. Your magazine appears to now be compelled to dismiss supreme automotive performance. Despite the Viper’s clear achievements, you deemed not to recognize its superiority. With this test being among the utmost in such automobiles, it would now seem C&D is abandoning its roots, abandoning the priority it has placed upon performance, and giving way to a more general concept of transportation. Thus, we respectfully suggest a new name for your magazine: TRANSPORTATION and PASSENGERS. Just think of the broad new subject matter now possible once of you have officially freed your magazine of any emphasis on performance…

Respectfully submitted,
'Vipermann' (Proud member of The Viper Club of America)"

 

[RTTTTed]

Having just read the article last night, I can say I was also a little surprised until you read the categories that were rated to determine the overall winner. The GTR won because it was the rated the most comfortable car, with more passenger space, with excellent performance over a variety of road conditions due to the 4 wheel drive. The raters indicated that it was least impressive looking car of the group but also the least expensive. If performance were the only factor the Viper would have won but they rated the Viper as the least comforatable car of the group. They did state that the aero features and chassis of the ACR were instrumental in its fast lap times relative to the others.
PAvenomRT/10

Maybe they should have mentioned that the cheap Viper has a radio, is faster to 60, faster in the quarter and has a higher top speed?

The Viper performance really ***** in ice and snow, but they didn't test for that? Makes no sense why they would test the ACR if they wanted to test for comfort. In the snow my Stealth wins all catagories, but it doesn't compare well to the Viper during summer. Yah, I hate the a/c because it's not automatic and digital climate controlled, but ... I wouldn't not buy the car because of that. I also wouldn't buy the 'other' car for it's heater.

Too bad they don't actually test performance cars and rate them for their performance? Test the minivans against the minivans. Why not test the Winter cars against the winter cars?

Conclusion; Buy the Viper for performance and buy the R8 and GTR for your winter/DD car. Too bad they won't tow the Viper on a trailer.

Ted

 

[SnakeBitten]

Clearly C&D hasnt been about strickly performance since the late 90's when cars like Vipers could actually win tests outright just based on the GTS absolute **********. Ive since seen the change in C&D's focus. A Viper will never win a comparo ever again because the focus has shifted from mainly performance to driver coddling and nannies. I really hate C&D and havent subscribed since 2001. The BMW bias coupled with the idiotic cup holder, back seat etc nonsense just became unbearable.

Ultimate Track Test indicates the winner MUST be the one with the ULTIMATE TRACK TIMES. When you dominate a 200k car built for the track by more than 4 seconds and get relegated to 3rd because of "comparatively unfriendly ON ROAD behavior and lack of a back seat" in a test called the ULTIMATE TRACK TEST whats really left to say. Credibility is something C&D has lost years ago. Im not surprised at the outcome. They couldnt even give the Viper its full due vs the Z06 by insinuating that the Viper needed race rubber and bigger footprint than the Z06 on its runflats to pull 1.08. The 6 second *** ****** the ACR did to the Z06 on a short track apparently didnt register to the editor when he was writing the sentence about the g loading of the two. I wouldnt bother with sending them any letters. They know what they are doing and unless your letters are accompanied by a large sum of mulah you are wasting your time with these sell outs.

 

[Stealth]

They should have tested the SRT Coupe instead of the ACR. I think it would also have spanked the crowd, albeit with a bit slower lap time due to grip and downforce deficits to the ACR.

 

[SnakeBitten]

They should have tested the SRT Coupe instead of the ACR. I think it would also have spanked the crowd, albeit with a bit slower lap time due to grip and downforce deficits to the ACR.

Dont know about spanking the crowd. The ACR may make these cars look like playthings but a GT2 is not a plaything for any car save the ACR so far. I believe the SRT10 would have slotted slightly behind the GT2 assuming the driver was competant. Remember this is just one test by the loons at C&D. These are the slowest acceleration times by a very large margin for the GT2 and by default I have to suspect the GT2's track times as well . This test is not indicative of what a GT2 is ultimately capable of. Other mags have gotten low 11's between 128-130mph in the 1/4 for the GT2. Dont be surprised if other test by other mags or owners have the GT2 a bit closer to the ACR on any given track. The GT2 should be faster in a straight line but the ACR will own it on a track stock to stock.

 

[ctr2]

With the slow delivery of the '08 acr's, will they delay the '09 acr's or call the late 08's, '09 models ? It ***** if you get your '08 acr and next week your buddy might be getting his '09 acr. What about the one year depreciation factor ?

 

[RTTTTed]

So this "comparisson testing" could put the Viper behind all ordinary cheapo cars? Like the Firefly, Prius and Camry?

Not sure why they even bother to test our "uncomfortable, short stopping excellent handling cars." Why not have a safety test so that the vette could win because of it's non-spill cupholders. LOL.

I guess they think that there is no advantage to higher power, bigger brakes or awesome handling? They'd probably rate SUVs and Pickups as winners. Where I live you hit Deer and Moose in SUVs and pickups. Performance cars are able to stop in nearly half the distance and even drive around animals that put SUVs and Pickups in the bodyshop, like my wife's Escape (got a Deer). Turns out the Escape is built so well that hitting a small Deer crumpled the front fender which pinched the wiring harness (they put the PDM at the front of the engine compartment). That got pinched and caused the tranny to loose hydraulic pressure which meant that the tranny had big slipage and now the idiots are trying to tell me that I wore out one clutch pack in the tranny, then hit a deer and am trying to scam them.

And the Ford "technitian" is supposed to know his business? I had to show him where the main wiring harness goes inside the crunched front fender before he'd actually admit that wires could have been shorted and caused the tranny problem. He said he checked for codes, no codes - no electronic problems. Idiot!

Ted

 

[Warfang]

So this "comparisson testing" could put the Viper behind all ordinary cheapo cars? Like the Firefly, Prius and Camry?

Not sure why they even bother to test our "uncomfortable, short stopping excellent handling cars." Why not have a safety test so that the vette could win because of it's non-spill cupholders. LOL.

I guess they think that there is no advantage to higher power, bigger brakes or awesome handling? They'd probably rate SUVs and Pickups as winners. Where I live you hit Deer and Moose in SUVs and pickups. Performance cars are able to stop in nearly half the distance and even drive around animals that put SUVs and Pickups in the bodyshop, like my wife's Escape (got a Deer). Turns out the Escape is built so well that hitting a small Deer crumpled the front fender which pinched the wiring harness (they put the PDM at the front of the engine compartment). That got pinched and caused the tranny to loose hydraulic pressure which meant that the tranny had big slipage and now the idiots are trying to tell me that I wore out one clutch pack in the tranny, then hit a deer and am trying to scam them.

And the Ford "technitian" is supposed to know his business? I had to show him where the main wiring harness goes inside the crunched front fender before he'd actually admit that wires could have been shorted and caused the tranny problem. He said he checked for codes, no codes - no electronic problems. Idiot!

Ted

geez... not to get off topic, but guys like me that aren't completely mechanically inclined can get sooo screwed.

 

[black mamba1]

There are people who dislike the Yankees b/c they win too much. There are people who dislike Tiger Woods b/c he wins too much. There are people who dislike the Patriots b/c they win too much.

And there are people who will dislike or find fault w/ the Viper b/c it wins too much. When the Z06 out nudged the Gen 3 the rags were quick to give the Z06 the King of the Hill award, rag after rag...and deservedly so.

The Gen 4 Viper has raised the bar to a standard that cannot be met, not even by $350,000 Lambos. The ACR has taken the competition to an entirely different level. No car, and I mean no street legal car south of $200k can touch the ACR in any cateragory. But guess what, Cerebus is not popular w/ the rags, and not even with us. But asking people to judge fairly is simply too tall a task...just look at whats happening in politics! (sorry, I couldnt resist!)